Swans' academy.

[fishardansin]

Surely the academy is fantastic thing. I agree with most people that COLA being phased out is the correct thing to do but having an academy for all of the 4 NSW/Qld sides is a great idea.

I am on record of thinking that expansion was and is a terrible idea and the money should have been spent on sustainable grass roots campaigns up north. However, these academy's are a chance for that. Four academy's developing players in those markets is great and the fact that they operate under father-son rules is fantastic. The clubs get rewarded for their work but can't hoard the players and will have to pay a reasonable price for them in the draft.

I think that poaching big stars has been modis operandi for Sydney since the 80s from Edelston's mercanaries to Plugger to Hall and now Buddy + Tippett. It has helped generate interest up there but now that there is a fair bit of rusted on support young kids coming into the side and then having a career there will bring greater joy to their supporters. I also think that all kids who go through the acadamey will have a soft spot and unless they come from southern ex-pat family and are rusted on supporters for another team will be Sydney supporters, and so will their families.

Considering most clubs can have a NSW young fella on their list makes clubs complaining about this hypocrites. Maybe there could be something similar for Vic/SA/WA clubs. There is obviously fantastic development for juniors with the state comps. What about similar dibs for players listed in the VFL/SANFL/WAFL affiliated clubs who have never been drafted by an AFL club?

That way there is more value in taking a kid on the fringes of the draft and putting time into him. The one catch to it to stop rorting would be that they have to have nominated for the draft prior to being available for this. Otherwise clubs could get young ruckmen who wont hit their straps until over 21 to stand out of the draft and then pay them to study and develop for the AFL using their facilities while playing VFL and not waste a list spot.

 

[SM]

A really insightful listen from Swans and GWS posters about the actual state of affairs up here in NSW in regards to the Academy rather than the trash Eddie is spouting.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

My nephew moved to Newcastle a couple years ago and is in the Swans academy and he loves it, he's a massive Hawks fan but is loving the academy and now obviously has a soft spot for the Swans.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

We have one

http://m.essendonfc.com.au/team/james-hird-academy

This will go well

 

[clogged]

Considering most clubs can have a NSW young fella on their list makes clubs complaining about this hypocrites. Maybe there could be something similar for Vic/SA/WA clubs. There is obviously fantastic development for juniors with the state comps. What about similar dibs for players listed in the VFL/SANFL/WAFL affiliated clubs who have never been drafted by an AFL club?

Fat chance of that happening.

 

[Marlin01]

I think it's excellent, but it creates an inequity in the competition. Rather than tear down such a wonderful initiative for the sport of Aussie Rules, why not allocate zones for all clubs, so they each have their own academies?

 

[RUNVS]

I think it's excellent, but it creates an inequity in the competition. Rather than tear down such a wonderful initiative for the sport of Aussie Rules, why not allocate zones for all clubs, so they each have their own academies?

It really wouldn't bother me if that were to happen. Only issue would be figuring out which club has the Murray and Wagga Wagga as both areas are sort of AFL heartland already.

 

[EB&W Pieman]

Wait for the ruckus when a 16 year-old Oakleigh Charger (or Dandenong Stingray, etc) moves to Sydney and joins up with the Swans Academy.

Will Eddie still be wrong?

PS Before everyone says "It can't happen" remember what we thought about COLA before Tippett and Buddy.

 

[grimlock]

When did Dane Swan open an academy?

 

[fishardansin]

We have one

http://m.essendonfc.com.au/team/james-hird-academy

This will go well

Right. I think that Swans and Lions have F/S recruit possibilities, though Murphy and Daniher both opted out, but for the new teams I spose it evens up the score.

 

[fishardansin]

Wait for the ruckus when a 16 year-old Oakleigh Charger (or Dandenong Stingray, etc) moves to Sydney and joins up with the Swans Academy.

Will Eddie still be wrong?

PS Before everyone says "It can't happen" remember what we thought about COLA before Tippett and Buddy.

How on the earth will that be better for your development? If he'd spurn the opportunity to master his craft against the best kids in the biggest football state then he'll stunt his development.

 

[fishardansin]

Also Bunk Moreland .... Mason Fletcher just 4 years away from playing!! God I hope Dusty hangs on.

 

[Theprofessional]

Wait for the ruckus when a 16 year-old Oakleigh Charger (or Dandenong Stingray, etc) moves to Sydney and joins up with the Swans Academy.

Will Eddie still be wrong?

PS Before everyone says "It can't happen" remember what we thought about COLA before Tippett and Buddy.

If that happened than the system would need to be changed. But it won't/can't happen.

Let's not derail the thread by bringing up the COLA when Buddy was signed due to years of contract not cash per year.

 

[robbieando]

Wait for the ruckus when a 16 year-old Oakleigh Charger (or Dandenong Stingray, etc) moves to Sydney and joins up with the Swans Academy.

If that happens then the Swans or whichever clubs academy he can't be bid for and has to be entered into the draft as he has played in another States development system.

Will Eddie still be wrong?

Yes, because being wrong now means you are wrong into the future

PS Before everyone says "It can't happen" remember what we thought about COLA before Tippett and Buddy.

As it can't happen now, that doesn't apply.

 

[Upgrayedd]

The NSW Scholarship program which was scrapped would of kind of evened it up, IF the AFL were keen on developing talent out of NSW to bring up the numbers of players it would of kept the thing, However it was pretty average system for clubs who did not really go all out on it,

with only Taylor Walker/Will Langford/Jarred Witts/Craig Bird really comming out of it looking like 100+ game players.

I see where eddie's comming from, Just wait untill the eagles/Dockers sucessfully lobby about setting up a Full time academy around the Kimberlys eddie before you start to whinge

 

[master bate]

I'm torn.

We need to pump development money in at these athletes from NSW and QLD to get them in the game. We need more talent and aligning the academies with AFL clubs is a simple way to get expertise involved and to have a very good incentive for the kids as well.

But the demands of a fair competition have to be considered as well.

I fully agree that Sydney aren't hiding kids. But what of the advantages in the bidding system and the advantages these kids get in the Sydney (or otherwise) system by being trained in it?

Take Brandon Jack. Didn't look much of a player before the draft. But Sydney have so much access to him to see how his skills are progressing. They know how his body is developing as they've been in control of that. He's been learning the swans style of footy with tackling and pressure. They don't just get a 10 minute interview with him but have monitored his personality for years and have tested it in harsh training conditions. So he goes as a late rookie pick as he doesn't look much of a player but in his first year he debuts and plays some reasonable footy.

This Isaac Heeney isn't just a top 5 pick. He's a top 5 pick who's been trained to be ready for Sydney style footy. The Swans know all about him and his personality and injury history. They can manage him through the season with regard to training and playing loads so he doesn't risk over injury like other kids pushing to be picked up. When he turns up for preseason training in November they wont have to restrict his training loads as much as they'll know a bit about what he can or can't do. He doesn't have to settle in to meeting 40 new team mates as he undoubtedly knows a lot of them already.

It's hard not to believe that there are significant advantages in having an academy of kids to train up before other clubs get access to players.

 

[CharlieG]

For some perspective, by my count the retirement of Lenny Hayes (who was from the GWS zone, not the Swans one) leaves 15 senior-listed AFL players who come from the GWS zone, 9 from the Swans zone (six at the Swans, Jarrod Witts who went to Collingwood as a scholarship player, Will Langford who is at the Hawks as a father/son and Dylan Addison, who is at GWS via the Bulldogs)... and five from Ireland.

Clearly the Swans are getting unreasonable access to a bottomless pit of talent. About the only legitimate criticism of the academy set up is that the GWS zone shouldn't include traditional AFL towns south of the Barassi line like Albury and Wagga. Had the GWS Academy existed in the late 1980s it would have included Wayne Carey, John Longmire, Paul Kelly, Shane Crawford and James Hird.

 

[clogged]

The problem the AFL have is that while their competition is reasonably popular enough in Sydney and Brisbane, not enough of that support is channeled into the local AFL clubs.

There are a lot of expats from football states in Sydney, Brisbane and Gold Coast. Yet they and their children still support the clubs from the traditional states. These associations are very difficult to break. It's why Sydney will fill the SCG when they play Essendon yet won't when they play GWS. It's why GWS have never hosted Fremantle and play low drawing games in Canberra.

A conceivable way of breaking it? Zoning. If every boy born in NSW and QLD is "destined" to play for one of those four clubs, then his and his family's allegiance may be shifted. All roads lead to one of Swans, GWS, Brisbane, or Gold Coast.

The AFL probably realise after 25 years in the northern states they have minimal hope of converting people who are mad soccer or rugby league fans into Australian football fans, but they can attempt to convert every current fan of an AFL club in NSW and QLD into fans of the northern clubs.

 

[CharlieG]

The problem the AFL have is that while their competition is reasonably popular enough in Sydney and Brisbane, not enough of that support is channeled into the local AFL clubs.

There are a lot of expats from football states in Sydney, Brisbane and Gold Coast. Yet they and their children still support the clubs from the traditional states. These associations are very difficult to break. It's why Sydney will fill the SCG when they play Essendon yet won't when they play GWS. It's why GWS have never hosted Fremantle and play low drawing games in Canberra.

A conceivable way of breaking it? Zoning. If every boy born in NSW and QLD is "destined" to play for one of those four clubs, then his and his family's allegiance may be shifted. All roads lead to one of Swans, GWS, Brisbane, or Gold Coast.

The AFL probably realise after 25 years in the northern states they have minimal hope of converting people who are mad soccer or rugby league fans into Australian football fans, but they can attempt to convert every current fan of an AFL club in nSW and QLD into fans of the northern clubs.

Now we're using people's sons against them to seduce them away from the clubs they support.

We're such bastards.

 

[Andrew Mc]

The NSW Scholarship program which was scrapped would of kind of evened it up, IF the AFL were keen on developing talent out of NSW to bring up the numbers of players it would of kept the thing, However it was pretty average system for clubs who did not really go all out on it,

with only Taylor Walker/Will Langford/Jarred Witts/Craig Bird really comming out of it looking like 100+ game players.

I see where eddie's comming from, Just wait untill the eagles/Dockers sucessfully lobby about setting up a Full time academy around the Kimberlys eddie before you start to whinge

Yeah, honestly I tend to agree somewhat - was the main reason it was scrapped the lack of interest? Or perhaps just the logistics of it all - would be difficult for all 18 sides to manage players in such a vast region.

 

[robbieando]

The problem the AFL have is that while their competition is reasonably popular enough in Sydney and Brisbane, not enough of that support is channeled into the local AFL clubs.

There are a lot of expats from football states in Sydney, Brisbane and Gold Coast. Yet they and their children still support the clubs from the traditional states. These associations are very difficult to break. It's why Sydney will fill the SCG when they play Essendon yet won't when they play GWS. It's why GWS have never hosted Fremantle and play low drawing games in Canberra.

A conceivable way of breaking it? Zoning. If every boy born in NSW and QLD is "destined" to play for one of those four clubs, then his and his family's allegiance may be shifted. All roads lead to one of Swans, GWS, Brisbane, or Gold Coast.

The AFL probably realise after 25 years in the northern states they have minimal hope of converting people who are mad soccer or rugby league fans into Australian football fans, but they can attempt to convert every current fan of an AFL club in NSW and QLD into fans of the northern clubs.

So that's why we rig the draw to never play Freo in Perth

 

[clogged]

Now we're using people's sons against them to seduce them away from the clubs they support.

We're such bastards.

Isn't that what you should be doing?

When I played football as a junior in NSW and Sydney in the 90s, no one supported the Swans. Support was distributed amongst the bigger Melbourne clubs, with some interest in West Coast.

That's a missed opportunity for Sydney (and GWS). The AFL wants sell out 40,000+ crowds for the Swans and 25,000+ crowds for the Giants every week. The most likely way that can happen is if everyone who loves Australian football in Sydney chooses to follow them. And the best way to establish that association is through the junior levels.

So that's why we rig the draw to never play Freo in Perth

Sydney fans once again proving they're not that smart.

 

[robbieando]

Yeah, honestly I tend to agree somewhat - was the main reason it was scrapped the lack of interest? Or perhaps just the logistics of it all - would be difficult for all 18 sides to manage players in such a vast region.

Lack of interest from club outside the power clubs such as Hawthorn, Collingwood and West Coast, the introduction of GWS and the fact the Scholarship program only picked the elite 20-30 kids who played the game in NSW while the Academy system will have near to 2000 kids across NSW and QLD given a pathway that they haven't had before from the age of 11. So more kids involved is the answer

 

[Bonz]

Wait for the ruckus when a 16 year-old Oakleigh Charger (or Dandenong Stingray, etc) moves to Sydney and joins up with the Swans Academy.

Will Eddie still be wrong?

PS Before everyone says "It can't happen" remember what we thought about COLA before Tippett and Buddy.

It actually can't happen though, in order to join the Swans academy you must of been living in NSW for a certain period of time (If I recall correctly it is at least 3 or 4 years) its the same reason why Dustin Martin couldn't join the scholarship program when he lived in Sydney for a few years.

 

[robbieando]

Sydney fans once again proving they're not that smart.

Right.......