Review Sydney Swans vs North Melbourne - SCG 1.10pm

[J_Moore]

Haha. Yeah I'm not one for Grundy bashing but it wasn't his day and I saw that unfolding a mile away.

Saw a lot of stuff unfolding a mile away in that pocket. There was time to make a cup of tea while Buddy lined up the late hit on Thompson

 

[disgruntled goat]

Marketing = Money
Money = Better coaching team and facilities
Better coaching team and facilities = Better on field performance

Add to that the MASSIVE threat GWS and GC pose to Sydney in the next few years, and Buddy's marketability is INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT to Sydney's membership levels and success in the next few years. Especially if Sydney starts to slide, which they inevitably will, Buddy will help keep the attendance figures up as well. The importance of this cannot be stressed enough.

How else do you explain paying so much for what will probably be a 6 year contract? Because as good as he is, he is not worth anywhere near 10 mil for that period.

Even if the on field performance slides (which is quite possible), Buddy brings other positives to the team.

Personally, I dont like the deal. I dont think he suits our team culture. But I see why the Sydney management took the gamble - it is a business decision. I also wouldnt be surprised if it was suggested or supported by the AFL on the quiet.

BUSINESS.

The best way for a football club to boost business is to win football games.

Signing Franklin may well have been part "business"/part "win football games", but the size and length of the deal is the issue. In the very short term (ie, we win 1-2 flags in the next 3-5 years) some might see the decision as worthwhile, but it quickly becomes something far less than that if we do NOT win those flags because after that 3-5-year period any "window" closes dramatically due to having that money tied up in Franklin ... the club's capacity to chase big-name trades is compromised, and our own higher-rated young players, the ones we should be trying to keep, would be entitled to wonder what the club will choose to do with them in future negotiations (eg, Mumford, White, Everitt, Lamb as casualties of the Franklin deal).

I absolutely fckng HATE that the Franklin deal echoes the club's player business dealings of the bad old days of the very early 90s, where the short-term goal of putting bums on seats in the stands was more important than the longer-term goal of building a winning football club.

Fck "marketing"; a winning football team is what we want above ebverything else, certainly not just luring a few more fair-weather fans because "Buddy Franklin" (insert your choice of ig name player, present or future) is playing.

 

[disgruntled goat]

You don't just turn bad after all this time. There are players not firing who need to get the zest back. That's up to them.

Today was ordinary - but I know we can still compete at very high levels. We still have injuries to two stars and we are simply crap in bog conditions.

They'll turn it around.

You do if a group of players (not just 1 or 2 but maybe 6-8) are worn out, physically and mentally; have lost that hunger to keep playing for each other and the club, particularly if they're all quietly wondering how much the club now backs them. No one seems to want to acknowledge that what the club did in pursuing the Franklin deal went against almost 20 years of "all for one, one for all" culture.

 

[stevierayswan]

There is a serious and distinct lack of leadership the moment. Both McVeigh and Jack have been off their games all year, whether though illness or injury or personal reasons I don't know, but the fact is, we have minimal if any leadership out there at the moment. Leaders must be able to get their team up and inspire. Neither McVeigh nor Jack seem capable of doing this at the moment. Goodes I believe could and would, but he ain't there. Parker, Kennedy, McGlynn, Buddy, Teddy (albeit not a great year so far either but I think his effort is there) all trying hard but struggling because the team as a whole is struggling. Morale is at a massive low. Every loss we have from now will only capitulate that, with Freo, Hawks, Dons, Cats coming up. Even if we win Melb and Bris, that would be 3 wins at Rnd 11. Just watch Teddy's post game interview and listen to the disappointment in his voice and on his face. http://www.afl.com.au/video?guid=632728

 

[disgruntled goat]

Longmire has made some pretty public statements in support of the franklin deal. Said he watched the 2012 flag and saw a side playing at the absolute limits of their ability lucky to snatch a win on the day, basically.

Ha ... public statements. He's the coach, what do you think he's going to say??? Our medical staff have been making public statements for several seasons about the health status of several key players; how many of them have been 100 per cent accurate? Or even 75 per cent, etc, etc ...???

 

[stevierayswan]

The best way for a football club to boost business is to win football games.

Signing Franklin may well have been part "business"/part "win football games", but the size and length of the deal is the issue. In the very short term (ie, we win 1-2 flags in the next 3-5 years) some might see the decision as worthwhile, but it quickly becomes something far less than that if we do NOT win those flags because after that 3-5-year period any "window" closes dramatically due to having that money tied up in Franklin ... the club's capacity to chase big-name trades is compromised, and our own higher-rated young players, the ones we should be trying to keep, would be entitled to wonder what the club will choose to do with them in future negotiations (eg, Mumford, White, Everitt, Lamb as casualties of the Franklin deal).

I absolutely fckng HATE that the Franklin deal echoes the club's player business dealings of the bad old days of the very early 90s, where the short-term goal of putting bums on seats in the stands was more important than the longer-term goal of building a winning football club.

Fck "marketing"; a winning football team is what we want above ebverything else, certainly not just luring a few more fair-weather fans because "Buddy Franklin" (insert your choice of ig name player, present or future) is playing.

Unfortunately the deal is done and we are stuck with it, like it or not. So where to from here?

 

[disgruntled goat]

Unfortunately the deal is done and we are stuck with it, like it or not. So where to from here?

My personal opinion, as stated somewhere earlier in all this, is that Franklin be coached to/allowed to play the roaming Goodes role of recent seasons. Goodes is finished, whether he actually gets back on the field this season or not, so make Franklin that big, roaming ruck-rover type and get the rest of the team back to a more normal structure. In that regard, a lot depends on the fitness of Tippett/Reid but (as I've also here recently) we're now looking at possible 6-8 blokes who've busted a gut for each other for anything up to eight years and all of a suddne they've hit the same wall, for whatever psychological reasons. In fact, until we know what's happening with those big forwards, we might seriously have to look at playing Grundy up forward and sorting out something else from the young reserves in defence (reserves watchers may have a better idea).

I think we need to look at on-field leadership (am excusing Jack, I suspect there's some kind of problem, but McVeigh seems to be playing like a cranky, selfish old man at the moment). ROK looks gone (I don't want to call it but it looks that way) and with Richards playing poorly and not being there to cover Grundy's lapses, the defence is in strife. That, in turn, affects the way Malceski and Shaw play; we can't afford for them to be loose an unaccountable in defence. Rampe could be the next version of that type of player but to allow that, he can't be expected to play the role Johnston played in 2012. AJ's injury is hurting us more and more every week.

LRT, as much as I love him, also now seems to have hit that wall, although he was out such a long time with injury he may still be getting back to form (that's giving him the benefit of the doubt) but I might also have to face the fact my favourite Swan's time is almost up. He's been laying his body on the line in several positions for almost 10 years.

Our other big worry now is ruck, and this is where I'm most annopyed by the Franklin deal ... we lost Mumford. I know, after this weekend, Mumford's health is again an issue, but we're barely hanging in there now with Pyke and our unheralded young ruck stocks; what happens if Pyke goes down?

Maybe we drop Shaw, send McVeigh back to where he played his best football last year, off halfback (it's hard to tell where he's been playing this year), and try to re-establish our younger midfield around Kennedy. The worry there is the form of Hannebery and Mitchell, particularly their efficiency.

It bothers me that McGlynn has been about our most consistent midfielder and at the start of the season I wasn't sure he was even in our best 22.

I don't have definite answers, I just know that what I've seen in these first four weeks goes far beyond a few bad wet weather games and adjusting to a new gameplan.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Yep. It would be pretty dumb spending 800k on a defender.

Once we get Frawley we should sit him in the forward pocket. I reckon we're just 1 more million dollar forward away from fixing all our problems.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I can't begin to describe how badly it will end for us to have 3 players taking up almost 3million of our cap.

 

[theta]

The best way for a football club to boost business is to win football games.

Signing Franklin may well have been part "business"/part "win football games", but the size and length of the deal is the issue. In the very short term (ie, we win 1-2 flags in the next 3-5 years) some might see the decision as worthwhile, but it quickly becomes something far less than that if we do NOT win those flags because after that 3-5-year period any "window" closes dramatically due to having that money tied up in Franklin ... the club's capacity to chase big-name trades is compromised, and our own higher-rated young players, the ones we should be trying to keep, would be entitled to wonder what the club will choose to do with them in future negotiations (eg, Mumford, White, Everitt, Lamb as casualties of the Franklin deal).

I absolutely fckng HATE that the Franklin deal echoes the club's player business dealings of the bad old days of the very early 90s, where the short-term goal of putting bums on seats in the stands was more important than the longer-term goal of building a winning football club.

Fck "marketing"; a winning football team is what we want above ebverything else, certainly not just luring a few more fair-weather fans because "Buddy Franklin" (insert your choice of ig name player, present or future) is playing.

I hate the deal too mate, it reeks of the dodgy 90s deals, and I would also much prefer wins over bums on seats.

But today's game is massively dictated by the amount of money the teams put into their coaching department, far more than it has ever been before. This extent of the increase in this trend has become very obvious in just the last 5-8 years, depending who you ask. While attendance has always been the life-blood of a club's health, it will be considerably more-so for Sydney given GWS and GC are about to dominate both the league and the growth in memberships for NSW and QLD from 2016-2020. The AFL have set them up to dominate the league for a number of years. If you doubt this have a read of my recent post here.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/john-longmire-the-coaching-staff.1055294/page-8#post-32456254

Looking ahead, the Swans board see this as a MASSIVE THREAT to their success going forward. So what is a relatively safe way of capturing a huge part of the marketshare in the most competitive, fastest growing and largest untapped sporting market in Australia? Get a superstar! As long as Sydney continue to play finals I think the trade will be more-or-less a success, because Buddy's status as the biggest name in the league will create headlines, and almost ANY recurring stories about him that make the Sydney papers is a win for both the Swans and the AFL. If however they actually manage to win another flag, the trade will be well and truly worth it. Capturing market share in NSW and QLD in the coming years is ESSENTIAL to success in the coming decades whether we like it or not.

It sucks I know, but this is the price an AFL team pays for being in a rugby state where the culture does not know the game, and doesnt care either. Yes winning flags would be better, but Sydney now have the oldest team in the league, and any reasonable management would foresee a slide on the ladder for the team at some stage in the coming years. Combine the slide with a GWS and GC dominating both the league and the media, and it spells DISASTER for Sydney. Hopefully we can rebuild without bottoming out, and Buddy is there to help keep the attendance up, ease them though any rebuilding period, and capture a new generation of kids being introduced to the sport.

It has to be a business decision, pure and simple. If it is not, it can only be seen as one of the worst trades in the history of the game. Given how well the Sydney board have managed the team in recent history, and the size of the sponsorship deals, it is hard to believe they got a deal of this size so wrong.

Have faith in the Sydney mangement, they are among the best in the league.

All that said, I dont think Buddy suits the team culture. Im happy to be proven wrong, but if I'm right, unfortunately it will be just something we will have to put up with for the next 6-7 years (he wont make 9).

 

[J_Moore]

Ha ... public statements. He's the coach, what do you think he's going to say??? Our medical staff have been making public statements for several seasons about the health status of several key players; how many of them have been 100 per cent accurate? Or even 75 per cent, etc, etc ...???

I meant the public statements seemed to suggest it was his idea. They weren't generic "we need to keep the club strong going forward" stuff. It was specific "I saw a need" stuff.

Maybe he was against the deal but everything I've seen from him on it is him taking ownership of the move, not wishy-washy stuff ascribing it to "the club" or "the recruiters" or whatever. Maybe he's just that sort of guy, though.

 

[disgruntled goat]

I meant the public statements seemed to suggest it was his idea. They weren't generic "we need to keep the club strong going forward" stuff. It was specific "I saw a need" stuff.

Company line, either way ...

 

[Mister B]

Whether Tippett plays sooner or later, suggestions from Adelaide are that his knee is in worse condition, and has been for a lot longer than the club is letting on.

It's a long bow to draw but is it possible the reason we got Franklin when he was available was to lock in a big forward with the knowledge Tippett's knee will pretty much be shot by the end of his contract? A sort of pre-emptive strike?

 

[disgruntled goat]

It's a long bow to draw but is it possible the reason we got Franklin when he was available was to lock in a big forward with the knowledge Tippett's knee will pretty much be shot by the end of his contract? A sort of pre-emptive strike?

It's a theory, and I don't think anything's out of the question going on what we now know of the past 12 months or so.

 

[RW]

Not sure where the Tippett's knee is shot rumour is coming from... he was close to playing reserves yesterday and he is a chance for next week.

Tippett had been in line to return via the seconds on Sunday but the Swans match committee decided to leave the star recruit out to give him the chance for another full week on the track.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...traight-into-swans-lineup-20140413-zqu5w.html

 

[MarkP]

I reckon this has moved away on a tangent and we are missing the blantantly obvious in front of us.

We have Franklin who is still without question one of the most skillful and deadly high forwards the game has ever seen. Who cares about the cost for a moment.

And we can't use him for s**t.

How the hell is that Franklins problem?

Who would have thought there was a way to devise a game plan that essentially nullifies Franklins influence on a game - when the bloody guy is in your team!!!

Coaches have been trying to work out how to stop him for the best part of a decade. Longmire has done their job for them in 4 games. I am spewing over that. How in the flying f*$* is that possible?

That said on the weekend for him to fluff around and be called to play on with that set shot was as bad a footy act I have seen in a while given the game situation and conditions - he had a stack of warning and made no effort. Unforgivable in a first gamer let alone a veteran.

 

[Punts]

Not sure where the Tippett's knee is shot rumour is coming from... he was close to playing reserves yesterday and he is a chance for next week.



http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...traight-into-swans-lineup-20140413-zqu5w.html

Will not change stuff all , it will still cause long bombs if not more , only change is that he can take a grab 7 out of 10 times but Freo/Ross will be all over this. We have to remember that there are 6 forwards on the ground ( that's why hawks are so good as they use ALL 6 ) and I bet this week if Tippett comes in we will go to him 70% of the time. The issue is far from Tippett sitting in the stands.

 

[stevierayswan]

I reckon this has moved away on a tangent and we are missing the blantantly obvious in front of us.

We have Franklin who is still without question one of the most skillful and deadly high forwards the game has ever seen. Who cares about the cost for a moment.

And we can't use him for s**t.

How the hell is that Franklins problem?

Who would have thought there was a way to devise a game plan that essentially nullifies Franklins influence on a game - when the bloody guy is in your team!!!

Coaches have been trying to work out how to stop him for the best part of a decade. Longmire has done their job for them in 4 games. I am spewing over that. How in the flying f*$* is that possible?

That said on the weekend for him to fluff around and be called to play on with that set shot was as bad a footy act I have seen in a while given the game situation and conditions - he had a stack of warning and made no effort. Unforgivable in a first gamer let alone a veteran.

totally agree. I'm sure if he was still playing with the Hawks or any number of other teams, he'd be having alot more impact than he is at the Swans. As for that act of taking too long on that set shot, a mix of arrogance, frustration, and smart arse. Not acceptable.

 

[Superstar swan]

totally agree. I'm sure if he was still playing with the Hawks or any number of other teams, he'd be having alot more impact than he is at the Swans. As for that act of taking too long on that set shot, a mix of arrogance, frustration, and smart arse. Not acceptable.

To be fair though , wasn't he on his approach before the ump called play on . The rule is as long as your walking in the ump lets you take your kick. I've seen it countless times before where a player has pushed the limits but started walking in and the ump has paid the kick, if they stop the approach and start again I've seen the ump call play on

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Last time we played North was at the SCG and it was wet watch the highlights on how we were such a smarter and more skillful side and in a little over 18 months we look like a shadow of this team.

 

[Xarb]

Well that was a disaster.

So many unforced errors. Dropped marks, shanked kicks, hand-balls and kicks straight to the opposition.

Even one point when the boys got a run on, had about 4 of them within metres of each other, Kennedy lets three roos catch up to him and tackle him. Kennedy. KENNEDY.

There is something seriously wrong. While I won't claim that Longmire is blameless, all the errors above can't just be simplified down to "bad coaching".

 

[Superstar swan]

I hope there is some harsh words thrown around today at the match review. People need to be held accountable and most importantly, someone needs to show some passion.

I bet goodes is just itching to get out there

 

[TheMase]

Not sure where the Tippett's knee is shot rumour is coming from... he was close to playing reserves yesterday and he is a chance for next week.



http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...traight-into-swans-lineup-20140413-zqu5w.html

They are probably gun shy after AJ being released to play.

Forgot to mention that the other night Tom Mitchell said he is likely going to go with with Lars again, but not definite yet.

 

[bedford]

He doesn't know. Still hasn't decided and may go overseases

 

[theta]

Last time we played North was at the SCG and it was wet watch the highlights on how we were such a smarter and more skillful side and in a little over 18 months we look like a shadow of this team.

1. Round 4 2012 was NO WHERE NEAR the torrential downpour we saw on Sunday.

2. The game plan then was to get numbers to the ball and play stoppage footy, like it had been for 10 years, until round 13 last year against Port when it all changed.

3. We had 3 games in decent conditions to find form before this game.

4. 2012 we started the year in blistering form, which is different to virtually every other year (2013 doesnt count, we started against GWS and GC).

These are not excuses, these are facts.

Wait until we play dry games. If we are still crap, then the criticism is due. Give them a chance to find form, because its too hard to find it in the wet.

 

[Superstar swan]

1. Round 4 2012 was NO WHERE NEAR the torrential downpour we saw on Sunday.

2. The game plan then was to get numbers to the ball and play stoppage footy, like it had been for 10 years, until round 13 last year against Port when it all changed.

3. We had 3 games in decent conditions to find form before this game.

4. 2012 we started the year in blistering form, which is different to virtually every other year (2013 doesnt count, we started against GWS and GC).

These are not excuses, these are facts.

Wait until we play dry games. If we are still crap, then the criticism is due. Give them a chance to find form, because its too hard to find it in the wet.

What's the point if it rains in a grand fina