Oppo Camp Taylor Adams (Traded to Swans 2023)

[MarkT2]

Not sure I agree with Keeffe but the fact that we have a number of poor kicks is exactly why players with poor skills have to be under significant pressure. We need some culling in reverse order of what else they bring to the side. Adams strong point is his stoopage winning ability and age. Goldsack has versatility. Keeffe has height but isn;t great 1 on 1. Toovey is about the only running defensive option that can actually beat a quality opponent and shut him out. Williams might be the next cab off that rank. Macaffer is our only stopper. There are others as well.

Something has to give or we accept we won premierships. it isn't possible owht the collective poor skills we curently have.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Not sure I agree with Keeffe but the fact that we have a number of poor kicks is exactly why players with poor skills have to be under significant pressure. We need some culling in reverse order of what else they bring to the side. Adams strong point is his stoopage winning ability and age. Goldsack has versatility. Keeffe has height but isn;t great 1 on 1. Toovey is about the only running defensive option that can actually beat a quality opponent and shut him out. Williams might be the next cab off that rank. Macaffer is our only stopper. There are others as well.

Something has to give or we accept we won premierships. it isn't possible owht the collective poor skills we curently have.

Transitition. Add Freeman Scharenburg Broomhead Grundy Kennedy Fasolo and some senior players to the regular lineup like Brown Toovey Reid and Swan and even maybe Sinclair and its a different lineup significantly. Agree something has to give and thats why we havce been in mini rebuild mode in recent years.

 

[MarkT2]

There is no doubt we have upside from the last 2 drafts. I am not arguing we are rubbish and have no future. All I am saying is we need to cull poor kicks. Hopefully we have some ready made replacements but we can't repeat the mid '00s mistakes. If players can't kick they better have significant other weapons like Swan or Cloke. As for Sinclair, he's definitive of the list problem. I like how he tries and his run is good. He is a poor kick and I'd be trading him for what we can get for him. We cannot add that disposal to the current side.

 

[TradeDraft]

There is no doubt we have upside from the last 2 drafts. I am not arguing we are rubbish and have no future. All I am saying is we need to cull poor kicks. Hopefully we have some ready made replacements but we can't repeat the mid '00s mistakes. If players can't kick they better have significant other weapons like Swan or Cloke. As for Sinclair, he's definitive of the list problem. I like how he tries and his run is good. He is a poor kick and I'd be trading him for what we can get for him. We cannot add that disposal to the current side.

Well Adams is very hard at the Ball, Get’s Contested Ball, Vision by Hand is very good and Great Tackler.

Well we could trade at least half the squad because of poor kick.

So you think Hine made a Mistake on Chasing Adams?

 

[orion21]

looks like he out for 6 weeks with finger injury

 

[Anderson Brown]

Oh goody. Now his season may be over.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/2014-08-04/injury-update-adams-to-miss-46

 

[mattys123]

 

[Reykjavik]

This season can seriously get ****ed and ******* die.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Using this example in your forlorn effort to justify your poor opinion of him, is just plain embarrassing.

You have been soundly over ruled with the tide of support the kid has recieved today, after a fantastic game.

It time to eat fumble pie and admit you may be wrong as many more rational posters have begun to do.

Fumble pie? Oh so that's where our poor skills are coming from..

 

[Copeland]

Ca

Yes. And those people are dildos of the very highest order that annoy me, hence my post.

Can I order one my missus loves them

 

[Collingwood pro]

.
WHY DO SO MANY THINGS COLLINGWOOD NEED GET INJURED.
WHY ILLUMINATI WHY?!??!!?!?!?!??!?!

In all seriousness this sucks so much.

 

[MarkT2]

So you think Hine made a Mistake on Chasing Adams?

More like we backed ourselves in a corner with Shaw and got slammed in the trade by Gubby again. Adams is ok but Shaw is worth a lot more let alone paying some of Shaw's salary. That's another issue though. Adams has deficiencies which happen to be similar to too many on our list. It's a pity he's injured now. I would prefer he played as much as possible.

 

[TradeDraft]

More like we backed ourselves in a corner with Shaw and got slammed in the trade by Gubby again. Adams is ok but Shaw is worth a lot more let alone paying some of Shaw's salary. That's another issue though. Adams has deficiencies which happen to be similar to too many on our list. It's a pity he's injured now. I would prefer he played as much as possible.

Well we all do.

Everyone who was chasing Adams loved him. They knew that his Kicking needed improving but it was more then his OnField work.

Was captain of Geelong Falcons and is said to be a Total Professional. Things that Bucks would Love and also helped that Bucks coached Adams at U-16 and he must of liked what he saw

 

[TradeDraft]

Him Being Traded for Heater has put more Pressure then there Probably Should be

 

[Seedsfan]

4-6 for a finger injury * me

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Oh well at least we have seen enough of him to know we have a player on our hands. He'll be back. Good news is that Luke Ball is an excellent substitute and played well in the VFL last week. We also have Josh Thomas to consider along with a few others.


As for the trade, it was fair and reasonable. A first round draft pick 20 year old second year player with 38 games already in the bank is worth a first round pick every day of the week. Heath Shaw at age 27 is also worth a first round pick. Both have their faults, Adams cant kick and Shaw cant be controlled. It was a very fair trade.

Selling the known to buy the unkown is always fraught with risk. We sold Tarrant for Reid and that worked out ok. In Hine we trust.

 

[MyManLynch]

4-6 for a finger injury **** me

It's a detached tendon that requires immediate surgery. He would have lost 100% movement of that finger. He will be lucky to play again this year.
His hand & forearm will be in a brace to prevent any movement of the tendon for the next 2 weeks (after surgery).
Then soft rehab for weeks 3 & 4, followed by intense rehab weeks 5 & 6 to get back to normal movement again (fully extend finger & regain grip strength). No surgery, is not an option.
It's a common injury in Rugby (finger caught in jumper during tackle, bent back & the tendon tears clean from the finger tip & may recoil into the palm of the hand, requiring invasive surgery to locate & reattach).
It's quite unpleasant.

 

[TradeDraft]

It's a detached tendon that requires immediate surgery. He would have lost 100% movement of that finger. He will be lucky to play again this year.
His hand & forearm will be in a brace to prevent any movement of the tendon for the next 2 weeks (after surgery).
Then soft rehab for weeks 3 & 4, followed by intense rehab weeks 5 & 6 to get back to normal movement again (fully extend finger & regain grip strength). No surgery, is not an option.
It's a common injury in Rugby (finger caught in jumper during tackle, bent back & the tendon tears clean from the finger tip & may recoil into the palm of the hand, requiring invasive surgery to locate & reattach).
It's quite unpleasant.

But should he make a 100% Recovery?

 

[MyManLynch]

But should he make a 100% Recovery?

Yes he will have normal use of the finger again. Will not affect him in any way in the future.

 

[TradeDraft]

Yes he will have normal use of the finger again. Will not affect him in any way in the future.

That is great to hear

 

[Old Spice]

Ball filled a void but his kicking was always an issue. It's now fatal IMO becasue he has fallen away a bit elsewhere. I'd have him retire at the end of the year. Thomas was a good kick. Johnson has flaws and as a result was never as damaging as he could have otherwise been. Swan's kicking lets him down but he's an out and out champion otherwise. Toovey is decent player but he was a fringe player in our premiership side.

The real issue though is that we are now a poor kicking side so everyone that can't kick well is a bigger liability than when we actually had a contending side. Some of them have to go or we never win a flag. If we accept Swan becuase of his other qualities, Toovey because we need his defensive abilities and run, Cloke becasue he is a gun marking player and our only actual quality forward then we are starting to fill our poor kick quota and make no mistake ther has to be one if you want to win flags. Players like Adams and O'Brien have to come under pressure. I'm not saying he is no good, just that his kicking limitations mean is no not awesome or great as some seem to proclaim.

Come on Mark. You've stated recently that Ball was valuable, even irreplaceable for his in and under role. Sure, Adams is not a brilliant kick at present and we wish every player was, but you're shifting the goalposts a little here. Adam's exhibits plenty of those attributes.

We'd love Adams to be all things to all men but players who can win the ball on the inside, outside, mark, pressure and kick well are as rare as rocking horse shite, which is why they go top 5 and there are not even that many in reality.

That's like asking a tall defender to be able to play on smalls, gorillas, athletic types, have pace and kick with precision. I think you need to be realistic and find the team balance across the list, not expect everyone to be masters of everything, as much as we might wish for it in a drafted competition.

 

[doodles98]

Ball filled a void but his kicking was always an issue. It's now fatal IMO becasue he has fallen away a bit elsewhere. I'd have him retire at the end of the year. Thomas was a good kick. Johnson has flaws and as a result was never as damaging as he could have otherwise been. Swan's kicking lets him down but he's an out and out champion otherwise. Toovey is decent player but he was a fringe player in our premiership side.

The real issue though is that we are now a poor kicking side so everyone that can't kick well is a bigger liability than when we actually had a contending side. Some of them have to go or we never win a flag. If we accept Swan becuase of his other qualities, Toovey because we need his defensive abilities and run, Cloke becasue he is a gun marking player and our only actual quality forward then we are starting to fill our poor kick quota and make no mistake ther has to be one if you want to win flags. Players like Adams and O'Brien have to come under pressure. I'm not saying he is no good, just that his kicking limitations mean is no not awesome or great as some seem to proclaim.

Good post.. hard to argue with what you've said.. inefficient disposal is our biggest problem and it will inevitably put the worst culprits in the team in the gun.

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

The number of Collingwood players in the past 1-2 years who seem to get injured the precise moment they are coming into excellent form and filling a role within the side is getting to the point of ludicrious. I remember Keefe before the knee, Fasolo every time he runs into some form, Maxwell this year and about a dozen others I can't think of right now.

This is just getting crazy???!!!!!

 

[Robroy22]

I'm getting a bit confused why people are comparing Heater and Taylor Adams? They aren't "likes" at all....so why compare?
Heater gave his all for us and I'll always love his passion but he had maybe 2-3 years left and we have Scharenburg, Oxley, Seedsman and Langdon to cover him by position. Getting Adams is to cover the eventual loss of Luke Ball and is terrific planning if you ask me. It gives Taylor a few years to model himself on Bally and to learn in terms of leadership. His game against Port was very "Ballesque" and he should give us another decade or so of good honest grunt.

Hine and his list management crew are doing a fabulous job and long may it continue.

 

[MarkT2]

Come on Mark. You've stated recently that Ball was valuable, even irreplaceable for his in and under role. Sure, Adams is not a brilliant kick at present and we wish every player was, but you're shifting the goalposts a little here. Adam's exhibits plenty of those attributes.

Ball had a specif quality that we needed which tipped us over the premiership edge. He was the man for the time. Now he's too slow, doesn;t get enough of it and can't kick well enough for this list. Time got him like it does everyone but so did our list management to a degree. Adams has a deficincies we have way too much of. Different times reqire different decisions. Apart from that Ball of 2010/11 was an alround better player than Adams is now and by a margin. Adams of course has some time on his side.

We'd love Adams to be all things to all men but players who can win the ball on the inside, outside, mark, pressure and kick well are as rare as rocking horse shite, which is why they go top 5 and there are not even that many in reality.

True enough. So I'd rather use Beams in the Ball role as we did in 2012 and then find a outside option with good skills. Fasolo or Seedsman may be options. Young isn't.

That's like asking a tall defender to be able to play on smalls, gorillas, athletic types, have pace and kick with precision. I think you need to be realistic and find the team balance across the list, not expect everyone to be masters of everything, as much as we might wish for it in a drafted competition.

Look, I get all that. I'm not asking for Lenny Hayes. I am asking for players who have poor footskills to be under extreme pressuse wth a view that a few of them must go because it is impossible to win a flag with this list. Too many short players, too many medium paced plodders and too many poor kicks. We have the balance wrong.