Analysis Talia & Roberts our future back line

[doggies ftw]

Interesting that he would sign a two year contract extension at the end of last year, knowing full well that McCartney would be his coach for the term of said contract.

I'll watch the coming trade period with a little more interest than usual this year then.

I highly highly doubt he wants to leave the club he's loved since he was kid, the same club where he has the fantastic opportunity to be a key in defence for the next 10 years, where he's surrounded by a heap of similar kids the same age, which is pretty well known to be on the improve and pushing well up the ladder very soon.

Like you said he signed a contract only last year, what's changed?

After the end of the trade period when Talia and Macca are both still at the club, can we stop taking Mattdougies bullshit facts that make out he actually has some idea of the inner workings of the club?

 

[Mofra]

1. Talia and Roberts have deficiencies that are not fully apparent to the majority of BF posters. The coaches believe that the best way to develop these is in the VFL together instead of being thrown to the wolves in the AFL.

No 1 finishes it - they are in a development cycle and Talia has specific issues he needs to work on.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

After the end of the trade period when Talia and Macca are both still at the club, can we stop taking Mattdougies bullshit facts that make out he actually has some idea of the inner workings of the club?

No! Because every day needs to begin with a good chuckle.

 

[Bodicifer]

Many experts are saying we need a big key forward and although I agree with this I think the biggest problem in our team is our back line.

just wanted opinions on whether you think these two boys can make the huge step up to filling two defensive key posts in our senior teams.

Why haven't these two played many senior games this year when we are obviously still in a development phase.

why is Austin taking one of their spots?


Looking forward to opinions of those that watch a lot of vfl footy

This is one of my greatest football mysteries. Nothing against Austin but he's not up to it. I'm wondering whether for some reason Macca is buying time with Austin knowing that Roberts and Tallia will come in for the long term??? I can't work it out.

 

[cleveland]

when does talias contract run out?

 

[Igloo]

when does talias contract run out?

Next year.

 

[Mutt]

when does talias contract run out?

Talia signed a two year extension at the end of last season. He is contracted until the end of next season and won't be going anywhere soon unless we want him out (which is highly unlikely.)

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Talia is going nowhere.

Not only is he contracted, but on multiple occasions he's spoken of how happy he is to do his apprenticeship in the VFL with his mates.

If blokes had a problem with playing more VFL than AFL, we'd have a pretty small list.

 

[Doggies7]

Is the Talia stuff similar to the JJ is gone insider news we received? That is the JJ is gone news we received a few days before he signed on for another few years...

 

[doggies ftw]

Is the Talia stuff similar to the JJ is gone insider news we received? That is the JJ is gone news we received a few days before he signed on for another few years...

Worse, Talia has already signed on at the end of last year, before the rumours even started

 

[Mattdougie]

Don't listen to Mattdougie's BS. He just says random crap and hopes some of it sticks.

Lol actually I have this from a fairly good source, in fact better than that, but time will tell won't it

 

[Mattdougie]

Don't listen to Mattdougie's BS. He just says random crap and hopes some of it sticks.

Lol actually I have this from a fairly good source, in fact better than that, but time will tell won't it

 

[maddog37]

Credibility on the line here MD........

 

[Mattdougie]

Credibility on the line here MD........

I have no credibility here but I'm happy to go with this

He may not leave due to contract but I know he wants to and I believe if club can get a little for him he will go

Adelaide Carlton and StKilda are sniffing around

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I'm very confident in a Roughy, Roberts, Talia set up. A bit of everything to counter any forward line and they all offer enough offensively to fit in together.

Let me give you some hypothetical tall forward setups to have a look at whether what you say is true:
Fremantle: Clarke, Pavlich, Mayne. Talia is the only one that is really suited to Clarke. Roughead probably has to take Pavlich with Roberts on Mayne; or vice versa. I'm not confident in either of those matchups.
Port Adelaide: Schulz, Westhoff, Monfries. Roughead to Schulz. Then we're pretty stuck.
Essendon: Daniher, Carlisle, Ambrose. Roughead probably has to go to Carlisle (!), with Talia and Roberts going either way. None of those match ups are favourable.
Geelong: Hawkins, Blicavs, Kersten. Rough forced onto Hawkins because the other two would destroy him on the lead. Talia to Blicavs, Roberts to Kersten. Better than the others but they still aren't working in our favour.
St Kilda: Riewoldt, Stanley, White. Not even touching this one. All far too mobile.
I'm playing devil's advocate and there are forward lines that we would match up well on - plus, match ups aren't everything. But I don't see it as being a feasible trio. The second there are multiple athletic, ground-level players, or one plus a small, we struggle. In my eyes it is painfully clear we need an athletic CHB, or at the very least an athletic third tall that can play either tall or small. Roughead struggles with a lot of the match ups presented above and I think he's the one that makes way if we are to play Roberts and Talia in future (and of course, provided they develop well). A trio of Roberts, Talia and Lever, for instance, is much more well-rounded than Roberts, Talia and Roughead, imo.

 

[wingman09]

heard from someone that one of them likes the froffies too much

 

[True Dog]

Let me give you some hypothetical tall forward setups to have a look at whether what you say is true:
Fremantle: Clarke, Pavlich, Mayne. Talia is the only one that is really suited to Clarke. Roughead probably has to take Pavlich with Roberts on Mayne; or vice versa. I'm not confident in either of those matchups.
Port Adelaide: Schulz, Westhoff, Monfries. Roughead to Schulz. Then we're pretty stuck.
Essendon: Daniher, Carlisle, Ambrose. Roughead probably has to go to Carlisle (!), with Talia and Roberts going either way. None of those match ups are favourable.
Geelong: Hawkins, Blicavs, Kersten. Rough forced onto Hawkins because the other two would destroy him on the lead. Talia to Blicavs, Roberts to Kersten. Better than the others but they still aren't working in our favour.
St Kilda: Riewoldt, Stanley, White. Not even touching this one. All far too mobile.
I'm playing devil's advocate and there are forward lines that we would match up well on - plus, match ups aren't everything. But I don't see it as being a feasible trio. The second there are multiple athletic, ground-level players, or one plus a small, we struggle. In my eyes it is painfully clear we need an athletic CHB, or at the very least an athletic third tall that can play either tall or small. Roughead struggles with a lot of the match ups presented above and I think he's the one that makes way if we are to play Roberts and Talia in future (and of course, provided they develop well). A trio of Roberts, Talia and Lever, for instance, is much more well-rounded than Roberts, Talia and Roughead, imo.

Think you might be under estimating Talias athleticism just a little Dannnnnnnnnn... but I hear what you're saying?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Think you might be under estimating Talias athleticism just a little Dannnnnnnnnn... but I hear what you're saying?

No, it's not Talia's athleticism I don't rate. He's fine. But for mine, he's really the only one of the three that can play small, so whenever there's a small in the lineup he simply has to go to them. If there's another athletic bloke in there (look at Port for instance: Monfries and Westhoff), the match ups are hard to find. Totally cool with Talia matching up on the athletic forwards, I just don't see Roughead and Roberts as an effective CHB/FB combo.

 

[maddog37]

I have no credibility here but I'm happy to go with this

He may not leave due to contract but I know he wants to and I believe if club can get a little for him he will go

Adelaide Carlton and StKilda are sniffing around

Fair enough. It will be interesting to see how things pan out.

 

[doggies ftw]

Let me give you some hypothetical tall forward setups to have a look at whether what you say is true:
Fremantle: Clarke, Pavlich, Mayne. Talia is the only one that is really suited to Clarke. Roughead probably has to take Pavlich with Roberts on Mayne; or vice versa. I'm not confident in either of those matchups.
Port Adelaide: Schulz, Westhoff, Monfries. Roughead to Schulz. Then we're pretty stuck.
Essendon: Daniher, Carlisle, Ambrose. Roughead probably has to go to Carlisle (!), with Talia and Roberts going either way. None of those match ups are favourable.
Geelong: Hawkins, Blicavs, Kersten. Rough forced onto Hawkins because the other two would destroy him on the lead. Talia to Blicavs, Roberts to Kersten. Better than the others but they still aren't working in our favour.
St Kilda: Riewoldt, Stanley, White. Not even touching this one. All far too mobile.
I'm playing devil's advocate and there are forward lines that we would match up well on - plus, match ups aren't everything. But I don't see it as being a feasible trio. The second there are multiple athletic, ground-level players, or one plus a small, we struggle. In my eyes it is painfully clear we need an athletic CHB, or at the very least an athletic third tall that can play either tall or small. Roughead struggles with a lot of the match ups presented above and I think he's the one that makes way if we are to play Roberts and Talia in future (and of course, provided they develop well). A trio of Roberts, Talia and Lever, for instance, is much more well-rounded than Roberts, Talia and Roughead, imo.

Freo: Roughy/Clarke, Pav/Roberts, Talia/Mayne, or move them around a bit and send our 4th tall (I.e Zaine Cordy type) to Mayne and send Roughy forward. Tough one.
Port Adelaide: Roughy or Roberts on Shulz, send the other one forward, Talia to Westhoff, Wood to Monfries. Reckon we match up perfectly here.
Essendon: Roughy and Roberts to Daniher and Carlisle, could probably go either way, and Talia to Ambrose. Rough and Roberts are going to have a hard day but we match up pretty well, not many teams would be able to carry two 200cm athletic defenders to match up on them perfectly. And I'd say we match up better like this than with your trio of Roberts, Talia, Lever (which I also really like)
Geelong: Roughy/Roberts to Hawkins, Talia to Blicavs, 4th tall to Kersten, send Roughy or Roberts forward. Bit undecided but don't think its too bad.
St Kilda: Tough but probably Roberts to Riewoldt, Rough to Stanley, Talia to White. Very tough but again you'd be struggling to find 3 defenders on one list with enough athleticism to take all 3. Our set up while not ideal would be able to at least get the job done I'd say.

I don't think any of those are that bad tbh, sure some they have the upper hand some we probably do but were never going to have perfect match ups for everyone and will just have to make do with that. All 3 don't have to (and probably wouldn't be available to) play every game for the year either. I feel its quite similar (although each with their own unique traits of course) to probably one of our best defensive set ups, Lake/Rough, Williams/Roberts, Moz/Talia, Shaggy/Wood/Z. Cordy, Gilbee/Darley, JJ/Harbrow. Then of course we value versatility so highly and if someone is really getting on top of us or we just have no match up whatsoever, Bonts or Stringer could do a job down there, and were targeting forwards like Jaksch/Reid who could also go back when needed.

I just feel like that set up, providing they all develop as expected of course, would be able to deal with most forward set ups you will see these days. And absolutely offer enough variety in their games between them (intercept marking, Roughs golden fist, Talia's ability to completely shut down a player and win 30 touches himself, Roberts composure and skill, the ability to throw one or two of them forward or through the ruck, etc) to play in the same backline. Providing you get the right smaller types around them. Z Cordy sounds like the perfect 4th tall to alongside them too, maybe Tom Young.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Freo: Roughy/Clarke, Pav/Roberts, Talia/Mayne, or move them around a bit and send our 4th tall (I.e Zaine Cordy type) to Mayne and send Roughy forward. Tough one.
Port Adelaide: Roughy or Roberts on Shulz, send the other one forward, Talia to Westhoff, Wood to Monfries. Reckon we match up perfectly here.
Essendon: Roughy and Roberts to Daniher and Carlisle, could probably go either way, and Talia to Ambrose. Rough and Roberts are going to have a hard day but we match up pretty well, not many teams would be able to carry two 200cm athletic defenders to match up on them perfectly. And I'd say we match up better like this than with your trio of Roberts, Talia, Lever (which I also really like)
Geelong: Roughy/Roberts to Hawkins, Talia to Blicavs, 4th tall to Kersten, send Roughy or Roberts forward. Bit undecided but don't think its too bad.
St Kilda: Tough but probably Roberts to Riewoldt, Rough to Stanley, Talia to White. Very tough but again you'd be struggling to find 3 defenders on one list with enough athleticism to take all 3. Our set up while not ideal would be able to at least get the job done I'd say.

I don't think any of those are that bad tbh, sure some they have the upper hand some we probably do but were never going to have perfect match ups for everyone and will just have to make do with that. All 3 don't have to (and probably wouldn't be available to) play every game for the year either. I feel its quite similar (although each with their own unique traits of course) to probably one of our best defensive set ups, Lake/Rough, Williams/Roberts, Moz/Talia, Shaggy/Wood/Z. Cordy, Gilbee/Darley, JJ/Harbrow. Then of course we value versatility so highly and if someone is really getting on top of us or we just have no match up whatsoever, Bonts or Stringer could do a job down there, and were targeting forwards like Jaksch/Reid who could also go back when needed.

I just feel like that set up, providing they all develop as expected of course, would be able to deal with most forward set ups you will see these days. And absolutely offer enough variety in their games between them (intercept marking, Roughs golden fist, Talia's ability to completely shut down a player and win 30 touches himself, Roberts composure and skill, the ability to throw one or two of them forward or through the ruck, etc) to play in the same backline. Providing you get the right smaller types around them.

Thanks, fair enough. I think the major point we disagree on is Roberts' athleticism. He's no slouch but everything I've seen from him indicates that he takes the bigger boys other than the extreme runners/ground-ball players. I haven't seen enough from him that indicates that he's capable of playing on the likes of Pavlich, Daniher or Riewoldt, but time will tell I suppose. I hope it does work but I just think it's lacking athleticism.

 

[doggies ftw]

Thanks, fair enough. I think the major point we disagree on is Roberts' athleticism. He's no slouch but everything I've seen from him indicates that he takes the bigger boys other than the extreme runners/ground-ball players. I haven't seen enough from him that indicates that he's capable of playing on the likes of Pavlich, Daniher or Riewoldt, but time will tell I suppose. I hope it does work but I just think it's lacking athleticism.

Yeah its probably not his ideal match up, and I can see why you like him on the bigger types but I can honestly see him doing a bit of both. I don't think he's overly fast but when watching him I never see him get burned and he's always tight on his man so he must have some okay closing speed, and makes up for it anyway just because he's so smart and he's got a nice leap to match them in the air. How do you reckon his tank is, I haven't noticed it to be a strength or a weakness yet so that would be a question mark on whether he can go with the CHFs.

I agree that it might be lacking a little bit of athleticism overall but I just added to my post before you quoted, that with this setup I'd like a Z. Cordy type along side them. Of course that might not be Z Cordy as theres a good chance he doesn't make it, hell theres a good chance he doesn't even get on our list at this stage but I just mean a player like him. 190 odd cm, athletic, capable at locking down a tall or small when needed but also provides good rebound, so yeah he sounds pretty perfect to add, handy that he's a F/S.

A player like that would just add so much more freedom to the set up.

 

[immortalmike]

No, it's not Talia's athleticism I don't rate. He's fine. But for mine, he's really the only one of the three that can play small, so whenever there's a small in the lineup he simply has to go to them. If there's another athletic bloke in there (look at Port for instance: Monfries and Westhoff), the match ups are hard to find. Totally cool with Talia matching up on the athletic forwards, I just don't see Roughead and Roberts as an effective CHB/FB combo.

Isn't that what Easton Wood is for? I.e., playing on athletic smalls.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Isn't that what Easton Wood is for? I.e., playing on athletic smalls.

Fair point - I just like seeing key defensive trios that are versatile and can swing around onto different opponents at different times to suit what the team needs. If you look at some of the best - Mackenzie/Brown/McGovern; Hurley/Hooker/Fletcher; Gibson/Lake/Stratton/Spangher; Lonergan/Rivers/Mackie; Dawson/McPharlin/Johnson; Richards/Grundy/Rohan; etc., they pretty much all move onto various types of players with no issue. When there's no obvious tall matchup they play smaller, or move around to find better match ups. I just don't see the capability for the RRT trio to do this to any sort of effective extent. We can move one forward, which is nice - but I'd rather not be forced into reasonably significant structural changes every time we don't match up well down back.

 

[Mattdougie]

U also said chris maple is a dud coach

I don't remember saying that(I may have) BUT i do remember saying he wasn't going very well(wasn't the only one) and that Macca should be moved to that role

Which I still believe wholeheartedly


BUT I DO REMEMBER saying that Higgins was no good and needed to be traded mid thru last year and funny how people don't bring that up isn't it! ??

Hmmmm I wonder why