Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

[Roobs321]

Personally I can't see Abbott losing the next federal election, barring unforseen developments. Labor's current opposition leader and deputy will not be winning them an election. Regardless of what the polls say, after a few terms one generally develops a feel for this sort of thing.

 

[Dan26]

Latham was an opposition leader and Rudd, god knows how, maintained his election winning margin. Your boy was elected on a landslide that has disappeared inside six months. I'm not a one term Tony sorta guy, fingers crossed though, I tend to agree that most governments are given two terms, but he has a lot of work to do to convince the voting public that he's not just some kind of overgrown, Sydney Uni, Young Liberal Party member whose boned up on a bit of Friedman between lectures.

The landslide "disappearing" has more to do with the government needing to make unpopular decisions. Do you think their third budge before the next election will be that unpopular? It was easy for Rudd - he came into power with billions in the bank from the Liberals, after a thankless public stupidly voted them out.

I always think its a good sign if you're behind in the polls after your first year.

If you have a huge 56-44 lead like Rudd it generally means you havn't made tough decisions and /or have been a populist trying to please everyone at the same time. Now, as you know, you CAN'T please everyone all the time, so if the polls say you can please everyone (like with Rudd) it will be unsustainable as the public eventually work you out.

If the government of the day is behind in the polls after year one it means, usually that the worst is behind then, and they can build towards the next election.

Now I think Abbott is basically a good decent guy. I genuinely see him as likeable. I think the public will see the real Tony (and that IS the real Tony) after three years in the job. If you're a prick and a c*nt like Rudd you can't hide it for three years. The public worked him out after two. Those that don't follow politics see the unlikeable stereotype about Abbott, but in reality he's a good guy, and you can't hide that forever.

And, as I said earlier, you can't deny that he has shown leadership, and unity. That's just a fact. Those things make a good PM. Howard had it. Hawke had it. Abbott has it.

Keating, Rudd, Fraser and Gillard did not.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Of course he has been statesman like. Anyone who has been following politics closely, particularly his overseas trips will have noticed this.

I know left wing people WANT him to fail, but you will have to accept, whether you like it or not, that he is a genuine leader as PM, and, therefore is doing a good job in what is always the toughest year of any government - their first.



Oh rubbish. Sigh. This kis just more left0wing crap. It wouldn't matter what Abbott did until now, you would have said the exact same thing. Compared to Rudd and Gillard, Abbott has already exceeded them as PM, and he's only had the job for the year. Consider his successful overseas trips, his united government (there are no "off field" leadership speculation or any of that crap that plagued Labor)

It's so obvious when a Labor fan boy is posting. They will be critical of Abbott no matter what. I repeat no matter what.

That's why I hate the left. So many of them don't choose a principle, they choose a side. So even when Abbott clearly displays good leadership and unity, they still won't accept it because he's not on their "side".... that's pathetic. I can accept that Bob Hawke was a good PM, because he was a leader who united his government and the country. The left can never bring themselves to admit a conservative does it well. They are bad losers.



Rubbish. 19 years in parliament including 11 of those in a previous government. He's about the right age - not too old, not to young. He has a perfect grounding for the top office.

Just because he represents an ideology was has given the world freedom, prosperity and liberty (all things you are apparently against) doesn't mean he's not fit for the job.

As I mentioned above, the left-wing media knows it. You don't see those budgie smuggler cartoons anymore. Abbott is now seen as respected as the PM. I've noticed a change in the way the media and the populace talk about him. And shock horror, he's not that bad! Who would've though!

I'm sorry what ideology would that be?

 

[romeoh]

Of course he has been statesman like. Anyone who has been following politics closely, particularly his overseas trips will have noticed this.

I know left wing people WANT him to fail, but you will have to accept, whether you like it or not, that he is a genuine leader as PM, and, therefore is doing a good job in what is always the toughest year of any government - their first.



Oh rubbish. Sigh. This kis just more left0wing crap. It wouldn't matter what Abbott did until now, you would have said the exact same thing. Compared to Rudd and Gillard, Abbott has already exceeded them as PM, and he's only had the job for the year. Consider his successful overseas trips, his united government (there are no "off field" leadership speculation or any of that crap that plagued Labor)

It's so obvious when a Labor fan boy is posting. They will be critical of Abbott no matter what. I repeat no matter what.

That's why I hate the left. So many of them don't choose a principle, they choose a side. So even when Abbott clearly displays good leadership and unity, they still won't accept it because he's not on their "side".... that's pathetic. I can accept that Bob Hawke was a good PM, because he was a leader who united his government and the country. The left can never bring themselves to admit a conservative does it well. They are bad losers.



Rubbish. 19 years in parliament including 11 of those in a previous government. He's about the right age - not too old, not to young. He has a perfect grounding for the top office.

Just because he represents an ideology was has given the world freedom, prosperity and liberty (all things you are apparently against) doesn't mean he's not fit for the job.

As I mentioned above, the left-wing media knows it. You don't see those budgie smuggler cartoons anymore. Abbott is now seen as respected as the PM. I've noticed a change in the way the media and the populace talk about him. And shock horror, he's not that bad! Who would've though!

Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself. Good luck, but it won't help. Tone is not up to the job. Hasn't done anything so far except for war mongering like he is in a B grade John Wayne movie from the 50's.
ps you can hardly be serious when you say a left winger will be critical of Tone no matter what, as if right wingers are more accommodating. All the bad stuff is on our side, good stuff on yours. U cannot be cereal.

 

[Dan26]

I'm sorry what ideology would that be?

Put it this way. Would you rather live in America or Russia?

The answer (America obviously) is solely to do with politics. America didn't become great because of socialist philosophy I can assure you.

Labor, at their heart are socialists and that is NOT the ideology which gave the world freedom, prosperity and liberty. I know that might be hard to accept, but if you do accept it, you will probably change who you vote for.

 

[romeoh]

Also Dan, this line that some of you tout about what a decent guy he is-that pretense won't hold up in the long run. Family man rubbish -cant hide stuff forever.

 

[romeoh]

Put it this way. Would you rather live in America or Russia?

The answer (America obviously) is solely to do with politics. America didn't become great because of socialist philosophy I can assure you.

Labor, at their heart are socialists and that is NOT the ideology which gave the world freedom, prosperity and liberty. I know that might be hard to accept, but if you do accept it, you will probably change who you vote for.

Hmm think I can see why you like tone so much-you are back there in the 'reds under the beds days' too.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Put it this way. Would you rather live in America or Russia?

The answer (America obviously) is solely to do with politics. America didn't become great because of socialist philosophy I can assure you.

Labor, at their heart are socialists and that is NOT the ideology which gave the world freedom, prosperity and liberty. I know that might be hard to accept, but if you do accept it, you will probably change who you vote for.

Germany actually.

If I was to choose America it would only be based on its professional sports. Can't think of any other redeeming feature of living in America.

 

[Dan26]

Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself. Good luck, but it won't help. Tone is not up to the job. Hasn't done anything so far except for war mongering like he is in a B grade John Wayne movie from the 50's.
ps you can hardly be serious when you say a left winger will be critical of Tone no matter what, as if right wingers are more accommodating. All the bad stuff is on our side, good stuff on yours. U cannot be cereal.

I accept they have had a hostile Senate, but you can hardly blame Abbott for that. That's the card he has been dealt with. To say he has been war mongering is ridiculous. Did he plan for ISIS to become a terror threat, just so he could send soldiers off to fight them? Stop being stupid. I mean, really.

Politics makes people give ridiculous opinion based on nothing more than hatred, and loathing. It wouldn't matter what Abbott did, you'd be critical. Take a step back, and you can see he has shown leadership and unity.

And you used the word "side" again.

Proves my point.

To the left-wingers its all about which "side" you are on, rather than a principle. I'll happily criticise the PPL scheme, and the tax increase to higher income earners and the fuel tax, because they are against what I believe. I don't have a "side" I have a principle.

You have a "side" which is a big, big, big difference.

 

[Dan26]

Germany actually.

If I was to choose America it would only be based on its professional sports. Can't think of any other redeeming feature of living in America.

I endorse Germany.

But seriously, you can't think of one reason why living in America would be desirable? Freedom, property, liberty, property rights, more scientific achievements than any country, put a man on the moon, all the good moves and TV shows, music, entrepreneurs.... etc etc

You can't think of one thing that this bastion of feeedom and liberty has going for it?

 

[Dan26]

Also Dan, this line that some of you tout about what a decent guy he is-that pretense won't hold up in the long run. Family man rubbish -cant hide stuff forever.

Hide what?

 

[romeoh]

I accept they have had a hostile Senate, but you can hardly blame Abbott for that. That's the card he has been dealt with. To say he has been war mongering is ridiculous. Did he plan for ISIS to become a terror threat, just so he could send soldiers off to fight them? Stop being stupid. I mean, really.

Politics makes people give ridiculous opinion based on nothing more than hatred, and loathing. It wouldn't matter what Abbott did, you'd be critical. Take a step back, and you can see he has shown leadership and unity.

And you used the word "side" again.

Proves my point.

To the left-wingers its all about which "side" you are on, rather than a principle. I'll happily criticise the PPL scheme, and the tax increase to higher income earners and the fuel tax, because they are against what I believe. I don't have a "side" I have a principle.

You have a "side" which is a big, big, big difference.

Pretty sure you are the one who keeps bringing up 'sides'. Yep nobody on the left has principles-you have nailed that one.
Don't agree with a single thing you have said but you seem to be genuine in your beliefs, so that is something.

 

[Dan26]

Pretty sure you are the one who keeps bringing up 'sides'. Yep nobody on the left has principles-you have nailed that one.
Don't agree with a single thing you have said but you seem to be genuine in your beliefs, so that is something.

I wouldn't say nobody on the left has principles.

But the current Labor party sure fits that bill. What exactly do they stand for? Nothing.

I quite liked a few of the ex-Labor ministers. Had a lot of respect for Martin Ferguson, Lindsay Tanner. Michael Costa (former NSW treasurer) was excellent.

But too many of the current Labor party and their supporters choose a side rather than a principle.

 

[romeoh]

I wouldn't say nobody on the left has principles.

But the current Labor party sure fits that bill. What exactly do they stand for? Nothing.

I quite liked a few of the ex-Labor ministers. Had a lot of respect for Martin Ferguson, Lindsay Tanner. Michael Costa (former NSW treasurer) was excellent.

But too many of the current Labor party and their supporters choose a side rather than a principle.

Whilst the ALP are not having their finest moments, not sure how one can assume the libs etc have principles either. Seems to me that the policies of the major parties are pretty similar, and that the desire to stay in power overrules any ethical considerations or real commitment to an ideal these days( for both sides!)
ps. am of the understanding its 'pretty common knowledge' that Tone hasn't lived with his wife for sometime(pre dates the election) and had an affair with his right hand woman. I don't have an issue with what he does in his personal life except that Gillard was given such stick for hers and Tone's campaign did lean pretty heavily on his family man image.

 

[Dan26]

Whilst the ALP are not having their finest moments, not sure how one can assume the libs etc have principles either. Seems to me that the policies of the major parties are pretty similar, and that the desire to stay in power overrules any ethical considerations or real commitment to an ideal these days( for both sides!)
ps. am of the understanding its 'pretty common knowledge' that Tone hasn't lived with his wife for sometime(pre dates the election) and had an affair with his right hand woman. I don't have an issue with what he does in his personal life except that Gillard was given such stick for hers and Tone's campaign did lean pretty heavily on his family man image.

I wouldn't have a clue whether that true or not, but it doesn't sound true. Too many left-wing types in the media who'd be sure it "got out."

That aside, Abbott's best attribute is his humility. It's why I think he will be PM for a very, very long time.

Abbott is way more interested in a job well done than in who gets the credit for it. And I reckon that, in the end, is the measure of a Leader.

And it 's why the Left fails to be able to comprehend him.

And it's why they are so afraid of him.

 

[romeoh]

I wouldn't have a clue whether that true or not, but it doesn't sound true. Too many left-wing types in the media who'd be sure it "got out."

That aside, Abbott's best attribute is his humility. It's why I think he will be PM for a very, very long time.

Abbott is way more interested in a job well done than in who gets the credit for it. And I reckon that, in the end, is the measure of a Leader.

And it 's why the Left fails to be able to comprehend him.

And it's why they are so afraid of him.

Haha finally something we can agree on. Yep I am afraid of Tone, but pretty sure that is because he is an ignorant and incompetent politician, who doesn't realize he is such. And that is a dangerous combination for mine. Scary indeed.
Where you see a statesman, I see a combo of Mr Bean and John Wayne and keep my fingers crossed that he doesn't say or do anything too embarrassing. Where you see a decency, I see a lack of humanity. Where you see someone taking the hard decisions, I see someone taking unjustified measures that target the most vulnerable, whilst letting those who should be asked more of, completely off. Ah well, each to his own.
You have spent a bit of time focussing on the failings of those who are partial to left wing viewpoints, yet your posting suggests that is a pretty apt description of yourself and your right wing viewpoint. Can't really see why you can't see vulnerabilities everywhere.

 

[DarwinRoo]

I endorse Germany.

But seriously, you can't think of one reason why living in America would be desirable? Freedom, property, liberty, property rights, more scientific achievements than any country, put a man on the moon, all the good moves and TV shows, music, entrepreneurs.... etc etc

You can't think of one thing that this bastion of feeedom and liberty has going for it?

Well I'm sure the German people are happy that they have your endorsement.

I have freedom here, I have liberty here, I have my own property here.
I don't see how putting a man on the moon in 1969 makes America a great place to live now. Movies and TV shows? Are you for real?

No I can't think of anything that would make me want to move to America that I don't already have here or could get from moving to numerous other countries.

 

[Floor Pie]

Dan26, you know there is nothing that Abbott or the Coalition could do, that would make you stop supporting them. You're a fanatic.

They aren't.

The only poll that matters is the one on election day.

I do find it ironic though that the same people who claim this thread is full of name calling and insults don't seem to reply to this thread when any serious questions are asked.

Its like they go out of their way to respond to insults and 'easy' posts but ignore posts that might actually make them articulate their beliefs and generate real discussion.

Very strange.

Don't understand what you think irony is...

But your tactic of telling anyone who disagrees with the current asylum seeker situation, to give a completely workable and costed policy, is meaningless.

What about this. Lets's turn back the boats, and keep that going. Fine, let's stop every boat that attempts to come to Australia. But let's make sure that the condition of the prisoners we currently have, are humane, and there are no more deaths.

Any problem with that solution? Do you want a CBA for it?

Christ, if the people who are paid the big bucks to solve the problem can't do it, why do you expect posters on bigfooty to do it?


What is stopping us processing every asylum seeker we have in captivity right now? Processing and integrating them into Australia? Why are we still subjecting children to these conditions?

And finally, we do we have so much fear over immigration? Why is it such a polarising issue?
Fear and prejudice sells.

 

[Jiska]

Immigration Minister Scott Morrison confirms 12 asylum seeker boats turned back since start of Operation Sovereign Borders

Taking a politician at his word?? Oh wow..

 

[Todman]

Taking a politician at his word?? Oh wow..

I do when it's this man.

 

[Gough]

Todman, have you looked at the circumstances around Morrison's preselection? He's so bent that he would have a hard time lying straight in bed at night.

 

[Floor Pie]

Taking a politician at his word?? Oh wow..

Not just that, but a politician who knows that no one can find out if he is lying, because he can hide anything he wants.

I'd trust him!

 

[Dan26]

Dan26, you know there is nothing that Abbott or the Coalition could do, that would make you stop supporting them. You're a fanatic

I don't support them . I support libertarian principles. The coalition represents this more than Labor, so of the two major parties, the Liberal party is the obvious choice.

In the Senate I didn't even vote for the Liberal party . I voted for the LDP, and would have done so in the house of reps if there was a candidate.

I support a principle, not a "side".

 

[Floor Pie]

I don't support them . I support libertarian principles. The coalition represents this more than Labor, so of the two major parties, the Liberal party is the obvious choice.

In the Senate I didn't even vote for the Liberal party . I voted for the LDP, and would have done so in the house of reps if there was a candidate.

I support a principle, not a "side".

You think the best thing the Coalition has done, has been to not be a Labor government.
Yeah you don't pick sides.

You jump into threads and just spam the same line over and over. Most of it rhetoric.

There isn't anything that Abbott could do, that you wouldn't spin into a positive.

I really think you're actually Chris Pyne.

 

[Max zero]

Dan26, you know there is nothing that Abbott or the Coalition could do, that would make you stop supporting them. You're a fanatic.


Don't understand what you think irony is...

But your tactic of telling anyone who disagrees with the current asylum seeker situation, to give a completely workable and costed policy, is meaningless.

What about this. Lets's turn back the boats, and keep that going. Fine, let's stop every boat that attempts to come to Australia. But let's make sure that the condition of the prisoners we currently have, are humane, and there are no more deaths.

Any problem with that solution? Do you want a CBA for it?

Christ, if the people who are paid the big bucks to solve the problem can't do it, why do you expect posters on bigfooty to do it?


What is stopping us processing every asylum seeker we have in captivity right now? Processing and integrating them into Australia? Why are we still subjecting children to these conditions?

And finally, we do we have so much fear over immigration? Why is it such a polarising issue?
Fear and prejudice sells.

Well here are the processing times:

http://www.mrt-rrt.gov.au/Apply-for-review/Processing-times.aspx

Maybe due to the lack of documentation and the international checking requirements it takes a bit longer? Add to that the appeals process and the lawyers and it does not seem so outrageous.

Children are a complicated matter. Do we take them away from their parents? If not does that mean bringing children with gets you better accommodation and faster processing?

The fact is no one on Earth has solved it. What we do know is what does not work.