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No Oppo Supporters Swans v Hawks - the thread where we let it all out (READ OP FIRST)
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GotTheGoodes
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http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2015-01-14/goodes-times-ahead
Goodesy indicates that his & the teams main goal for 2015 is to seek atonement for our pathetic GF performance.
He says:
"We played our worst brand of football for a long time... it no doubt motivated the group to want to get better"
(The 2014 Australian of the Year said watching a replay of the demolition together turned the team's heartbreak into pre-season determination)
"I knew we were bad, but I didn't think we were as bad as what we were, so it was good to have a little bit of closure from that game"
*For those of you pissed the guys "haven't watched a replay".
Goodesy indicates that his & the teams main goal for 2015 is to seek atonement for our pathetic GF performance.
He says:
"We played our worst brand of football for a long time... it no doubt motivated the group to want to get better"
(The 2014 Australian of the Year said watching a replay of the demolition together turned the team's heartbreak into pre-season determination)
"I knew we were bad, but I didn't think we were as bad as what we were, so it was good to have a little bit of closure from that game"
*For those of you pissed the guys "haven't watched a replay".
Probably vomiting in the loos by then. Hard for us to watch but must have been a nightmare for the players. I'm sure they've lived every moment over and over through the off season.
Number37
Anyhow, have a Winfield 25.
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It is apparently an outrageous notion that the players and club apologise to the fans but do they apologise to each other?
Do they sit around the table and call each other sh!t (in more constructive words)?
Do they draw a line in the sand?
Do they commit to it never happening again?
Do they sit around the table and call each other sh!t (in more constructive words)?
Do they draw a line in the sand?
Do they commit to it never happening again?
swansfan51
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Absolutely - at least a couple of times a season. From memory it happened against LWS and Norf last year.
Number37
Anyhow, have a Winfield 25.
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That was my next question...How many times will it never happen again?
Better get to the point...the players have painted themselves into a corner. Whilst they haven't got to Tony Abbott status where nobody will believe a word that comes out of their mouths they don't do themselves any favours by pretending they have dealt with it.
I don't believe the GF should act as motivation for the future, rather than motivation I hope the players have learned something from it. A few of those lessons would be pretty obvious, others may require a little more self reflection.
To be fair they don't set out to lose any game. For which ones should we hold the team culpable ? The ones where they were supposed to win ? They keep repeating the mantra of 'not good enough' & 'not the way we want to play' every time they lose because they want to make the loss a one-off. Is it worse than 'They're just too good for us' ? If they came out at the beginning of the year and said 'We expect to win 17 games' would we ignore the first 3 or 4 they lose ?
I don't pretend to understand the psychology of the team. I don't mind if they don't dwell too long on their losses as long as they don't sit on their laurels.
I'd be more concerned if, after a loss, they came out and said 'Look, s**t happens. OK ?', or worse, after a win 'Damn, we are HOT !'
I don't pretend to understand the psychology of the team. I don't mind if they don't dwell too long on their losses as long as they don't sit on their laurels.
I'd be more concerned if, after a loss, they came out and said 'Look, s**t happens. OK ?', or worse, after a win 'Damn, we are HOT !'
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The GF showed us we are still a fragile developing team (the same team that lost to GWS and Norf). Unfortunately, the spate of wins lulled most of us (me included) into thinking we had hit the big time, but we still lack consistency. I hope some of our young players come through and it all clicks into gear
And a extremely ordinary Collingwood in round 2 who lost the previous week by 11 goals.
Franklin was huge he won at least 2 games off his own boot and seem to relish being the focus again but probably masked over the cracks a little.
I agree with you that in patches we looked unstoppable but other times struggled to kick 10 goals against Richmond and Melbourne.
This is why i think we still have quite a bit of improvement left in the team heading into 2015.
Gee, the most season wins in our history would suggest consistency. We are a mature hard-bodied team of seasoned finals campaigners. We don't need a team of young players, who would indeed turn us into a fragile developing team. We need to shore up our clearance work, get better at shutting down key opposition players, get some more experience into our newer defenders and have our potent forward line get to know each other better. The Norf game, GWS , Pies and the GF were the aberrations, not our record run of season wins. The first few of those losses were because we were slow getting going, the last because we believed the media, got carried away with how great we thought we were and thus we didn't turn up to play. These can all be atoned for without throwing the baby out with the bath water.
We ended one crucial win away from 2014 being lauded as the greatest Swans season ever. That's how close we got, and that's why it hurts so damn much.
Perspective needed.
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Saying it will not happen again is just a statement of intent. It's positive affirmation. It spurs the team on. Their goal becomes to 'not let it happen again'. If it were about honestly predicting the future then no team could ever say 'they won't let it happen again'. Every team loses at some point. Sometimes the opposition just has a better day.
When a politician says they'll do one thing and then does another, that's lying.
Watched the 2012 prelim against pies today. Great game. Jetta's length of the field goal and many other highlights. Goodes in form is unstoppable. LRT was pure gold. ROK had more tackles and clearances than I could count.
The thing that really stood out for 2012 finals v. 2014 was the players who have gone. LRT, ROK, Jude, Mattner, Mummy. In terms of game time that was a humungous loss of experience. LRT, ROK and Jude in particular are finals specialists. Most of all though, it really struck me how much hardness we lost. Those were 5 guys who gave everything to a contest. We lost the clearance prowess of ROK & Mummy, the flexibility of LRT, the desperate defence of Mattner and the defensive forward expert in Jude. In clearances ROK dug out as much ball as Kennedy (in fact they played very similar roles) and laid truck loads of tackles. All of those 5 were tackling machines. How many times did we see Mattner's closing speed, Jude running down players he shouldn't have been able to catch (even Dangerfield), Mummy digging into packs, ROK sharing the hard in and under work with Kennedy and LRT.....a finals hero and the hardest (& goofiest) bastard we've seen in our team for a long while (I'd rather face an angry BBBH than LRT in the blood rage). All that left the team. Some through retirement but also some (mainly ROK) who didn't fit into the new high speed slingshot Swans. In changing the style of the team (and the change proved effective enough to see our most wins in a season) we also lost two key advantages, tackling and clearances. What was missed with ROK was that it wasn't all about speed. Heck, Kennedy's not quick either but with ROK alongside him Kennedy was that much more effective. Not only did he share the load and allow kennedy to get free but ROK could tag as well. In my view then, and with the benefit of hindsight, it was probable (and therefore predictable) that we could be well beaten by a hard tackling team who could win the clearances and use the ball well (that last is important as we are very good at capitalising on turnovers). We were even more vulnerable to the team that were also big bodied and experienced enough to beat into us. Hawks did that very well. Had we a Mummy, ROK, Bolton, Mattner or, especially, an LRT that just wouldn't have happened.
Horse's challenge then, as I see it, is to get that hardness back (and by that I mean not just hard at the ball i.e., Parker, Mitchell, but hard at the man). He needs to forsake some speed for plain old in & under toughness tackling and clearances from stoppages (yes, ROK should have been in the team), he needs to be able to shut down players (Bird as sub made the loss of ROK even more noticeable) and he needs to find that bloods spirit again. I don't see it in the new crop. I see skills, I see haircuts, I see one newbie (not sure whom) on a pre-season training clip sweeping his hair back as the camera swings onto him despite being in the middle of a team run (and I think, f*&k, it's not about you mate) but I don't see desperation. I don't even see it in the older players so much now and, to be honest, it's got to be all or none. The spirit that brought the Swans back from the brink started with Paul Kelly, was cemented by Stuart Maxfield and carved in stone by Brett Kirk. The Bloods culture infused the whole team. That's why it worked. They all bought in to the fight. They were the 22 musketeers. All for one and one for all. You touched one Blood and the other took it very personally. In the 2014 GF no one seemed to give a tinker's cuss about the hits on their team mates. LRT would have gone over and thumped the entire Hawks team.
The thing that really stood out for 2012 finals v. 2014 was the players who have gone. LRT, ROK, Jude, Mattner, Mummy. In terms of game time that was a humungous loss of experience. LRT, ROK and Jude in particular are finals specialists. Most of all though, it really struck me how much hardness we lost. Those were 5 guys who gave everything to a contest. We lost the clearance prowess of ROK & Mummy, the flexibility of LRT, the desperate defence of Mattner and the defensive forward expert in Jude. In clearances ROK dug out as much ball as Kennedy (in fact they played very similar roles) and laid truck loads of tackles. All of those 5 were tackling machines. How many times did we see Mattner's closing speed, Jude running down players he shouldn't have been able to catch (even Dangerfield), Mummy digging into packs, ROK sharing the hard in and under work with Kennedy and LRT.....a finals hero and the hardest (& goofiest) bastard we've seen in our team for a long while (I'd rather face an angry BBBH than LRT in the blood rage). All that left the team. Some through retirement but also some (mainly ROK) who didn't fit into the new high speed slingshot Swans. In changing the style of the team (and the change proved effective enough to see our most wins in a season) we also lost two key advantages, tackling and clearances. What was missed with ROK was that it wasn't all about speed. Heck, Kennedy's not quick either but with ROK alongside him Kennedy was that much more effective. Not only did he share the load and allow kennedy to get free but ROK could tag as well. In my view then, and with the benefit of hindsight, it was probable (and therefore predictable) that we could be well beaten by a hard tackling team who could win the clearances and use the ball well (that last is important as we are very good at capitalising on turnovers). We were even more vulnerable to the team that were also big bodied and experienced enough to beat into us. Hawks did that very well. Had we a Mummy, ROK, Bolton, Mattner or, especially, an LRT that just wouldn't have happened.
Horse's challenge then, as I see it, is to get that hardness back (and by that I mean not just hard at the ball i.e., Parker, Mitchell, but hard at the man). He needs to forsake some speed for plain old in & under toughness tackling and clearances from stoppages (yes, ROK should have been in the team), he needs to be able to shut down players (Bird as sub made the loss of ROK even more noticeable) and he needs to find that bloods spirit again. I don't see it in the new crop. I see skills, I see haircuts, I see one newbie (not sure whom) on a pre-season training clip sweeping his hair back as the camera swings onto him despite being in the middle of a team run (and I think, f*&k, it's not about you mate) but I don't see desperation. I don't even see it in the older players so much now and, to be honest, it's got to be all or none. The spirit that brought the Swans back from the brink started with Paul Kelly, was cemented by Stuart Maxfield and carved in stone by Brett Kirk. The Bloods culture infused the whole team. That's why it worked. They all bought in to the fight. They were the 22 musketeers. All for one and one for all. You touched one Blood and the other took it very personally. In the 2014 GF no one seemed to give a tinker's cuss about the hits on their team mates. LRT would have gone over and thumped the entire Hawks team.
bungee great post mate it was a complete reversal from 2012.
Remember Goodes on one knee bumping Buddy, Mitchell and especially Hodge had more bandages than a egyptian mummy we hit them hard that day.
Fast forward to 2014 Roughead crunching Hanners, Lake crunching Buddy in every contest all legal of course but where was the fightback? none.
Never gonna forget the image of Jetta on the morning of the GF coming out of the hotel with a dummy in his mouth i mean really who does that?
Remember Goodes on one knee bumping Buddy, Mitchell and especially Hodge had more bandages than a egyptian mummy we hit them hard that day.
Fast forward to 2014 Roughead crunching Hanners, Lake crunching Buddy in every contest all legal of course but where was the fightback? none.
Never gonna forget the image of Jetta on the morning of the GF coming out of the hotel with a dummy in his mouth i mean really who does that?
The whole year? gonna disagree there thought he had a reasonable season and thought his 2 finals were quite good.
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Enter 2015 Tom Mitchell
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Thats why I think jones needs to be in team he's hard at both ball and man.
Tom Mitchell is a great player for his age but he's no ROK. Heeney has no runs on the board at all. Come finals time if we fail it will (most likely) be our younger players who fall.
List turnover is a rebuilding and therefore risky business. Replacing tried and tested (NS medallist), 300+ games best tackler, monster ruckman, hardest swingman in the business (and should have been NS)...well, guys like these aren't just replaced without taking a backwards step. These type of guys win finals.
Go back and watch the 2012 premiership. It was the experienced players who stood up.
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Not a bad footy brain when your serious Bunghole, summed it all up perfectly. We need to do to them what they did to us. I don't care if they beat us in the H&A season, just get them when it counts.
I did think of Jones. Got a bit of mongrel that boy.
The point is, a team full of talent is as good as GWS. It's a team full of guts that wins premierships.
Thanks Bedders but it was just luck that I watched the 2012 PF and that match really struck a chord, more so than the GF where it's all a bit emotional. You could really see what had changed in the team and the roles these guys played.
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They all got to start somewhere , Mitchell will be fine
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