Opinion Swap Carlisle & Hurley

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Bomberblitzer said:
I want Carlisle back. JC/Hurley/Hooker would be the best defensive spine in the AFL by far. Fletcher the spare man with Hibberd, Gleeson and Baguley playing lockdown and rebound.

My ideal forward line:

FF Ambrose Daniher Winderlich
HF Chapman Bellchambers Hardingham

Players like Watson, Goddard et al rotating through there when required. It gives us enough marking power (Daniher equal first in contested marks, we know Bellchambers is reliable) and enough mobility with Ambrose/Winders/Chappy/Hardy/rotating mid. The most important thing, though, is that our forwards lead at the ball and our midfielders deliver it properly. They both need to click with each other - hopefully that happens soon.
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If you're going to play a 7 man defence (even without Dempsey) and a 6 man forward line are we going to cheat with 19 on the ground or will we be one short in the midfield?

I think long term Hurley, Carlilse and Hooker are an awesome backline with such a huge range of skills and sizes. They can only play that if Fletch can still play genuinely small, which I'm not sure that he can. I also like that forwardline, but not this year. Carlisle should play forward in place of Daniher while we wait for Daniher to put some more size on and while Ambrose is missing with injury or needs to develop a little more, it will be up and down for him this year, Hurley should play forward for him.

So for this week with Ambrose out and Daniher playing then Carlisle down back and Hurley up forward. When Ambrose comes back they swap Hurely an Carlisle with Daniher going out. If Daniher is more effective than Fletcher towards the end of the year (or Fletch is missing) then Daniher comes in and both Carlisle and Hurley play back. Fletch put out to pasture at the end of the year, or remains as solely a depth player who is also a playing coach in the VFL.

When Dempsey is back he suits up alongside the two Franga boys. While Dempsey's out Winderlich plays down back and Gleeson plays forward, sub or not at all. If everyone was available and playing in form I'd pick

B Fletcher Hooker Baguely
HB Hibberd Hurley Dempsey

HF Ambrose Carlisle Chapman
F Winderlich Bellchambers Goddard/Watson(and other mids)
 

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Carlisle has had to learn two roles this year, forward and ruck. Give the guy a break ffs!
Who on this forum thought that he wouldn't have a few bad games early on while learning the forward role? Who would have thought before round one that he would successfully learn two new roles in the first 5 weeks without having a few bad games?
 
scezza said:
What?!?! He coached arguably the greatest team of the modern era and you don't want us to replicate their practices? I want our players to push to be as good as Geelong at all aspects of their game, including and especially professionalism and recovery...
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As good as Geelong in 2006 or 2009? Bomber coached both...

I see us more (development wise) as the 2006 incarnation.. you know the one that almost saw Bomber sacked cause they were so bad.. it was at that time the Geelong hierarchy pointed out to Bomber that he had to lead more.. and rely on them doing it by themselves less.. I was living in the Geelong at that time and it was pretty big news down there.. suffice to say.. I don't care.. I want to be ESSENDON not mini model of Geelong..
 
rines said:
As good as Geelong in 2006 or 2009? Bomber coached both...

I see us more (development wise) as the 2006 incarnation.. you know the one that almost saw Bomber sacked cause they were so bad.. it was at that time the Geelong hierarchy pointed out to Bomber that he had to lead more.. and rely on them doing it by themselves less.. I was living in the Geelong at that time and it was pretty big news down there.. suffice to say.. I don't care.. I want to be ESSENDON not mini model of Geelong..
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Dunno if you saw Open Mike last night, but Cam Mooney said that Bomber was going through some personal problems in 2006.

Besides, the next year they picked up their act in a huge way.
 
rines said:
As good as Geelong in 2006 or 2009? Bomber coached both...

I see us more (development wise) as the 2006 incarnation.. you know the one that almost saw Bomber sacked cause they were so bad.. it was at that time the Geelong hierarchy pointed out to Bomber that he had to lead more.. and rely on them doing it by themselves less.. I was living in the Geelong at that time and it was pretty big news down there.. suffice to say.. I don't care.. I want to be ESSENDON not mini model of Geelong..
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I'm happy to be a mini model of Geelong if it brings 3 flags in 5 years, but I take your point.
 
bomberman16 said:
Hurley and Carlisle both play better down back. IMO, play them both down back and alternate TBell and Paddy between Ruck and Forward to assist Jo Daniher, Hardingham and Winderlich.
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So which one of Hooker or Fletcher are you dropping?
 
bomberman16 said:
.......Hook..tcher...
yeah OK i got nothing, didn't consider that. I stand by what I said initially though, they both play better down back. I can't see Fletch retiring anytime soon at this point yet either.
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Yeah no doubt that they all play better in defence, unfortunately they cant all line up there
 

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fishardansin said:
If you're going to play a 7 man defence (even without Dempsey) and a 6 man forward line are we going to cheat with 19 on the ground or will we be one short in the midfield?

I think long term Hurley, Carlilse and Hooker are an awesome backline with such a huge range of skills and sizes. They can only play that if Fletch can still play genuinely small, which I'm not sure that he can. I also like that forwardline, but not this year. Carlisle should play forward in place of Daniher while we wait for Daniher to put some more size on and while Ambrose is missing with injury or needs to develop a little more, it will be up and down for him this year, Hurley should play forward for him.

So for this week with Ambrose out and Daniher playing then Carlisle down back and Hurley up forward. When Ambrose comes back they swap Hurely an Carlisle with Daniher going out. If Daniher is more effective than Fletcher towards the end of the year (or Fletch is missing) then Daniher comes in and both Carlisle and Hurley play back. Fletch put out to pasture at the end of the year, or remains as solely a depth player who is also a playing coach in the VFL.

When Dempsey is back he suits up alongside the two Franga boys. While Dempsey's out Winderlich plays down back and Gleeson plays forward, sub or not at all. If everyone was available and playing in form I'd pick

B Fletcher Hooker Baguely
HB Hibberd Hurley Dempsey

HF Ambrose Carlisle Chapman
F Winderlich Bellchambers Goddard/Watson(and other mids)
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Most of the time I would have us go the spare man back and have one less forward on the ground. Against some teams we might be able to get away with one less midfielder, very situational and form-dependent though.

I hate how we've robbed Peter to pay Paul with this one. Carlisle was AA-form last year and now he's become average forward/ruck by necessity. We've toyed with form and structure and it has backfired big time in my opinion. I believe we should trial this back line (with the extra man in Gleeson/Dempsey also down there):

FB Hooker Hurley Baguley
HB Fletcher Carlisle Hibberd

I do think that we can get away with the tall back line. A more permanent 7 man defence would make this happen, as we'd have Hibberd, Baguley, Fletcher, Dempsey (Gleeson on the bench) for the smaller/medium forwards, and Hooker, JC, Hurley for the three talls.

Probably wouldn't work, but I'd give it a shot as we're not gaining anything currently by having an A-grade defender languishing in the forward line.
 
Loonerty said:
This is essentially what got us into the Carlisle forward situation!

I posted that Carlisle hadn't shown enough to be a full time forward /yaco
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It was the coach who swapped Carlisle and Hurley. It was probably the correct decision considering all circumstances. I suggested Hooker as a stop gap measure for a week or two. As BTG says it's getting three defenders into two defensive spots and one Forward spot.
 
It was interesting watching the Hawks VS Geelong. Geelong suffocated Hawks exits from defence, but EVEN on a bad day once the Hawks got the ball forward of centre, they hit targets in the forward 50. This is because Hawks forwards are always on the move. And once there was a half chance hawks players pulled the trigger. This is something we can learn.
 
yaco55 said:
It was interesting watching the Hawks VS Geelong. Geelong suffocated Hawks exits from defence, but EVEN on a bad day once the Hawks got the ball forward of centre, they hit targets in the forward 50. This is because Hawks forwards are always on the move. And once there was a half chance hawks players pulled the trigger. This is something we can learn.
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This was a big issue against the Saints.
 
Let's not rush into anything just yet. Yes Carlisle played terrible against Fremantle and st Kilda, but he was mainly rucking those games. Round one he had 7 marks 19 possessions and 2 behinds. Round 2 he had 10 marks 16 possessions and 2 goals 2 behinds. Since half way through that hawthorn game he has had to also be our ruckman. When you have to ruck and your body hasn't been trained for it I imagine it would be hard to have a impact. He's not big enough to ruck. I think until we see him mainly playing forward we don't change anything. he was a great Backman and I also see potential as a chf too, so let's not rush him to the back line just yet.
 
Hurley FB, Carlisle CHB and Hooker plays that loose, floating "Michael Johnson" role intercepting I50s and helping his fellow defenders out?
Hooks has a great spoil/mark on him and has tidied up his kicking, plus he wont be expected to drill bullet passes out of defence he just has to mark, chip kick sideways or handballs out to Dempsey/Hibberd.

Above assumption of course is post-Fletch.
 
yaco55 said:
It's a worry if Carlisle's manager has been called into a meeting. Is Carlisle losing his head ?
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I would imagine it would be more along the lines of Carlisle doesn't appreciate being forced to play out of position.. and then get flamed in the media.

s**t is about to get serious..

I feel like some people are forgetting just how good Carlisle was for large patches last year...
 
BTG is right.. we have 3 key backmen and we want/need one of them to play forward.. which is never going to be perfect...

However if you were to judge Carlisle and Hurley on exposed form:
Carlisle as a defender: 8/10
Hurley as a defender:7.5/10
Carlisle as a forward: 3/10
Hurley as a forward:5.5/10

Thus if you have them with Hurley forward and Carlisle back.. you get 13.5/20.. if you play it as is.. you get 10.5/20...

For me it is really that simple.
 
FootyGuru said:
Let's not rush into anything just yet. Yes Carlisle played terrible against Fremantle and st Kilda, but he was mainly rucking those games. Round one he had 7 marks 19 possessions and 2 behinds. Round 2 he had 10 marks 16 possessions and 2 goals 2 behinds. Since half way through that hawthorn game he has had to also be our ruckman. When you have to ruck and your body hasn't been trained for it I imagine it would be hard to have a impact. He's not big enough to ruck. I think until we see him mainly playing forward we don't change anything. he was a great Backman and I also see potential as a chf too, so let's not rush him to the back line just yet.
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I'm going to read that again. I am also going to say that Hurley is a better match up for Cloke.
 
rines said:
I would imagine it would be more along the lines of Carlisle doesn't appreciate being forced to play out of position.. and then get flamed in the media.

s**t is about to get serious..

I feel like some people are forgetting just how good Carlisle was for large patches last year...
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If we lose Carlisle over this s**t...
 
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