Analysis Talia & Roberts our future back line

[fronkalicious]

I think we have been so bewildered by MC decisions that we are looking too hard for some hidden reasons and giving MC too much credit for being astute. In doing so we become credulous fools.

I can certainly accept that Roberts and Talia are still in Macca's long term thinking (presumably as defenders) but I would be very surprised if the secret plan is to unveil Roughy as a KPF monster in 2015. To play him at FB all year so he can learn how to be a FF just seems to be playing an unbelievably "long game" as a development coach. So unbelievable that I don't believe it.

NB: I'm not saying Roughy won't at some time play FF. He might even end up a permanent FF. But I don't for a minute believe that has been the agenda since the start of this season or even from half way through it.

Gerard Healy believes it fwiw.

 

[fronkalicious]

A forward line with this type of balance isn't too bad:

1 marking key forward (Reid/jaksch/jones)
1 Resting ruck (roughie)
2 mobile, goal-kicking mediums (crameri and stringer/bonti)
2 smalls (dal, hunter, hrovat,
Honey).

Would only take the inclusion of one more tall, to turn us from a very small team, into a big team. Guys like stringer, crameri and bonti suddenly become 3rd and 4th talls and monstrous mids, rather than seriously undersized second key forwards.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

I think we have been so bewildered by MC decisions that we are looking too hard for some hidden reasons and giving MC too much credit for being astute. In doing so we become credulous fools.

I can certainly accept that Roberts and Talia are still in Macca's long term thinking (presumably as defenders) but I would be very surprised if the secret plan is to unveil Roughy as a KPF monster in 2015. To play him at FB all year so he can learn how to be a FF just seems to be playing an unbelievably "long game" as a development coach. So unbelievable that I don't believe it.

NB: I'm not saying Roughy won't at some time play FF. He might even end up a permanent FF. But I don't for a minute believe that has been the agenda since the start of this season or even from half way through it.

I would agree, hence why i think they may be half right. The roughie to FF is a little on the dubious side for me. I would personally be of the opinion that roughie is perm FB, but will find life far easier with a solid Talia and Roberts at his flanks, rather then austin and darley. ANd i can see why taking talia and roberts away to learn... think 'training wheels' would be the best analogy i have off the top of my noggin. Let the child learn to balance on the bike and enjoy the ride before you take them off and have him experience a face full of gravel.

 

[dogwatch]

Gerard Healy believes it fwiw.

Well I don't know how well-informed Healy is, but he would have to be better connected than me, so it could be true.

If it turns out that way (and especially if it works!) McCartney may actually be the genius that some people say he is. And that would really grind some people's gears - both here in Australia and also on a certain yacht floating in the Aegean Sea, not far from Athens.

However I remain very sceptical.

 

[Mutt]

Well I don't know how well-informed Healy is, but he would have to be better connected than me, so it could be true.

If it turns out that way (and especially if it works!) McCartney may actually be the genius that some people say he is. And that would really grind some people's gears - both here in Australia and also on a certain yacht floating in the Aegean Sea, not far from Athens.

However I remain very sceptical.

Roughy to full-back might have been the original plan, which over time has been modified as Roughy's shortcomings as a key defender became apparent. Talia and Roberts in the VFL I believe was driven by their need for development (and discipline in the case of Talia.)

 

[immortalmike]

I think our reliance on Morris in defence is similar to North's reliance on Harvey. I know this won't be popular, but our defence has not been good enough for over a decade now, even when we were at our peak. We concede too easily. This starts from the middle too, so we need people that will work hard both ways.

I can't agree with that. I think in 2008-2010 we had close to the best defence in the league, Gilbee, Morris, Hargrave, Harbrow, Murphy, Lake and Williams were all either All-Australians or damn close, and the attacking (slightly unaccountable) style we played put them under severe pressure week in and week out.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

I can't agree with that. I think in 2008-2010 we had close to the best defence in the league, Gilbee, Morris, Hargrave, Harbrow, Murphy, Lake and Williams were all either All-Australians or damn close, and the attacking (slightly unaccountable) style we played put them under severe pressure week in and week out.

Understatement a touch lol, it was dead set balls in the wind all or nothing a lot of the time. But it scared the s**t out of opposition sides.

I miss those days...

 

[Dav1d]

You got to be kidding me, Talia is a big unit, he physically wont get any bigger than he currently is. Thats is not the reason.
From the games I've seen my views are as follows:
Talia is good one on one, yet some games he labours doing his job without starring. Roberts moves in a laconic way yet hes is classy, nice mark nice kick and out of the two very dissapointed he didn't play more this year.

Maybe that was a poor choice of words, my apologies

 

[TedDougChris]

I can't agree with that. I think in 2008-2010 we had close to the best defence in the league, Gilbee, Morris, Hargrave, Harbrow, Murphy, Lake and Williams were all either All-Australians or damn close, and the attacking (slightly unaccountable) style we played put them under severe pressure week in and week out.

Sorry, have to disagree here. Individually talented I agree, defensively accountable - not in the slightest.

2008 - Points Against

Geelong - 1651
Hawks - 1846
Dogs - 2112
Saints - 1923
Adelaide - 1838

In fact, we had the second worst defensive record in the Top 8.

2009 - Points Against

Saints - 1411
Geelong - 1815
Dogs - 1940
Pies - 1778
Adelaide - 1789

This year, we had the third worst defensive record in the Top 8.

2010 - Points Against

Pies - 1658
Geelong - 1702
Saints - 1591
Dogs - 1734
Swans - 1863

This was our best year defensively, 4th in the League.

Typically we won in this era because we had a good spread of goal kickers and could score easily, not because we restricted the opposition. We needed an entire team oriented defence, which we never adopted under Eade. Perhaps we didn't have the cattle or the time available, but we lost as we didn't have the outlet kick/bailout when the pressure was high and we didn't take our chances when it counted in the big finals...

 

[Lucky Star]

And that would really grind some people's gears - both here in Australia and also on a certain yacht floating in the Aegean Sea, not far from Athens.

I lol'd.

 

[Mofra]

I can't agree with that. I think in 2008-2010 we had close to the best defence in the league, Gilbee, Morris, Hargrave, Harbrow, Murphy, Lake and Williams were all either All-Australians or damn close, and the attacking (slightly unaccountable) style we played put them under severe pressure week in and week out.

When Williams had been playing with some consistency, I'd say yes - but sadly we saw far too little of it.
If Williams had not been injured I could agree with you.

 

[ManOfClay]

After that goal on the weekend I want Roberts at CHF.

But then again I've seen no VFL games in full this year and have no idea what the club's plan for him is

 

[Sharkey66]

I think we have been so bewildered by MC decisions that we are looking too hard for some hidden reasons and giving MC too much credit for being astute. In doing so we become credulous fools.

I can certainly accept that Roberts and Talia are still in Macca's long term thinking (presumably as defenders) but I would be very surprised if the secret plan is to unveil Roughy as a KPF monster in 2015. To play him at FB all year so he can learn how to be a FF just seems to be playing an unbelievably "long game" as a development coach. So unbelievable that I don't believe it.

NB: I'm not saying Roughy won't at some time play FF. He might even end up a permanent FF. But I don't for a minute believe that has been the agenda since the start of this season or even from half way through it.

I believe a lot of how this turns out is very dependent on who and what sort of player(s) we manage to snare in the off season. I reckon Macca generally has a plan B and C, like chasing Doherty last year, but taking Darley when that trade didn't eventuate.
The club will certainly have several pokers in the fire waiting to see what eventuates, be it a Frawley, Reid, Cameron, or whoever, or to just take a kid out of the draft, and the final setup could well hinge upon Who comes to the club in the off season, And indeed, who leaves.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Sorry, have to disagree here. Individually talented I agree, defensively accountable - not in the slightest.

2008 - Points Against

Geelong - 1651
Hawks - 1846
Dogs - 2112
Saints - 1923
Adelaide - 1838

In fact, we had the second worst defensive record in the Top 8.

2009 - Points Against

Saints - 1411
Geelong - 1815
Dogs - 1940
Pies - 1778
Adelaide - 1789

This year, we had the third worst defensive record in the Top 8.

2010 - Points Against

Pies - 1658
Geelong - 1702
Saints - 1591
Dogs - 1734
Swans - 1863

This was our best year defensively, 4th in the League.

Typically we won in this era because we had a good spread of goal kickers and could score easily, not because we restricted the opposition. We needed an entire team oriented defence, which we never adopted under Eade. Perhaps we didn't have the cattle or the time available, but we lost as we didn't have the outlet kick/bailout when the pressure was high and we didn't take our chances when it counted in the big finals...

It was our general game style that was attacking and high scoring. Those players were encouraged to start attacks from the flanks and run off their men. In general, the raw ability of the back 6 in that time was among the best in the league at that time.

 

[Some Idiot]

Honestly I though Talia would be best 22 after the signs he showed last year. Was one of the disappointments that he struggled to get a game.
Reasonably happy with Roberts development and think he has a future as a backman who can go forward and have an impact occasionally.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

After seeing Roberts perform admirably on Hoskin-Elliot at times on the weekend I bow my head to those talking up his athleticism - definitely better than I've previously given him credit for.

He's such a bizarre player though. Good defender but it's not because he's a brilliant spoiler or has great closing speed...he just has an uncanny knack of getting his player out of position. He stops them from drawing the ball. Part of it was Boyd's inexperience, obviously, but Roberts really gave him a bath the other night. You just don't see his opponent. It's like he tags them out of the game.