Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

[romeoh]

And to think Juliar used to complain because Howard spent a $1 billion.

Haha and causes one to wonder if the dollar difference might just have something to do with the fact that there are a lot more refugees in the world now. That's right -the refugee population is growing, numbers of refugees, displaced people is the highest on record. 51+ million, half of them children.
Except here of course.

 

[Todman]

Haha and causes one to wonder if the dollar difference might just have something to do with the fact that there are a lot more refugees in the world now. That's right -the refugee population is growing, numbers of refugees, displaced people is the highest on record. 51+ million, half of them children.
Except here of course.

Just because they stuff up their part of the world doesn't mean we allow them to stuff ours.

 

[rodney hoo]

Just because they stuff up their part of the world doesn't mean we allow them to stuff ours.

The problem I have with the response is the west should take a lot of the blame for stuffing them up. You sleep with dogs you get flees.

 

[kimp]

You do realise it wasn't an inquiry to begin with and that it was initially Howard who picked both the direction and timing of a report. 2013 was supposed to be the start date, however the election meant Triggs delayed the process. Which was sensible.

None of the findings are being disputed and the general direction and timing was put in place before Trigg and to mark the 10 year anniversary of the commission.

The libs have been part of the process at every step and never complained about the timing, scope or the transition to an inquiry until they knew the findings would be detailed and accurate. Its nothing but a distraction.

And all aimed at an easy target. That's what makes them so gross.

As many have stated it could have been handled in a way to make them and their policies look good. Instead they took an easy option to obfuscate the current leadership dramas.

 

[Lester Burnham]

You do realise it wasn't an inquiry to begin with and that it was initially Howard who picked both the direction and timing of a report. 2013 was supposed to be the start date, however the election meant Triggs delayed the process. Which was sensible.

None of the findings are being disputed and the general direction and timing was put in place before Trigg and to mark the 10 year anniversary of the commission.

The libs have been part of the process at every step and never complained about the timing, scope or the transition to an inquiry until they knew the findings would be detailed and accurate. Its nothing but a distraction.

None of what you say is true.

 

[medusala]

Haha and causes one to wonder if the dollar difference might just have something to do with the fact that there are a lot more refugees in the world now. That's right -the refugee population is growing, numbers of refugees, displaced people is the highest on record. 51+ million, half of them children.
Except here of course.

Yes lots of genuine refugees. As opposed to those who fly halfway across the world in luxury then pay tens of thousands to boat smugglers to get to Australia and intentionally deceive the Australian government by throwing away their documentation

IIRC polls say Australians are happy to take refugees but have far less time for illegal immigrants who pay people smugglers. If that is correct its understandable

Our refugee resettlement scheme is mingy, not generous-read the numbers properly..

Bollocks. You can hardly compare Australia to neighbours of war torn countries


..

those resettled do in fact turn out to be genuine refugees, so not sure what your point is there...

Just because they game the Australian legal system hardly makes them genuine. How can anyone be sure when they turn up without documentation. In any event a substantial number are knocked back only to win on appeal

Other countries approval rates are far lower, not hard to come to conclusion that the current Australian system is a soft touch

.

. Instead they are drowning elsewhere of leading terrible lives by staying put-these desperate people who were prepared to risk they lives, maybe now they just accept that their children will not have a hope of a better life?
Good on us.

If they are so desperate why do so many single males turn up? The situation is so bad that you would leave your wife and kids behind?

Sounds a tall order to me.

 

[medusala]

If we dont want to process refugees and asylum seekers then we can just repudiate the treaty. We havent.

Australia doesn't have to process illegal immigrants. Under the treaty we can send them to a third country as long as refoulment isn't involved.

Further that treaty was hardly set up / envisaged the current situation.

In any event its pick and choose by some with respect to international law. Why don't you mention the responsibility to apply for asylum in the first safe country? Flying halfway across the world to get to Australia is clearly not in keeping with that.

 

[romeoh]

Just because they stuff up their part of the world doesn't mean we allow them to stuff ours.

Crikey you're all class Toddy.

 

[romeoh]

Yes lots of genuine refugees. As opposed to those who fly halfway across the world in luxury then pay tens of thousands to boat smugglers to get to Australia and intentionally deceive the Australian government by throwing away their documentation

IIRC polls say Australians are happy to take refugees but have far less time for illegal immigrants who pay people smugglers. If that is correct its understandable



Bollocks. You can hardly compare Australia to neighbours of war torn countries


..

Just because they game the Australian legal system hardly makes them genuine. How can anyone be sure when they turn up without documentation. In any event a substantial number are knocked back only to win on appeal

Other countries approval rates are far lower, not hard to come to conclusion that the current Australian system is a soft touch

.

If they are so desperate why do so many single males turn up? The situation is so bad that you would leave your wife and kids behind?

Sounds a tall order to me.

We'll have to agree to disagree on these points Medusala. Don't think any of these oft repeated claims re economic, documentation, young men and so forth have been substantiated.( except the refugee numbers, which if you check -easy to verify we are in fact mingy!)

 

[Ice-Wolf]

While we are still in 1788, I also want to hear the justification for leaving an entire continent to a relatively few nomadic people and not spreading the benefits of civilisation around.

They had a civilisation and they weren't as nomadic as you think.

 

[medusala]

We'll have to agree to disagree on these points Medusala. Don't think any of these oft repeated claims re economic, documentation, young men and so forth have been substantiated.( except the refugee numbers, which if you check -easy to verify we are in fact mingy!)

A number have been mentioned in senate hearings. ie TPVs supposedly led to more women and children in boats as family reunion became harder.

Refugee numbers are meaningless by themselves, you have to add family reunion to them which is many multiples more.

One number that doesn't get mentioned (IIRC Sheridan did in the oz) is the number of failed asylum seekers that get returned. If they have no documentation its hard to return them - IIRC under Gillard very few if any were

So in effect it becomes an open door policy.

 

[romeoh]

A number have been mentioned in senate hearings. ie TPVs supposedly led to more women and children in boats as family reunion became harder.

Refugee numbers are meaningless by themselves, you have to add family reunion to them which is many multiples more.

One number that doesn't get mentioned (IIRC Sheridan did in the oz) is the number of failed asylum seekers that get returned. If they have no documentation its hard to return them - IIRC under Gillard very few if any were

So in effect it becomes an open door policy.

Hardly 'open door'-nothing much to be proud of here.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/as-w...-australia-goes-backwards-20140620-3ajqj.html

ps what is the obsession you chaps have with Gillard-sooo last year, any chance of building a bridge and getting over it?

 

[medusala]

Hardly 'open door'-nothing much to be proud of here.

If you cant deport anyone who turns up illegally without documentation then yes it is basically open door to boat arrivals.

SMH article is nonsense. To compare Australia to a country that has a war next to it and a porous border is pathetic to the point of dishonest.

However when you look at the relevant statistic

"Australia's refugee resettlement program was ranked second in the world in 2013"

 

[romeoh]

If you cant deport anyone who turns up illegally without documentation then yes it is basically open door to boat arrivals.

SMH article is nonsense. To compare Australia to a country that has a war next to it and a porous border is pathetic to the point of dishonest.

However when you look at the relevant statistic

"Australia's refugee resettlement program was ranked second in the world in 2013"

Haha -is that where you stopped reading?-keep going -not quite so impressive!
SMH article is pretty comprehensive actually and factors in the relevant determinants -you really did stop reading didn't you!
Got the stats on how many we took in 2014? Think you'll find it isn't too open door.

 

[Docker Clint]

 

[medusala]

Haha -is that where you stopped reading?-keep going -not quite so impressive!

I did well to get past the first sentence of a Fairfax article! The argument is a joke. Look at those countries ahead of us like Pakistan and Iran. They don't go out of their way to take refugees, people simply cross a border. Ditto Turkey, Chad, Ethiopia etc.

Its the usual propaganda put about by the refugee lobby. The vast majority can see this argument for the nonsense it is.

They would by a huge distance be the most dishonest lobby group in Australia. They make the Israeli and Green lobbyist look like paragons of virtue, something that takes rather a lot of effort to do.

 

[romeoh]

I did well to get past the first sentence of a Fairfax article! The argument is a joke. Look at those countries ahead of us like Pakistan and Iran. They don't go out of their way to take refugees, people simply cross a border. Ditto Turkey, Chad, Ethiopia etc.

Its the usual propaganda put about by the refugee lobby. The vast majority can see this argument for the nonsense it is.

They would by a huge distance be the most dishonest lobby group in Australia. They make the Israeli and Green lobbyist look like paragons of virtue, something that takes rather a lot of effort to do.

Ok lets not keep going round and round-you didn't read it properly sorry-its not propaganda-its just simple facts that you don't like.
Love your last sentence by the way-you are very funny, if not a little bonkers!

 

[pokerspiv]

And when everybody mimics our border policy no asylum seekers die at sea. They just die in the hell-whole they would otherwise be trying to escape or in the hell-whole set up to imprison them if they try. Problem solved

You do realise we take the same amount of refugees each year whether they come by boat or not?

All coming by boat does is increase the risk of drowning and make it harder to assess their claim.

 

[GuruJane]

The way Malcolm's going cheerleading children out of detention, the people smugglers plus Australian domestic arm of PS industry will be testing him out from Indonesia within a month or so of him taking over as PM.

Does anybody here seriously think Malcolm would maintain Abbott/Morrison tough line with Operation Sovereign Borders boat turnbacks if ABC/Fairfax media/Human Rights Commission took him on?

 

[romeoh]

The way Malcolm's going cheerleading children out of detention, the people smugglers plus Australian domestic arm of PS industry will be testing him out from Indonesia within a month or so of him taking over as PM.

Does anybody here seriously think Malcolm would maintain Abbott/Morrison tough line with Operation Sovereign Borders boat turnbacks if ABC/Fairfax media/Human Rights Commission took him on?

Sure hope not. Sure hope he can find the balance between control and humanity. ( doubt he will become PM though)

 

[Gough]

Good piece from Kristina Keneally acknowledging the ALP's complicity in all of this and calling for an RC into it all.
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...damaged-children-its-time-they-owned-up-to-it

 

[Xsess]

The way Malcolm's going cheerleading children out of detention, the people smugglers plus Australian domestic arm of PS industry will be testing him out from Indonesia within a month or so of him taking over as PM.

Does anybody here seriously think Malcolm would maintain Abbott/Morrison tough line with Operation Sovereign Borders boat turnbacks if ABC/Fairfax media/Human Rights Commission took him on?

Turnbull is a gift to the live human traders. If he is made leader, Labor voters get a Labor PM for the remainder of this government’s lifetime and a guaranteed return to ALP government when the LNP base deserts it in numbers at the next election. Win win for the ALP, enabling the party to get on with the job it started with Rudd and Gillard, destroying this country through uncontrolled mass migration and a bankrupting fiscal policy.

 

[Todman]

Good piece from Kristina Keneally acknowledging the ALP's complicity in all of this and calling for an RC into it all.
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...damaged-children-its-time-they-owned-up-to-it

You don't think the ALP will own up do you?

Labor ministers don't resign when they stuff up, so way would the party?

 

[GuruJane]

Good piece from Kristina Keneally acknowledging the ALP's complicity in all of this and calling for an RC into it all.
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...damaged-children-its-time-they-owned-up-to-it

As Kristina says:

People are not safer because our government stopped the boats. They are just suffering and dying somewhere elsewhere they no longer disturb our view.

Kristina making the case that stopping the boats should not be Labor policy. More evidence of the rationale and arguments that will be applied to a Labor government to get it to abandon Operation Sovereign Borders.

 

[Xsess]

stopping the boats should not be Labor policy.

Makes political sense. 50,000 welfare seekers represents a sizeable Labor voting bloc

#whateverittakes