Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

[JeffDunne]

Yes, but it seems it went over your head, never mind.

Well do tell.

You seem so informed & balanced on the subject.

 

[Brown Bottle]

Yes it does. If you are in harms way and can buy a ticket out of there, you would.

Not if it meant moving from the frying pan to the fire Jane.

 

[Brown Bottle]

But that doesn't make you a refugee under the UN convention Bottle.
If you gave that as a reason to UN assessors anywhere in the world you would fail the genuine refugee test. Didn't you know that?

By definition I'm not a refugee until I've left my country of origin Jane. At the point that I did leave I'd ideally have some sort of plan in terms of destination though, as there are plenty of countries where refugees aren't welcome, get thrown into detention, get killed... right? Can you imagine anything worse than being displaced, unable to return home for fear of one's life but still at mortal risk while trying to find somewhere safe as a destination?

 

[romeoh]

The thing is the process used previously was a shambles.



Really reminds me of trying to reason/discuss with some of your lot.



No it is not.

Can you outline for me what the previous process was please? And the new process too?/QUOTE]

 

[Floor Pie]

There's a big difference in the duty of care to people at sea (we need to follow our international obligations, but we don't have a requirement to save everyone, just to try to if we're aware of their situation and location) and our duty of care to people who have arrived and are seeking asylum.

This.

But I understand why certain cheerleaders pretend they can't see the difference.
Crying about deaths at sea, but not about deaths from where they fled...

And not caring about the deaths in our captivity.

 

[mottrain]

This.

But I understand why certain cheerleaders pretend they can't see the difference.
Crying about deaths at sea, but not about deaths from where they fled...

And not caring about the deaths in our captivity.

TThe thing is though it is concerning refugee campaigners like cheer leader senator sea patrol are more concerned about deaths in captivity than deaths at sea despite the former being minute in comparison.

 

[Floor Pie]

TThe thing is though it is concerning refugee campaigners like cheer leader senator sea patrol are more concerned about deaths in captivity than deaths at sea despite the former being minute in comparison.

You are exactly the type of person I was talking about.

 

[mottrain]

You are exactly the type of person I was talking about.

Maybe it would help if some of the refugee advocates can see the difference as well.

 

[The Coup]

Maybe it would help if some of the refugee advocates can see the difference as well.

they appear to be the only ones who can

 

[Floor Pie]

Maybe it would help if some of the refugee advocates can see the difference as well.

....

* me...

Can't be bothered with your level of stupidity at the moment Tom.

Read what I wrote, read what I quoted from Coup... Try and work out what is being said.

 

[mottrain]

they appear to be the only ones who can

What by advocating that they should die at sea. Senator Hanson young merely viewed their deaths as a tragedy while demanding higher action taken for berati death. Shows a contradiction and mass hypocrisy on her part and the refugee advocates who agree with her.

 

[mottrain]

....

**** me...

Can't be bothered with your level of stupidity at the moment Tom.

Read what I wrote, read what I quoted from Coup... Try and work out what is being said.

ALSo this doesn't justify automatically claiming that because of some deaths where they were fleeing from that this unequivocally makes them refugees. It opens up the process to further exploitation when they attempt to use this fact to get cleared.

 

[Maggie5]

Can you outline for me what the previous process was please? And the new process too?/QUOTE]

Got an answer yet? Doubt that you will.

 

[mottrain]

Got an answer yet? Doubt that you will.

the irony considering how you deflect when you feel like it to prevent having to answer.

 

[GuruJane]

By definition I'm not a refugee until I've left my country of origin Jane. At the point that I did leave I'd ideally have some sort of plan in terms of destination though, as there are plenty of countries where refugees aren't welcome, get thrown into detention, get killed... right? Can you imagine anything worse than being displaced, unable to return home for fear of one's life but still at mortal risk while trying to find somewhere safe as a destination?

You wouldn't qualify as a genuine refugee with that story Bottle. Simple as that.
You are virtually admitting they are country shopping economic migrants - which is why they are not açoming any more. Indonesia not good enough for them, Bottle.

 

[mottrain]

trying to find somewhere safe as a destination=country shopping economic migrants

When they could choose other countries a lot closer and also without the lengths they go to to get here you really shouldn't wonder why we hear this term thrown up.

 

[Brown Bottle]

You wouldn't qualify as a genuine refugee with that story Bottle. Simple as that.
You are virtually admitting they are country shopping economic migrants - which is why they are not açoming any more. Indonesia not good enough for them, Bottle.

Just plain stupid Jane. Having a plan is not country shopping. Trying to find the nearest country that is a signatory to the UNHCR Convention does not make you an economic migrant.

p.s. how can I "admit" anything on their behalf. I'll just refer to the statistics that have been published many times for the benefit of people with their heads firmly wedged up their own back passages... what % of people landing on our shores are found to be genuine refugees when they are actually assessed Jane?

 

[LanceRomance]

Just plain stupid Jane. Having a plan is not country shopping. Trying to find the nearest country that is a signatory to the UNHCR Convention does not make you an economic migrant.

p.s. how can I "admit" anything on their behalf. I'll just refer to the statistics that have been published many times for the benefit of people with their heads firmly wedged up their own back passages... what % of people landing on our shores are found to be genuine refugees when they are actually assessed Jane?

is there such a stat?

 

[Jiska]

what % of people landing on our shores are found to be genuine refugees when they are actually assessed Jane?

Still waiting for mottrain to answer the same question

 

[LanceRomance]

Still waiting for mottrain to answer the same question

I was told by a human rights lawyer that genuine refugees are the ones most likely to be sent back home (this was back in '11) because the economic ones could afford to get paperwork made up to create a back story... the genuine ones could not.


anyway, this is a really old article, and having come back from Jakarta recently is still on the mark somewhat

http://sievx.com/articles/psdp/20010915JakartaPost.html

 

[romeoh]

I was told by a human rights lawyer that genuine refugees are the ones most likely to be sent back home (this was back in '11) because the economic ones could afford to get paperwork made up to create a back story... the genuine ones could not.

Assuming those in authority are not complete idiots, and assuming this rather pat anecdote is true, then I imagine that is exactly the sort of thing that our processors are aware of, and so follow up with a conscientious endeavour.

 

[LanceRomance]

Assuming those in authority are not complete idiots, and assuming this rather pat anecdote is true, then I imagine that is exactly the sort of thing that our processors are aware of, and so follow up with a conscientious endeavour.

They do their best I guess... but it takes a very very long time.

perhaps you should have a chat to a human rights lawyer who works with asylum seekers?

 

[romeoh]

They do their best I guess... but it takes a very very long time.

perhaps you should have a chat to a human rights lawyer who works with asylum seekers?

Yep, it takes time and no doubt there are some murky applications that are hard to get to the bottom of. And of course anyone can say 'I know someone who says blah'-and so of course I do know people who work in the area and they are very savvy people, alert to every trick in the book. Maybe you should talk to them-they are working in the area currently?
So do you really think our 'border protectors' are that naive? There has to be some level of trust that the people doing these jobs have a clue.

 

[LanceRomance]

Yep, it takes time and no doubt there are some murky applications that are hard to get to the bottom of. And of course anyone can say 'I know someone who says blah'-and so of course I do know people who work in the area and they are very savvy people, alert to every trick in the book. Maybe you should talk to them-they are working in the area currently?
So do you really think our 'border protectors' are that naive? There has to be some level of trust that the people doing these jobs have a clue.

I think they have a clue.

Maybe there arent enough?

 

[romeoh]

I think they have a clue.

Maybe there arent enough?

Well yep, that could be true.
But there is a lot of money splashed around in those departments, so you would think they could employ enough staff. Plain silly if we are understaffed. Will ask one of my friends (who just returned from living on a naval ship off Manus Island for past few weeks.), if they think staffing is an issue.