slicedndiced
Premiership Player
- Banned
- #5,076
Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)
- Thread starter Gough
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
If the circumstances are untypical, how did the 50K get from the other side of world to Indonesia?
romeoh
Norm Smith Medallist
- Oct 23, 2011
- 6,199
- 4,083
- AFL Club
- Geelong
? Are you talking about 50,000 since 2007? So you know the circumstances of all those people?
Not many people leave their homeland just for the laughs GJ-can you understand that the people who do so generally have good reasons/ motives?
- Sep 18, 2013
- 17,752
- 11,820
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
The circumstances were them arriving in Australia without passports, ids/travel documents - after flying from the other side world and going through half a dozen passport controls.
So how did they get here ?
Very good human interest story, but the following questions have not been addressed by the journalist. Did the two boys arrive on the boat without passports or travel docs? If so, how did they travel from Vietnam to Indonesia? Who paid the people smugglers for their ticket?
Given this would have been a considerable sum,why have the boys not been able to contact their benefactor or their family?
Maggie5
Moderator
- Moderator
- #5,082
Any chance that the following story influenced the co-operation of the Indian government to take back AS?
Today's announcement from Greg Hunt.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...al-mine-gets-canberra-nod-20140728-zxl23.html
"The federal government has approved a giant Queensland coalmine that it says will generate as much as $300 billion for the economy, but which environmental groups say will contribute to a “carbon bomb” and risk causing significant damage to the Great Barrier Reef".
"The 36 conditions, which include offsets of about 30,000 hectares for habitat destroyed, water returns for the Great Artesian Basin and $1 million for further research in protecting threatened species, will ensure the mine owner, India’s Adani, “meets the highest environmental standards”, Mr Hunt said in a media statement".
Today's announcement from Greg Hunt.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...al-mine-gets-canberra-nod-20140728-zxl23.html
"The federal government has approved a giant Queensland coalmine that it says will generate as much as $300 billion for the economy, but which environmental groups say will contribute to a “carbon bomb” and risk causing significant damage to the Great Barrier Reef".
"The 36 conditions, which include offsets of about 30,000 hectares for habitat destroyed, water returns for the Great Artesian Basin and $1 million for further research in protecting threatened species, will ensure the mine owner, India’s Adani, “meets the highest environmental standards”, Mr Hunt said in a media statement".
romeoh
Norm Smith Medallist
- Oct 23, 2011
- 6,199
- 4,083
- AFL Club
- Geelong
How do you know about the routes these people took to get here? Regardless, whether they drive by boat or by plane, they are asylum seekers and the vast majority of them are processed and accepted as genuine refugees.
And the vast majority, more than 87%, arrive here without passports/ids or travel docs after taking international flights to Indonesia which is why they get accepted as genuine refugees. That's the people smuggler scam as described in the lawyers weekly that Midori linked to. The whole point of it.
Elroo
Premiership Player
- Jul 2, 2014
- 3,993
- 6,808
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
Fabricated figures are always fabricated.
slicedndiced
Premiership Player
- Banned
- #5,087
That would be because there is an extremely good chance that those people are now in a Vietnamese gulag, or have bullet behind their ear.
Your total lack of appreciation of the real life implications of this are as alarming as they are completely ignorant.
- Banned
- #5,088
It has been on the cards. Isn't it incredibly difficult to try and sue the government over policy decisions like this.
romeoh
Norm Smith Medallist
- Oct 23, 2011
- 6,199
- 4,083
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Given the number of asylum seekers in the world, Australia has taken stuff all refugees over the last few years. Again, most people are reluctant to leave their homeland, regardless of how tough things are there, because family and culture are strong ties. Hence anyone who makes the decision to leave their own country is probably desperate in one way or another. I suspect most of the people who have no id's etc are genuine, but perhaps there are a few who just want to live here. So what? They might make fab citizens. No need to be sacrifice genuine refugees because of a few indeterminates. Given the paltry number we accept, its a minor issue we can manage. The govt has it in its powers to accept the boat arrivals, as well as processing plane arrivals-the policy re this is easily adapted so nobody 'jumps a queue'. Given the not surprising outpouring of sympathy you showed towards Australians suffering, perhaps you could extend the same sympathy towards people whose lives are constantly and seriously in dire straits?
romeoh
Norm Smith Medallist
- Oct 23, 2011
- 6,199
- 4,083
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Well can't really see that many coming here can you? Its not like it is easy to get here. Most asylum seekers have very few options in terms of money/education etc. That's why places like Pakistan, Kenya get so many refugees -they are accessible. Are you happy for these countries to bear a far greater 'burden' of an ongoing situation that isn't going away? It just makes it someone else's problem and those places are far more poorly equipped to take refugees than us. I suspect we could take quite a few more and not be too troubled.
Its not a question of being 'happy' its simply a reflection of reality. I would argue those who can only make it as far as Pakistan and Kenya refugee camps are in more dire straits then those who make it all the way to Australia.
Judging by the lack of public housing, rapidly rising house/rent prices and stresses on utilities (traffic, water, etc) now the idea that we would 'not be too troubled' by more people seems a bit of a stretch. Combine that with fact that much of our current immigration intake come through the 457 visa program or skilled migration (so have useful skills and a job lined up) and are ready to be productive right away and it still stretches the system does not bode well for a significant numbers of unskilled and unprepared people entering the community.
Last edited:
romeoh
Norm Smith Medallist
- Oct 23, 2011
- 6,199
- 4,083
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Yep but perhaps we could cutback on some of the 457, (which seems to me to be at least equally open to exploitation-eg clearly unskilled people opening small business they know nothing about in order to gain access to permanency)or international students etc and take more refugees. Yes -conditions in Australia are not going to get better in near future, but that still does not address the issue of where these people go. You can't imply those in more dire needs should be accepted on one hand, and then say things are too tough to take more in any case, on the other.
The people who go to Pakistan might be in more dire needs, although not convinced of that in all cases-persecuted refugees can have some money.( political etc). But that also doesn't mean we don't accept those in need who get this far. That is a different issue. And are you suggesting we turn back those who make the costly and dangerous journey here and go over there and collect the more in need-its complex enough with our current scenario? Some practicalities have to apply.
Widespread 457 abuse is non existant. There have been a number of studies on this.
Actually I can. I would prefer it if our current refugee intake focused on those who have skills we need and could fit into our community with a miniumum of disruption. Our resources are stretched thin as is. But if we were to take on asylum seekers I would prefer it to those with a greater chance of being in need.
I can't see why we can't have a preference for those with a greater humanitarian need. Asylum seekers should be judged on humanitarian grounds not those who play the system best.
Last edited:
Jiska
Moderator
- Moderator
- #5,095
Here comes the alarmists with the "we're going to get swamped". It was the same reaction in the 50's and 60's with the Greeks and Italians. The same response in the 80's with Chinese. The reality with those groups, however, was that they were able to walk down the street and submit an application form and wait. Many of the asylum seekers arriving on our shores are from war torn countries. Ever seen blood diamond? Pretty sanitised perception of reality.
At the end of the day, Australia is the same geographical size, or close enough to, the United States, and our population is minuscule in comparison. Before someone brings up the desert argument, I give you Las Vegas.
In anticipation of unemployment and welfare cop out arguments, again, the Greeks and the Italians were the same, but they ran the milk bars, drove the cabs, cooked at the fish and chips shops and worked their way in to and up in society. Naturally it takes time to adjust and gain the skills when you go to a new country.
The amount of bludgers and people trying to rort the system is probably lesser than those born here, in percentage terms.
The reality is that ten times as many Europeans overstay their legally attained Visas every year than those arriving on our shores with nothing.
We have an amazing country and we should be proud to welcome people from all walks of life here. At the end of the day, we all came here seeking asylum, we just had bigger and better weapons than those who owned the land when we invaded.
So what exactly is your arguement? Don't worry about it she'll be right?
Lets ignore the critical shortage of housing now and the infrastructure pressure on major cities, Jiska has it all covered.
romeoh
Norm Smith Medallist
- Oct 23, 2011
- 6,199
- 4,083
- AFL Club
- Geelong
I don't give a toss bag what the studies say-there is plenty of advantage being taken of 457!
Of course the greater need should be met first but in pragmatic terms, some of what you suggest is quite unrealistic. And the line re 'those who play the system best' -well that scenario is greatly exaggerated.
Borry
Protected Species
- Aug 15, 2004
- 8,738
- 2,171
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- South Sydney
It's a bit naive to think that we can support 300 million because there's a city in the desert in the US.
They have far more arable land, and can afford to have cities like Vegas.
I am generally in support of the slicedndiceds in this thread more though. The way some have hijacked the debate with their brand of xenophobia is appalling. No problem with those brits that overstay their visas but if they're not white......
They have far more arable land, and can afford to have cities like Vegas.
I am generally in support of the slicedndiceds in this thread more though. The way some have hijacked the debate with their brand of xenophobia is appalling. No problem with those brits that overstay their visas but if they're not white......
- Banned
- #5,099
the brits get given the boot easily when stay over the time. Those who chuck their papers don't and cost society much time and cash.
slicedndiced
Premiership Player
- Banned
- #5,100
Why do you focus on the cities?
Country towns are dying everywhere. The housing is there, as is the infrastructure.
Cheers mate, but don't be fooled into this whole "inland soil is not arable" notion.
It's only that way because of a lack of water in general, and fertilizer is not uncommon.
If any soil could be called unproductive, it would be the sand plains of WA, and that is one of the largest grain producing regions in the world. Soil more inland from there is far more productive if provided with the same attention.With a bit of foresight and added infrastructure, you could make many inland towns highly productive and profitable.
- Status
Similar threads
