Sydney AFL - 2012

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justabaraker

All Australian
Mar 28, 2012
867
117
cherrybrook
AFL Club
GWS
weekend tips

Tuesday & Thursday from 1815. You know you want to. Our eldest player is 50 next month, so age shall not weary them!

Hey wow - that'll make the 9yo Auskick-ers want to sign up !!!


Come on punters.....show us ya tips........I say:-

Dragons to beat Campbelltown
Illawarra to beat UTS
Easts Bulldogs to beat Wests
Eagles to beat Students
Balmain to beat Penno
 

justabaraker

All Australian
Mar 28, 2012
867
117
cherrybrook
AFL Club
GWS
Re: divisionalisation

originally posted by Magpie 03 >
[they AFL has spent close to 2mil on a new ground at Casula less than ten k from Rosedale and are in process of manufacturing a new junior club in a region that is already struggling for numbers.

Magpie, sorry to hear what you say - I thought it was just the older age teams that were struggling and it's disappointing to hear that the juniors are finding it tough too.
Poor old Garry B is going to be a busy boy if he has to get the SW juniors sorted out, AND oversee more Coasties coming in AND run the cricket comp on the coast AND be timekeeper on the coast - I said he seemed like a competent fella but I didn't mean to dob him in like this !!

Magpie, I thought I knew about the new AFL playing fields being developed or just finished in the Sydney region but I didn't know about Casula....didn't even know that it's <10km from Rosedale...nor where Rosedale is.
What's Casula like ? Full size ? good playing surface ? change sheds ? And does the AFL have the say-so over who uses it and when ?
 

Magpie03

Team Captain
May 16, 2007
306
98
sydney
AFL Club
Carlton
The new ground is a junior ground with a turf wicket I believe along with all weather basketball courts- the lighting towers are up and club rooms done - havent yet been out to have a look at it but at least it is in a new housing development and not hidden like Rosedale is. Rosedale is located behind warrick farm racecourse amongst the stables. The distance between the grounds is less the 6.5k as the crow flies.

The other ground recently built is Kokoda however it has no amenties nor lighting and the club that was going to be based there is now located at greenway park.

Im all for building new facilities however given the current dire straight of the juniors in the SWS region I think the people responsible for our game have been watching too many Kevin Costner movies.
 

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Aug 5, 2004
1,686
1,446
FAR WEST SYDNEY
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Sturt, West Perth
The new ground is a junior ground with a turf wicket I believe along with all weather basketball courts- the lighting towers are up and club rooms done - havent yet been out to have a look at it but at least it is in a new housing development and not hidden like Rosedale is. Rosedale is located behind warrick farm racecourse amongst the stables. The distance between the grounds is less the 6.5k as the crow flies.

The other ground recently built is Kokoda however it has no amenties nor lighting and the club that was going to be based there is now located at greenway park.

Im all for building new facilities however given the current dire straight of the juniors in the SWS region I think the people responsible for our game have been watching too many Kevin Costner movies.

The Postman?
 

justabaraker

All Australian
Mar 28, 2012
867
117
cherrybrook
AFL Club
GWS
Re: divisionalisation

It appears the arguments for retaining the struggling teams in the Premier level are:
* They have always been there and will not agree to demotion
* They represent an area that is strategically important to the AFL
* The Div 1 teams have not met the criteria for promotionquote]


Can anyone else offer a reason as to why Premier Division is exempt from the promotion/relegation system ? OFTENCONFUSED put the arguments as per above but I don't think even he quite accepted that they were valid !

Over the past 15 years or so, every premier division team has had their turn to bottom out, and to be at the top - that variation would work in nicely with a promotion/relegation system
 

justabaraker

All Australian
Mar 28, 2012
867
117
cherrybrook
AFL Club
GWS
Re: weekend tips

[quote=justabaraker;24227727]

Come on punters.....show us ya tips........I say:-

Dragons to beat Campbelltown
Illawarra to beat UTS
Easts Bulldogs to beat Wests
Eagles to beat Students
Balmain to beat Penno[/quote]

???????????????
 
Jul 17, 2008
23
2
Sydney
AFL Club
St Kilda
Re: divisionalisation

Can anyone else offer a reason as to why Premier Division is exempt from the promotion/relegation system ? OFTENCONFUSED put the arguments as per above but I don't think even he quite accepted that they were valid !

Over the past 15 years or so, every premier division team has had their turn to bottom out, and to be at the top - that variation would work in nicely with a promotion/relegation system

===============
JB, I am certainly reluctant to find merit in a system that does not support merit. While I recognise the desire to protect certain geographic regions that are currently under-performing on the field, what must be recognised is the broader truth of Newton's third law of motion, that is that the support may assist a region, but it has a similar negative effect on the region denied the opportunity. Absent the relegation aspect, the 'Premier Division' will be loaded with teams and continue to support inequality in contests. That inequality must by its nature exist both in the results at the lower end of the Premier Div and the higher end of Div one.
 

justabaraker

All Australian
Mar 28, 2012
867
117
cherrybrook
AFL Club
GWS
Re: divisionalisation

===============
JB, I am certainly reluctant to find merit in a system that does not support merit. While I recognise the desire to protect certain geographic regions that are currently under-performing on the field, what must be recognised is the broader truth of Newton's third law of motion, that is that the support may assist a region, but it has a similar negative effect on the region denied the opportunity. Absent the relegation aspect, the 'Premier Division' will be loaded with teams and continue to support inequality in contests. That inequality must by its nature exist both in the results at the lower end of the Premier Div and the higher end of Div one.

Perhaps it's a reluctance to take the "hard decisions".
In the time that I have been following Sydney footy, the only teams to go DOWN were Sydney Uni (voluntary in about 1996) and Swans Reserves who I think went to the VFL in about 2000. If we had a promotion/relegation system then the weakest would go down and that would be tough to carry through on after all these years.
Easy enough to PROMOTE teams (Illawarra, Sydney Uni and UTS) because that's a good news story.
But hard to dump the under-performers who have been around forever,
 
Jul 17, 2008
23
2
Sydney
AFL Club
St Kilda
Re: divisionalisation

Perhaps it's a reluctance to take the "hard decisions".
In the time that I have been following Sydney footy, the only teams to go DOWN were Sydney Uni (voluntary in about 1996) and Swans Reserves who I think went to the VFL in about 2000. If we had a promotion/relegation system then the weakest would go down and that would be tough to carry through on after all these years.
Easy enough to PROMOTE teams (Illawarra, Sydney Uni and UTS) because that's a good news story.
But hard to dump the under-performers who have been around forever,

It would appear that the administrators are going to have a to make a decision, for next season very shortly. The position at the top of Div 1 is:

1 MANLY WARRINGAH % = 478.79
2 SOUTHERN POWER % = 319.07
3 PENRITH % = 100.94

That is a serious Gap while at the bottom of the Premier Div the ladder displays for the bottom 5 teams:
7 SYDNEY HILLS EAGLES % = 59.68
8 ILLAWARRA % = 81.27
9 SYDNEY UNIVERSITY % = 56.82
10 WESTERN SUBURBS % = 47.09
11 CAMPBELLTOWN % = 34.73

It does not appear to be sustainable for teams to continue to have huge wins / losses. I see Manly has won by 156, 61 and 197 in the last three weeks. Similarly, only one week has passed in Premier level without a 100 point flogging (and that week had wins of about 90 points and 70 points). It must be difficult for teams in both competitions to maintain high levels of effort after quarter time in any of these games.
 
Aug 5, 2004
1,686
1,446
FAR WEST SYDNEY
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Sturt, West Perth
The bullet must be bit and soon. Manly are far and away on top, and would do a better job (in my opinion only) than a few others down the bottom of Prems. While SHE and SU are playing their 2s in Prems they aren't going to dominate like they did in previous years, so the comp (top half anyway) has evened out, with UTS now at the top end of the top grade. It can't hurt to give Manly a year up and one of the under-performing clubs a year down (C'town would be first cab, and it is inevitable anyway)as long as they can find a better venue than Weldon, despite it's redevelopment, it's still not Premier material. Manly Oval, similar to how UTS secured Waverley, should be the long term vision.
 

desie

Club Legend
Mar 15, 2004
2,979
3,892
Gumnut Cottage
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
The Arsenal, GWS Giants
Having seen Manly close up when Penrith played them, they're certainly very impressive. I can't believe they wouldn't beat the Wests and Towns of the world, and Southern Power clearly aren't far behind them going by results.

Problem for both is that their grounds aren't up to the same standard as their teams.

The rest of the First Division competition is very even though.
 

justabaraker

All Australian
Mar 28, 2012
867
117
cherrybrook
AFL Club
GWS
Re: Sydney AFL ovals

Playing venues - that's always been the big stumbling block, hasn't it ?

PEKAY - is Manly Oval the union ground at the bottom of the hill close to the Manly Corso ? It's small, it sure ain't an "oval" shape but it might be the best hope.

Are you all thinking that a team couldn't get promoted to Premier Division unless they can BYO venue ? Perhaps that's why there isn't promotion/relegation in Premier Division.

Of course, the AFL has had this same issue in Melbourne and they have sorted it out by "ground rationalisation". Perhaps that might be the plan here. I did a count one day and came up with 16 grounds in the Sydney area that the AFL is or has recently built or developed. And, of course, with investment dollars comes control over who uses the ground and under what conditions (as per the announcement over the weekend of new facilities at Homebush).
So, it might be that the SydneyAFL "ground rationalises" to maxx out the usage of, say, Henson, Gipps Road, BISP (both grounds). Manly might play home games at Henson and the up-and-coming Norwest Jets might play their Premier Division home games at Gipps Road ! (Not for a couple of years though....)
That's just me dreaming up scenarios, but, when you look at some of the crap Premier grounds - Cherrybrook, Uni No 1, Wagener, Trumper, Village Green - then you'd be forgiven for thinking that a whole lot needs to be done. And, with 17 new or improved venues in the pipeline, it might even happen !
....dreaming up scenarios again.......
 
Aug 5, 2004
1,686
1,446
FAR WEST SYDNEY
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Sturt, West Perth
That's the one, bottom of the big hill. I haven't been past there in at least 10 years, so the size escapes me, but for an exposure POV it would be perfect.

And, we have no intention or desire of Premier Division in the short or long term. We have SHEagles on our doorstep, and the next logical would be Penrith or Parra. We are but a small humble country footy club out here, adds to the mystique!
 

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Jul 23, 2009
27
0
Re: Sydney AFL ovals

I did a count one day and came up with 16 grounds in the Sydney area that the AFL is or has recently built or developed. And, of course, with investment dollars comes control over who uses the ground and under what conditions (as per the announcement over the weekend of new facilities at Homebush).

Like to know the 16 grounds recently developed. I thinks the AFL just tell people they have developed grounds. My take is that improvements are primarily driven by the clubs and councils.

Other than BISP and Gipps Rd, developed for the Giants along with, of course, Purser (mostly funded by council). Walk another step west of Blacktown and you fall off the edge of the world, in the AFL eyes. Are there still facilities guys working for the AFL, come to think of it.
 

Magpie03

Team Captain
May 16, 2007
306
98
sydney
AFL Club
Carlton
Re: Sydney AFL ovals

Like to know the 16 grounds recently developed. I thinks the AFL just tell people they have developed grounds. My take is that improvements are primarily driven by the clubs and councils.

Other than BISP and Gipps Rd, developed for the Giants along with, of course, Purser (mostly funded by council). Walk another step west of Blacktown and you fall off the edge of the world, in the AFL eyes. Are there still facilities guys working for the AFL, come to think of it.

Have to agree - also find it funny how one AFL employee told me Rosedale was a bit of a goat track late last year based upon his decades old experience yet only a week ago commented to someone on it being one of the best decks going around.
 
Aug 5, 2004
1,686
1,446
FAR WEST SYDNEY
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Sturt, West Perth
Re: Sydney AFL ovals

Have to agree - also find it funny how one AFL employee told me Rosedale was a bit of a goat track late last year based upon his decades old experience yet only a week ago commented to someone on it being one of the best decks going around.

Perhaps referring to the old goat in the long sleeve guernsey!
 

justabaraker

All Australian
Mar 28, 2012
867
117
cherrybrook
AFL Club
GWS
And, we have no intention or desire of Premier Division in the short or long term. We have SHEagles on our doorstep, and the next logical would be Penrith or Parra. We are but a small humble country footy club out here, adds to the mystique!

Pekay, on the money again I reckon !
I've watched SHEagles as a premier division club, and now as a NEAFL team.....I have absolutely no affiliation with them so I speak only for myself but, tell you what, I'd rather be in Premier division any day ! There's a lot to be said for being a humble footy club and avoiding the horrors of NEAFL.
But, hey that's just my personal observation, and has no connection to what the SHEagles feel or say.
 

justabaraker

All Australian
Mar 28, 2012
867
117
cherrybrook
AFL Club
GWS
Re: Sydney AFL ovals

[quote=hamish crayfish;24374202]Like to know the 16 grounds recently developed. I thinks the AFL just tell people they have developed grounds. My take is that improvements are primarily driven by the clubs and councils.quote]

My list was compiled during a vexed arvo at the footy, leading into a far more vexed evening of commiseration, impromptu therapy and ultimately to man-love. You know how it goes......
No hard copy exists of the whole thing but this is what I reckon we came up with. I think I've forgotten a couple and I have added a couple that came to me through this forum. Can't confirm absolutely that it's a correct list - who can know these things anyway ? It's a list of grounds that the AFL has put money into and thereby becomes a stakeholder...

North Dalton
Telstra
Cherrybrook
SCG
Alan Davidson (uncertain)
Bruce Purser
Kokoda
Picken
Casula
Skoda
Skoda Mark II
Mahoney Park
BISP (x2)
Olds Park
Henson
Gipps Road
 

justabaraker

All Australian
Mar 28, 2012
867
117
cherrybrook
AFL Club
GWS
Re: Sydney AFL ovals

Other than BISP and Gipps Rd, developed for the Giants along with, of course, Purser (mostly funded by council). Walk another step west of Blacktown and you fall off the edge of the world, in the AFL eyes. Are there still facilities guys working for the AFL, come to think of it.

I've heard a few posters saying the same thing about the lack of progress in the west. You'd like to think that the whole GWS project is all about developing AFL in the west - we are impatient but it seems that the AFL has it in their sights.
 

desie

Club Legend
Mar 15, 2004
2,979
3,892
Gumnut Cottage
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
The Arsenal, GWS Giants
And, we have no intention or desire of Premier Division in the short or long term. We have SHEagles on our doorstep, and the next logical would be Penrith or Parra. We are but a small humble country footy club out here, adds to the mystique!

I know that it was mooted a number of years ago and will never happen, but I would have thought realistically the best way for the region to have a Premier Division presence would be a joint venture side between Penrith, Parra and Nor West, playing their home games at BISP. Each club could maintain their own identities in the lower divisions.

The best possible team between the three clubs would probably go alright.
 

Magpie03

Team Captain
May 16, 2007
306
98
sydney
AFL Club
Carlton
Re: Sydney AFL ovals

[quote=hamish crayfish;24374202]Like to know the 16 grounds recently developed. I thinks the AFL just tell people they have developed grounds. My take is that improvements are primarily driven by the clubs and councils.quote]

My list was compiled during a vexed arvo at the footy, leading into a far more vexed evening of commiseration, impromptu therapy and ultimately to man-love. You know how it goes......
No hard copy exists of the whole thing but this is what I reckon we came up with. I think I've forgotten a couple and I have added a couple that came to me through this forum. Can't confirm absolutely that it's a correct list - who can know these things anyway ? It's a list of grounds that the AFL has put money into and thereby becomes a stakeholder...

North Dalton
Telstra
Cherrybrook
SCG
Alan Davidson (uncertain)
Bruce Purser
Kokoda
Picken
Casula
Skoda
Skoda Mark II
Mahoney Park
BISP (x2)
Olds Park
Henson
Gipps Road

Kokoda is a joke - massive was of money unfortunately - no facilities unless you count a portaloo, no lights and to top it off no team.
 
Jul 17, 2008
23
2
Sydney
AFL Club
St Kilda
Re: Sydney AFL ovals

I have gone away and done my research and do not understand the issue with the Weldon ground, while it was a Goat track it has had a couple of million dollars injected, which had it compacted, drained, levelled etc and has lights that deliver 200lux. I am also told it is longer than the SCG and wider than ANZ. I understand facilities not finished but they are big improvement as well by all accounts. While it is no Bruce Purser or BISP it must be better than many other venues in Sydney.
 

Magpie03

Team Captain
May 16, 2007
306
98
sydney
AFL Club
Carlton
Re: Sydney AFL ovals

I have gone away and done my research and do not understand the issue with the Weldon ground, while it was a Goat track it has had a couple of million dollars injected, which had it compacted, drained, levelled etc and has lights that deliver 200lux. I am also told it is longer than the SCG and wider than ANZ. I understand facilities not finished but they are big improvement as well by all accounts. While it is no Bruce Purser or BISP it must be better than many other venues in Sydney.

Sorry but from what I saw last weekend the council wasted its money - surface is now level but other than that is rubbish - still a very short and narrow ground.
 
Aug 5, 2004
1,686
1,446
FAR WEST SYDNEY
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Sturt, West Perth
Re: Sydney AFL ovals

Sorry but from what I saw last weekend the council wasted its money - surface is now level but other than that is rubbish - still a very short and narrow ground.

Sure they have got rid of the undulating surface, and it has improved no doubt, but with that comes an enormous amount of traffic running on it. When we played there a few weeks back, they had Div 5, Div 4, 18s, Div 2 and Div 1 on it back to back. The surface was rough when we played our Div 4 fixture, so can only imagine how bad it got after that.
 
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