Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

[Todman]

But the discussion hasn't gone anywhere in about 50 pages.

They are not refugees once they leave a safe country and should then not be treated as such. The treatment of refugees is on thing, the treatment of uninvited migrants is something else.

 

[Showbags]

I don't think anyone has suggested the process for identifying and re-settling refugees is speedy, even if it is somewhat expedient. A decision was probably made that a period spent in detention was at least much of a muchness compared to time spent in a refugee camp waiting to have claims assessed.

It's clear that this discussion has gone as far as it can go. There are those on here who want more open immigration policies across the world, with the easier movement and resettlement of people. There are also those on here who want an immigration program which is purely beneficial to ourselves, and a strong border protection policy to protect ourselves against threats, both real and perceived.

But the discussion hasn't gone anywhere in about 50 pages.

Correct. The conservatives, as is their natural reaction to every decision, come at the issue from a 'what is this going to do for me' type mentality.

You are being ridiculous now, the people smuggler clients who arrived to rook the Australian system had flown half way around the world on passports which mysteriously disappeared en route from Indonesia.

You are considered an undocumented arrival if you do not have a valid state issued visa. It would be completely counter intuitive for the 90% or more who are found to be genuine refugees to purposely arrive without valid id. The ones that do destroy their ids are coached by smugglers to ensure when passing through countries that have not signed and ratified the UNHCR that they aren't sent back to their place of persecution.

When the government of the day stacks the assessment boards with sycophants then the 90% result was hardly surprising.

I hear this claim all the time. Are these people sycophants only because they reach an assessment you would prefer they didn't?

 

[romeohwho]

No - that's what people smuggler customers do when they are targeting countries for citizenship not safety.

Unless the Irish you are talking about are making bogus claims for asylum to get citizenship then they have nought to do with the issue.

Visa overstayers who get caught are placed in detention and deported. It's usually much easier ti deport them than boat arrivals because they have arrived on legal passports and visas where required.

I am sorry 'not a guru', and maybe you are genuine but I suspect your selective outrage re 'cheaters' reflects more about your bleak view of the universe, not mine.

 

[Maggie5]

There are those on here who want more open immigration policies across the world, with the easier movement and resettlement of people. There are also those on here who want an immigration program which is purely beneficial to ourselves, and a strong border protection policy to protect ourselves against threats, both real and perceived.

I'll take door three - a more humane and transparent process on asylum seekers.

 

[Todman]

I hear this claim all the time. Are these people sycophants only because they reach an assessment you would prefer they didn't?

It's always political

 

[romeohwho]

When the government of the day stacks the assessment boards with sycophants then the 90% result was hardly surprising.

lol dutton -Amnesty International =bullies
Toddy - reasonable people doing their job =sycophants
doctors upholding their 'oath' = political stunt
I can see the beauty of the logic emerging.

 

[GuruJane]

Correct. The conservatives, as is their natural reaction to every decision, come at the issue from a 'what is this going to do for me' type mentality.



You are considered an undocumented arrival if you do not have a valid state issued visa. It would be completely counter intuitive for the 90% or more who are found to be genuine refugees to purposely arrive without valid id. The ones that do destroy their ids are coached by smugglers to ensure when passing through countries that have not signed and ratified the UNHCR that they aren't sent back to their place of persecution.

You are being ridiculous now. All boat arrivals from Indonesia had to fly to either Malaysia or Djakarta to catch boats. They didn't need visas for those countries but they certainly needed passports to fly from the originating airport and also while in transit.

They are told by smugglers to destroy passports and throw away their mobile phones when on the boats to make id very difficult for DFAT and thus ensure they get waved through.

 

[Xsess]

I personally think we should tear up the UN convention we stupidly signed up for in the 50's. Maintain our own refugee program if we must, but put our own criteria around it. Its obvious the refugee convention is a rort, a complete shammozzle.

 

[Gough]

http://smartraveller.gov.au/advice/kyrgyzstan
404ed, coincidence?

 

[Todman]

I personally think we should tear up the UN convention we stupidly signed up for in the 50's. Maintain our own refugee program if we must, but put our own criteria around it. Its obvious the refugee convention is a rort, a complete shammozzle.

Far better idea is to withdrew from the UN completely.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

http://smartraveller.gov.au/advice/kyrgyzstan
404ed, coincidence?

https://web.archive.org/web/2015033...raveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/Kyrgyzstan

• We advise you to exercise a high degree of caution in the Kyrgyz Republic because of the potential for civil unrest, the threat of terrorism and high levels of crime.
• You should pay close attention to your personal security at all times and monitor the media about possible new safety or security risks.
• You should avoid demonstrations, street rallies and public gatherings as they may turn violent.
• We advise you to reconsider your need to travel to the Kyrgyz-Uzbek and Kyrgyz-Tajik border areas (in the south and south-west) and the Ferghana Valley. The security situation in these areas is volatile and there are frequent incidents of violent crime, varying levels of civil unrest and reports of terrorist activity. The affected area includes the cities of Osh, Jalalabad and Batken. Landmines are also a risk in uncontrolled border areas.

 

[CM86]

Lol

 

[midorigreenwood]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-02/record-migrants-crossed-mediterranean-in-october-un/6906826

More than 218,000 asylum seekers crossed the Mediterranean to Europe in October — a monthly record and more than during the whole of 2014, the United Nations says.

"Last month was a record month for arrivals," UN refugee agency spokesman Adrian Edwards said, pointing out that "arrivals in October paralleled the entire 2014".

wow.

 

[Gough]

Stopping the boats is really helping the refugee problem.

 

[midorigreenwood]

Stopping the boats is really helping the refugee problem.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-02/record-migrants-crossed-mediterranean-in-october-un/6906826

The ballooning number of crossings has had dire consequences, with the numbers of deaths piling up by the day.

Some 3,440 people have died or gone missing trying to cross the Mediterranean to Europe so far this year, according to UNHCR numbers last week.

 

[Xsess]

Stopping the boats is really helping the refugee problem.

Agreed. This way our intake is entirely made up of refugees and not overrun with economic country shoppers. Its a shame about the civil war in Syria though. Perhaps the UN should get off its arse and do something about it.

 

[romeohwho]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-02/record-migrants-crossed-mediterranean-in-october-un/6906826

And let's quote this part too:

'The October figures show that despite the increasingly harrowing conditions at sea at the onset of winter, asylum seekers from Syria and other trouble spots continue to pile into boats heading west, fearing that Europe is about to close its borders.

Among the more than 600,000 asylum seekers who have crossed to Greece since the beginning of the year, 94 per cent come from the world's top 10 refugee-producing countries.'

Desperate times call for desperate risks perhaps?

 

[Gough]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-02/record-migrants-crossed-mediterranean-in-october-un/6906826

That's 1.5% of people attempting the voyage, and you'd deny the refugees a chance to reach safety because there's a 2% chance they might not make it?

 

[midorigreenwood]

That's 1.5% of people attempting the voyage, and you'd deny the refugees a chance to reach safety because there's a 2% chance they might not make it?

What do you think is going to happen as more and more people takes the risk?

Organised crime gets rich, more people drown and destination countries have no hope of integrating them into society.

Sweden is already housing ppl in tents.

The majority of ppl taking the gamble are secondary movements such as from camps in Jordan and turkey.

This is where our attention should be focused.

 

[Gough]

What do you think is going to happen as more and more people takes the risk?

Organised crime gets rich, more people drown and destination countries have no hope of integrating them into society.

Sweden is already housing ppl in tents.

The majority of ppl taking the gamble are secondary movements such as from camps in Jordan and turkey.

This is where our attention should be focused.

I thought it was the drownings at sea that were your concern, now your telling me that it's no really that at all but something else.

 

[midorigreenwood]

Typical

Resort to trolling when failing to put up a coherent argument.

 

[Gough]

Well originally it's drowning at sea, now it's how we are to deal with the increased numbers of refugees? You're all over the shop like a crazy woman's knitting, and neither problem will be solved by closing the borders anyway.

 

[Lester Burnham]

That's 1.5% of people attempting the voyage, and you'd deny the refugees a chance to reach safety because there's a 2% chance they might not make it?

And of those attempting the voyage only 3% are actually refugees?

A largely Muslim charity recently reviewed the work its people had been doing to relieve the misery and squalor on the Sangatte refugee camp in Calais. A worker with the Human Relief Foundation visited the notorious ‘Jungle’ encampment and concluded, with some alarm, that 97 per cent were economic migrants rather than refugees. Further, they were almost exclusively fit young men who were not fleeing danger at all and were not in the least desperate.​

http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/on-migration-simon-schama-doesnt-even-have-an-argument/

 

[rodney hoo]

Agreed. This way our intake is entirely made up of refugees and not overrun with economic country shoppers. Its a shame about the civil war in Syria though. Perhaps the UN should get off its arse and do something about it.

I thought you were against the United Nations, if we had listened to the United Nations in the first place we would be a lot better off or do you forget the weapons of mass destruction war we had to have. The United Nations warned against this war which is where this has all started from. Now the whole region is absolutely a total basket case and there getting bombed the s**t out off and you call them country shoppers because there trying to get to safety for there families sake.

 

[Xsess]

I thought you were against the United Nations, if we had listened to the United Nations in the first place we would be a lot better off or do you forget the weapons of mass destruction war we had to have. The United Nations warned against this war which is where this has all started from. Now the whole region is absolutely a total basket case and there getting bombed the s**t out off and you call them country shoppers because there trying to get to safety for there families sake.

Except the refugees are the result of civil war in Syria. We never invaded Syria. We invaded Iraq and removed a tyrant, had the country stable until Obama's monumental folly of removing US occupying forces.