Sydney Cricket Ground (SCG) - Discussion
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Croweater
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Spot on, a drop in pitch may enable the Sydney test to go more than 3 days.
Perhaps if the Swans could gaurantee more home games + some finals, it would be worth it financially to the trust.
But as i posted before this comment below from the chairman of the SCG is just very thinly veiled hostility, well actually, it is not even thinly veiled, probably a rugger man who hates football.
that even if the Sydney Cricket Ground was the last cricket ground in the world that had a traditional wicket, it would remain the last cricket ground in the world.
The Chairman's an old fart who obviously can't handle progression.
The new stand was provided partly because of what the AFL brings to the table. Hell, in addition to the SCG; the MCG, Gabba and the Adelaide Oval wouldn't be what they are today without football.
The guy needs to get the stick out of his arse and get with the times. His stubbornness and opposition to progress is baffling. And to the rest of you on here; people who get overly nostalgic and use their heart rather than their minds don't get anywhere.
I get that the wickets are different. But a drop in wicket can have its own point of difference. Climate, soil composition and density, you name it. It will have its own identifiers.
And sure, preserve the old grandstands. Keep some historic parts intact. But being a multi-use venue, you need to cater for the organisations that bring in revenue. Which is what Adelaide Oval is doing.
And people say that Adelaide is old fashioned. At least we're progressing.
Even with a drop in pitch the SCG would still be a cricket ground
I dare say a true traditionalist might argue that the SCG stopped being a cricket ground when they started covering pitches....
Ray Illingworth, the former England captain, played most of his career on uncovered pitches, and was a big fan. "They produced better batters and bowlers," he wrote in his autobiography, arguing that bowlers learned to exploit helpful conditions, and batsmen to hone their techniques.
Uncovered pitches in England were phased out in the 1960s - something Richie Benaud blames for the decline of the wrist-spinner. Since then, with the exception of some indecently raging turners at Northampton, the only luxuries afforded English bowlers have been greentops, leaving mediocre seamers to grab all the wickets and spinners to fight over the scraps.
Bomber Bears
Cancelled
And so is the SCG, in catering for cricket
You keep repeating that, but perhaps you can put up some statistics and facts that prove that cricket far and away provides more income over football.
Or else i guess we can just assume that you are just cheap trolling.
The new stands were built on the assumption that football will also pay them off.
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I think, and this might be a narrow thing to say, but the new stand just yearns for too much attention. The focal point, the most famed part of the ground, are those two beautiful old stands. The old redevelopment was boring on its own, but it served its purpose and didn't detract from the beauty of those old stands. This new one demands too much attention and it just convolutes the way the SCG looks.
Basically, I just think it's over the top. It's this bombastic design that'd be cool for a brand new stadium or the Gabba or something, but not the SCG.
Basically, I just think it's over the top. It's this bombastic design that'd be cool for a brand new stadium or the Gabba or something, but not the SCG.
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How is suggesting that a cricket pitch stays on a cricket ground trolling? The pitches that most AFL stars would have played on in their junior years.
Just because someone has a different opinion to you doesn't make them wrong or trolling.
Looks wise I think the new stand could have been better but is still ok.
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I reckon it will look great once it's actually fully complete
I am not suggesting that the SCG not be a cricket ground, who is ?, i am suggesting that if it is financially viable and that a good cricket wicket can be laid ( dropped in ) then what exactly is the issue.
I have also suggested that before he gets his knickers in a knot, to look at objectively at what cricket and football provide as a % of the total stadium (SCG) income, he seems to have no idea, nor care, which IMO is pretty juvenile.
At a pinch i would say cricket provides more income, but if the Swans played all home games and finals there, it may be different.
And IMO, Bomber Bears is a troll, he does not want to engage in any sort of a serious convo, his MO is just a flat NO....... the SCG is a cricket ground !!, perhaps he is actually Rodney Cavellier !.
He takes Rodneys position ...... that even if the Sydney Cricket Ground was the last cricket ground in the world that had a traditional wicket, it would remain the last cricket ground in the world.
Brenton Davy
Brownlow Medallist
Darren Lehmann begs to differ
Bomber Bears
Cancelled
I've mentioned on here numerous times that, given the massive difference in ticket prices across a test match compared to AFL, + the ODI's and big bash tickets, i'd suggest the SCG more than any other ground in the country would earn its income from cricket compared to AFL. I also think that, in the interests of protecting their income, they wouldn't want to piss off what is a traditionally cricket based membership by my changes that hurt cricket.
And they didn't build this stand for AFL, they bought it to renew and expand their members area.
As numerous people have stated, the two pitches that are currently drop ins had the least to lose out of the old wickets in the country. Melbourne was slow and low before a drop in, Adelaide was flat. Even in the Adelaide example, however, the pitch didn't spin as it traditionally used to. In the shield it has been utterly lifeless. This is a concern for people who want good cricket played.
But when it comes to Perth (talk of the WACA being replaced with the new venue), Brisbane (AFL wants a drop in) or Sydney (ditto) these are pitches that traditionally test cricketers in all aspects of the game. Brisbane (IMO generally the best wicket of the lot) seams around early, allows batsmen who play themselves in to plunder on days two or three before becoming difficult to play on again. Perth provides the sort of bounce and carry we've yet to see from a drop in, and makes for entertaining cricket. Sydney in recent years has provided value for pace bowlers early, again rewards patient, good batting and breaks up, testing anyone against the spinners on offer. A drop in wicket is unlikely to break up in the manner the SCG did, or crack and and remain fast as anything as Perth did.
Compromising a traditionally sporting pitch for something that is likely to just hold together for days on end hurts cricket. Boring, batsmen dominated contests will kill the sport off. So from that point of view there is no way I (or most cricket fans) want these wickets to change.
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Or you can over water a pitch to the point that a test is over in 3 days. Pitches have always been more about the curator than the pitch itself.
I agree that if cricket was to somehow be a loser out of a drop in pitch, then it is not a great idea, but having said that, the SCG test and wicket was actually the most criticised of all five this summer.
I would be pretty confident that a drop in pitch in Sydney would match the curent one they have now. ( or of years gone by)
I dont agree that the new stand was built without the idea of making more money from Swans, and having them as tenants pay the stand off.
And i agree with Wookie, the wickets are really about the curator and staff and their expertise.
I reckon the best compromise would be uncovered drop-ins.
The real cricket traditionalists would see the back of covered pitches which Illingworth complained were a hindrance to good batting and bowling skills, particularly the development and nurturing of leg spin bowling.
While footballers of all codes and various other users of these multi-sport arenas would also appreciate the extra give in the ground.
The real cricket traditionalists would see the back of covered pitches which Illingworth complained were a hindrance to good batting and bowling skills, particularly the development and nurturing of leg spin bowling.
While footballers of all codes and various other users of these multi-sport arenas would also appreciate the extra give in the ground.
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Obviously you don't follow cricket at all, as AO was clearly the most criticised pitch all summer, the only criticism about the SCG pitch I've read or heard is in this thread.
But one point that has been bought up several times that you haven't answered. Most AFL players would play on ovals where cricket pitches stay in all year round in their junior days, if they can't handle a cricket pitch in the middle, how did they become a professional?
I think its about being a professional sportsman and minimising the risk of injury and or jarring.
I'm sure you would know the argument by now. You get to become a professional by being very good I would think.
Don't know where you went to school but most of the grounds I played on as a kid had one concrete pitch in the middle covered with a mound of sand in winter. Can't say I played on a centre wicket square 30m by 20m rolled constantly over summer in my school days.
As for "AO was clearly the most criticised pitch all summer" you have to be joking. It was a good pitch, great fast bowling and good batting were rewarded, the opposite was not. I haven't heard any criticism of it. Then again I tend to mute the anti-drop-in crew when they start droning on with half-baked theories.
Obviously the Australian coach doesn't know what he is talking about
, should he give you a ring.Darren Lehmann has taken a swipe at the presentation of the SCG wicket
Of course the other thing is, and i have mentioned it before is that junior kids dont play with the same intensity, physicality and with the same fitness base as professional AFL players, should we revert to country cow paddocks that some kids play on, some junior clubs have incredibly rough grounds.
When you reach the big show, i think you are entitled to play on professional grounds that represent the best practices available, are cricket pitches some sort of issue of H&S for AFL players ?, i would say in some cases they may be.
Um, no? There was a lot of curiosity about how the wicket would play leading up to the Adelaide test but by no means was it the most criticised.
Same, we played on grounds that usually had a concrete pitch covered by matting during football season.
A 20 X 30 pitch area devoid of grass can become very slippery, like glass.
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So using that logic we should ban tackling and all forms of physical contact in every AFL game.
After all it's all about minimising injuries, right
Edit: For the record I follow both Australian football and cricket and I can see both sides of the argument regarding drop ins. However the arrogance of some code war lovers using the argument about how any ground the AFL plays on must cater to everything the AFL wants is incredibly arrogant.
So using that logic we should ban tackling and all forms of physical contact in every AFL game.
After all it's all about minimising injuries, right
Edit: For the record I follow both Australian football and cricket and I can see both sides of the argument regarding drop ins. However the arrogance of some code war lovers using the argument about how any ground the AFL plays on must cater to everything the AFL wants is incredibly arrogant.
Its a contact sport, footy, but lots of things have changed over the years to make it safer for those who play it. This is just another thing that can help and if it doesn't cost too much and there is no discernable affect on cricket to an unbiased eye then why not?
The way I see it if you take the same dirt & the same grass & make the same preparation then you get the same wicket. Its a skill but its hardly splitting the atom.
Btw I was a better cricket player than a footballer and have followed both keenly for many years but the argument regarding drop-ins brings out the worst in cricket buffs who neatly forget that for most of test and first-class cricket history the game was played on uncovered pitches. Then they make out that a change to drop-ins will 'rune the game'.
