Syria 2014 - The Year Assad "Wins"?

[MaddAdam]

Obama was keen to get in. Led from the front, looked around and saw no one behind him.

He and Cameron both managed to look useless on the issue.

No, Obama was never keen to get in. He was pushed by a variety of forces domestic and stuffed up badly with his red line comment.

Cameron is even more useless on foreign policy than domestic, which is a fair effort.

 

[medusala]

Did ok in Libya (see Obama and Benghazi) before making a mess of Syria. At least making half decent noises re EU. And as opposed to Obama knows the difference between the Maldives and the Falklands and doesn't back a bunch of tin pot socialist wannabe dictators over his country's best ally of the last century.

Not a touch on Gordon Brown. He saved the world and wasn't afraid to tell us.

 

[MaddAdam]

Did ok in Libya (see Obama and Benghazi) before making a mess of Syria. At least making half decent noises re EU. And as opposed to Obama knows the difference between the Maldives and the Falklands and doesn't back a bunch of tin pot socialist wannabe dictators over his country's best ally of the last century.

Not a touch on Gordon Brown. He saved the world and wasn't afraid to tell us.

Tell us what exactly we should be looking at in Benghazi? You have I take it read the magisterial NYT investigation recently released?

Seriously meds, your bullshit sub Guido Telegraph comments lines might work on some folk, but you know I know better.

Cameron managed to lose a Commons vote on it.

He got rolled by Ed freaking Milliband.

 

[blackcat]

He got rolled by Ed freaking Milliband.

i prefer the other brother by the same mother

 

[MaddAdam]

i prefer the other brother by the same mother

No you don't. David Miliband is a scary, scary individual.

I once sat a few seats away from him at an event. He is pure evil. Makes Blair look cute and cuddly.

 

[medusala]

Cameron got rolled by his own party, IIRC 30 voted against it.

Yes read re NYT report. Their Obama love in continues. Up there with Mystic Meg, Andrew Bolt and Polly Toynbee. Plenty of evidence from other sources re the terrorist attack. Just picking up semantics as to say whether it was AQ or another mob loosely affiliated.

In what I am sure is an amazing coincidence Krugman works for the NYT just to frank the form.

The scary brother,

 

[MaddAdam]

Cameron got rolled by his own party, IIRC 30 voted against it.

Yes read re NYT report. Their Obama love in continues. Up there with Mystic Meg, Andrew Bolt and Polly Toynbee. Plenty of evidence from other sources re the terrorist attack. Just picking up semantics as to say whether it was AQ or another mob loosely affiliated.

In what I am sure is an amazing coincidence Krugman works for the NYT just to frank the form.

The scary brother,

Yeah, pity the "other sources" are moron right wing blowhards who have never left their comfy seats.

NYT went and spoke to the people on the ground.

 

[medusala]

Any bloke and their dog can go to a country and speak to someone purporting to represent blah blah. BBC does it all the time and its not hard for someone to tell in the ME which dog in the fight the BBC is backing.

Hasn't the state dept come out and said there were terrorists groups involved? Has there not been quite a bit of evidence to refute it was all about a video being shown?

 

[MaddAdam]

Any bloke and their dog can go to a country and speak to someone purporting to represent blah blah. BBC does it all the time and its not hard for someone to tell in the ME which dog in the fight the BBC is backing.

Hasn't the state dept come out and said there were terrorists groups involved? Has there not been quite a bit of evidence to refute it was all about a video being shown?

So all journalism ever that doesn't fit with your pre-conceived world view is made up?

Have I got it right?

 

[MaddAdam]

Also, if any bloke and their dog can do it, why don't you go to Libya and prove your theory.

In fact, why hasn't anybody?

 

[blackcat]

So all journalism ever that doesn't fit with your pre-conceived world view is made up?

Have I got it right?

come on mads, give meds a break. his take on Lyon's bubble as delusion is a his suppression of disbelief.

and guido fawkes is funny. better than his mini-me rip-off andy slandersyou

order order yeah shut the * up carnts this aint the house of lords

 

[MaddAdam]

come on mads, give meds a break. his take on Lyon's bubble as delusion is a his suppression of disbelief.

and guido fawkes is funny. better than his mini-me rip-off andy slandersyou

order order yeah shut the * up carnts this aint the house of lords

I have had some dealings with Paul "Semen" Staines over the years

I read him sure and I like some of his stuff a great deal. But he's a trustworthy as a shithouse rat.

 

[blackcat]

I have had some dealings with Paul "Semen" Staines over the years

I read him sure and I like some of his stuff a great deal. But he's a trustworthy as a shithouse rat.

andy slandy

 

[Slax]

End is coming faster than thought of US support for the rebels. They've seen the writing on the wall and want a quick exit stratergy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25720548

 

[MaddAdam]

They're on the goey too. FFS.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2014/jan/13/captagon-amphetamine-syria-war-middle-east

 

[samFFC]

http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2014/01/17/Syria-Is-Assad-the-solution.aspx

 

[little graham]

So it appears an Australian soldier was killed in Syria 2 months ago, special forces?

does this finally mean we can no longer deny al queda is a western organization?

 

[MaddAdam]

So it appears an Australian soldier was killed in Syria 2 months ago, special forces?

does this finally mean we can no longer deny al queda is a western organization?

I think that is a tremendous leap.

I saw an excellent story about a Muslim Dutch soldier who is fighting in Syria.

He made the point that he has no animus against the West, loves living in Amsterdam, considers himself Dutch, but is also Muslim and can't stand by and watch what is happening in Syria when he has skills that could help.

Long way to go before we can assume that he's there in some more devious capacity.

(Though there's no doubt that there are Western forces in Syria, assisting the rebels, but they are with the FSA. The real collusion is between ISIS and Assad)

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

i prefer the other brother by the same mother

No you don't. David Miliband is a scary, scary individual.

I once sat a few seats away from him at an event. He is pure evil. Makes Blair look cute and cuddly.

As 'Evil Brothers in World History' go, how would they stack up against the Duplicitous Duo of John and Allen Dulles? Those two caused untold misery and grief on behalf of the Unites States right round the world. Right pair of capital 'e' Evil f*cks...

 

[MaddAdam]

As 'Evil Brothers in World History' go, how would they stack up against the Duplicitous Duo of John and Allen Dulles? Those two caused untold misery and grief on behalf of the Unites States right round the world. Right pair of capital 'e' Evil f*cks...

Given Ed helped stop military action in Syria, long way to go.

Miliband. D would have been gung for it though.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Given Ed helped stop military action in Syria, long way to go.

Miliband. D would have been gung for it though.

Heh. More the yin/yang dynamic of Tim and Peter Costello (or Craig and Brad Sholl!!) than the Legion of Doom style that the Dulles brothers had cranking?

 

[little graham]

(Though there's no doubt that there are Western forces in Syria, assisting the rebels, but they are with the FSA. The real collusion is between ISIS and Assad)

So what does the ISIS stand for? We know they provide intel and access to Americans and their drones, we also know they have factions loyal to the tribes in the mountains, who are loyal to their neighbors, so they get americans killing them. We also know that americans have been providing ISIS men and afghan's to the war in Kosovo. We know that alot of these guys ended up in libya fighting the gov there and now are in Syria fighting Assad with nato weapons and equipment.

Now ISIS are supporting assad? WTF is going on?

 

[MaddAdam]

So what does the ISIS stand for? We know they provide intel and access to Americans and their drones, we also know they have factions loyal to the tribes in the mountains, who are loyal to their neighbors, so they get americans killing them. We also know that americans have been providing ISIS men and afghan's to the war in Kosovo. We know that alot of these guys ended up in libya fighting the gov there and now are in Syria fighting Assad with nato weapons and equipment.

Now ISIS are supporting assad? WTF is going on?

I don't think ISIS are the "jihadi internationale" that so many claim. I don't actually believe that strongly in the existence of said "jihadi internationale" any more, though it certainly did exist in the 80s and 90s and was deployed in Afghanistan and Bosnia/Kosovo. I certainly don't see cooperation between ISIS and the West now.

The Western "friendly" Islamic groups in Syria were all brought under the Islamic Front y the Saudis a few months ago. And have been denounced as traitors by ISIS ever since - hence much of the internal fighting.

ISIS has a fairly straightfoward and checkable history as the Al Qaeda franchise in Iraq during the war against the Americans. But after the Syrian War they got too big for their boots and in a the first example of what we will see a lot more of now Bin Laden is no longer there as a unifying figure, told Zawahiri to go jam it when he ordered them to accept the authority of Jabhat.

But ISIS was massively strengthened when Assad lets dozens/hundreds of hardcore jihadi fighters out of his jails, who all went and immediately joined ISIS.

Also, while there has been some fighting between the two, ISIS tends to fight rthe other rebels and Assad forces leave them alone. In fact, there's been numerous proven cases when other forces like Jabhat and Liwa al Tawhid have abandoned a base under Assad fire and barrel bombing that gets taken over by ISIS and then is mysteriously left alone.

ISIS also sells oil and fuel to the Assad regime and has entered into agreements not damage infrastructure etc.

It is a devil's bargain but works beautifully for Assad.

 

[little graham]

So to cut a very complicated matter down, from what you've posted , ISIS is fighting al queda in Syria.

 

[MaddAdam]

So to cut a very complicated matter down, from what you've posted , ISIS is fighting al queda in Syria.

Well, Jabhat have the official Al Qaeda franchise but what the whole thing shows is that Zawahiris writ does not flow from the mountains of the Afghan/Pakistan border to the batllefields of northern Syria.

ISIS remain the most popular group with the "mujahiroun" aka foreign fighters. Jabhat may be Qaeda in name, by ISIS are the current face of hard core jihadi action on the ground.

And these events are, paradoxically, moving Jabhat further and further away from the hardcore.