Official Club Stuff Taylor Hunt - Round 1 Debut

[theflea]

On any level you want on the football field Mitch is a better footballer and would be more valuable to us. Off field is another issue.

That is 1 view, but I have another. Each to their own.

 

[theflea]

I know you interpret things differently to me, but I said Gordon is ATM a foot soldier . However he has a good tank , but can he go to another level as nut suggests is a mystery to me
ATM to me he's a good ordinary footballer

If this is the case then you don't agree, which I think was his point.

 

[TigerImposter]

Imo we don't have a good tagger/defender, which is why I want him. If we did, then we wouldn't have the need to get him. I still believe he is better than player 35+ on our list anyway.

Agree flea but we need guys that will replace the guys in the bottom 8 of our main list. Can he achieve this ? If no then pass

 

[TigerImposter]

If this is the case then you don't agree, which I think was his point.

No I'm still on hold with Gordon as he is at the each way bet stage

 

[RunningBounce]

True but Matt Spangher for Pick 66.
And we didn't look at Simpkin or Ceglar who were 2 of 3 emergencies.

I'll start by saying that I like the strategy of rookie listing mature-aged, delisted free agents. Richmond obviously is not Hawthorn, and we need to find our own recruiting strategy. I think recruiting has been going better than it has for 3 decades, but we still haven't won a final in a long time.

Simpkin I'll pay as an example of Hawthorn rookie listing a mature-aged, delisted free agent, but Ceglar was 21 when the Hawks picked him up. I certainly wouldn't call myself mature-aged at 21. Besides, neither were in the premiership 22.

It is interesting to look at what successful clubs do. Hawthorn had 10 out of 22 from their 2014 premiership team that I'd call substantially developed at Hawthorn. Geelong in the recent glory years had a powerful development machine. Sydney, maybe less so, with more success from recycling players.

I think it's time for Richmond to put more emphasis on development, less on hoping for a great year from a recycled player, playing for pride after getting dropped.

But I would take Taylor Hunt.

 

[ReaperX]

I'm bloody confused to why we would want someone who isn't going to do anything for us as we have a high proportion of these guys already on our list
We should be aiming to upgrade at least 8 blokes who failed us in the EF
Yet these guys are still on the list. So the bottom line is will Hunt force any of these guys out bc he's better. Nope so we're not going to improve then. Mark my words.
Our last two years we've failed at the crucial time where DH stated ,"you only get to improve your list once a year"
Last year to this year we failed to improve and we are a big risk of declining further.
We've got it all bloody wrong again IMO
On the bright side I appreciate that you acknowledged the Hampson pun

We're going to the draft to bring in some quality kids, who will be untried, but have the potential to be upgrades on some of our plodders in years to come (and potential not to be as well).

We attempted to lure David Armitage to the club but were not successful in doing so (loyalty still lives for some players), and we would have gained a former No. 2 draft pick in Trengove from the Demons, had he not failed his medical.

Now, in regards to Taylor Hunt... he plays a position that we currently have Shaun Grigg playing the majority of the time. The thing to note here, is that Shaun Grigg is NOT a tagger or defensive lock-down player by nature, but is used in the role currently because we don't really have anybody else that we want to commit to it full time. So, from this positional perspective, Taylor Hunt would be a cheap, useful pickup to fill a small need. We are not trading anything for him, the only thing we're giving up is a list position, and the kid is just turning 24, so he's not old by AFL standards at all, and if things went well, he'd be capable of giving us 6-8 seasons of good service.

Last year we recruited Ben Lennon (18), Nathan Gordon (24), and Sam Lloyd (22) in the National Draft, and people have been pretty happy with these pick-ups so far. This year, we clearly intend to pick up probably 4 kids this time, and from all mail that has been circulating, you'd expect we'd be bringing in mostly 18/19 year old's with our main picks.

My question to you is this:

How does not getting Hunt, and just picking up 5 kids in the draft, put us in a better position than picking up 4 kids in the draft + a 24 year old Taylor Hunt as a DFA to fill a tagger requirement?

Okay, so your real point is that we didn't go out and recruit Dangerfield this year, I get it.

Big whoop mate, the AFL system is made up of about 800 or so players, and of those players, about 10% of them are elite. The rest are either solid contributors, or on the fringe.

Think about it mate, every list has approx 45 players on it.

18 x 45 = 810

Of that, each team has a best 22, which cuts that figure down to about 400 players.

Of those 400 players, how many absolute elite guns do you think there are? I would say there are 60-80 at best.

So, 18 clubs for 80 elite players. On average, you're looking at about 4-5 elite players in every best 22. Some clubs have more obviously (Hawthorn, Sydney), whilst others have far less than that now (Western Bulldogs, St. Kilda, Melbourne)

Our elite bracket has at least 5 players in it, who (aside from Deledio) are all 25 years old or younger and have a good 6-8 years left in the system:

Trent Cotchin
Brett Deledio
Dustin Martin
Alex Rance
Jack Riewoldt

Ivan Maric could also be on that list, but I wouldn't say he's elite, just under that level. He's a very influential player in our team though, and would be the #1 ruck in a number of sides in the competition.

Also, up and coming players under 25 years old:

Anthony Miles (sensational 1st year with us)
Brandon Ellis (nearly AA this year)
Nick Vlastuin (potentially our next captain, very solid player who has potential to become elite in years to come)
Reece Conca (his best footy is VERY good, the consistency is the key for him now)
Ben Griffiths (his ceiling is very high, can take big grabs, and kick it a mile. he was the original McBean in terms of hype, but he's starting to deliver)

And of our relatively untried kids, we've seen some great signs at lower levels from guys like:

Liam McBean (nearly won the VFL goalkicking last year from about 10-12 matches played)
Matt McDonough (has pace and skills to burn, dominates VFL level and has performed well at AFL level too)
Ben Lennon (has shown some signs)

Our list has holes, and we need upgrades on guys like Petterd, Grigg, and a few others, but all in all our list is actually in pretty good shape. We have a very even balance of age groups now, and after the draft we'll have some fresh young kids into our system to continue the cycle of improvement.

Also, what we brought to the EF final against Port was some of our absolute worst football, but if we had that match over again, things wouldn't be as bad as that. It was a shocker of a game, but context is important... Port were unstoppable that day, and would have beaten Hawthorn (which they nearly did playing worse than what they did in the EF), Sydney, Fremantle (which they did, in Perth, after being 30 points down), or any other Top 4 aspirant.

We've had days where we've been unstoppable as well, such as the two Hawthorn matches in 2012 and 2013.

Port have also had days where they've played like we did in that EF, such as getting smashed by Fremantle in Round 22, 2013, and also the second showdown this year. Whilst the margin wasn't huge in that one, they played very poorly. You could even say that their performance against us in Round 17 or 18, they certainly were nowhere NEAR the level that they got to in the finals. Teams go through ups and downs in form, and ultimately, the Tigers had been up for the previous 9 weeks winning clutch matches, and just ran into a side full of run and vigor.

I'm telling you now, the gap between Port Adelaide's best and Richmond's best is barely there, when we play well mate, we can beat almost anybody as well. If we had played at our best, and Port were playing poorly, the result would have been reversed, and we'd have probably smashed them.

Anyway, Port have done amazing things in the last 2 seasons, but do they have a list of 22 a-graders? Nope, not at all. They have about 4-6 elite players, some solid mid-tier players, and a few guys who just play their roles and don't do anything flashy.

The reason they have become so good, so quickly, is because Ken Hinkley and his coaching team have developed a gameplan that suits the list. Not trying to build a list to suit a gameplan.

So anyway, to come full circle here, just because Taylor Hunt is not an A-grade talent, it does not mean he couldn't possibly improve our team. He fills a role that we are struggling to fill, and who knows, it may even release a guy like Grigg from that defensive lock-down role he is playing at the moment, and actually allow him to get back to some of his 2012-2013 form, which if you'll remember was actually pretty damn good!

We do NOT need 22 a-graders, we don't even need more than what we already have... what we truly need to do this off-season is hone and perfect the game-plan, and make it fit like a glove around what we already have. If we do that, our squad has shown that it's good enough to be a Top 4 aspirant (we were half a game off finishing 4th in 2013).

And if we don't, then Hardwick needs to be questioned in terms of his ability to take the next step within his coaching career.

I'm backing the guy in though, because it makes following football more enjoyable when you approach your clubs aspirations in a positive manner. Hopefully this penny will drop for you soon buddy, and you'll just start enjoying footy again...

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Who did we use when we won 9 straight?

The oppositions Tagger.

 

[TigerImposter]

We're going to the draft to bring in some quality kids, who will be untried, but have the potential to be upgrades on some of our plodders in years to come (and potential not to be as well).

We attempted to lure David Armitage to the club but were not successful in doing so (loyalty still lives for some players), and we would have gained a former No. 2 draft pick in Trengove from the Demons, had he not failed his medical.

Now, in regards to Taylor Hunt... he plays a position that we currently have Shaun Grigg playing the majority of the time. The thing to note here, is that Shaun Grigg is NOT a tagger or defensive lock-down player by nature, but is used in the role currently because we don't really have anybody else that we want to commit to it full time. So, from this positional perspective, Taylor Hunt would be a cheap, useful pickup to fill a small need. We are not trading anything for him, the only thing we're giving up is a list position, and the kid is just turning 24, so he's not old by AFL standards at all, and if things went well, he'd be capable of giving us 6-8 seasons of good service.

Last year we recruited Ben Lennon (18), Nathan Gordon (24), and Sam Lloyd (22) in the National Draft, and people have been pretty happy with these pick-ups so far. This year, we clearly intend to pick up probably 4 kids this time, and from all mail that has been circulating, you'd expect we'd be bringing in mostly 18/19 year old's with our main picks.

My question to you is this:

How does not getting Hunt, and just picking up 5 kids in the draft, put us in a better position than picking up 4 kids in the draft + a 24 year old Taylor Hunt as a DFA to fill a tagger requirement?

Okay, so your real point is that we didn't go out and recruit Dangerfield this year, I get it.

Big whoop mate, the AFL system is made up of about 800 or so players, and of those players, about 10% of them are elite. The rest are either solid contributors, or on the fringe.

Think about it mate, every list has approx 45 players on it.

18 x 45 = 810

Of that, each team has a best 22, which cuts that figure down to about 400 players.

Of those 400 players, how many absolute elite guns do you think there are? I would say there are 60-80 at best.

So, 18 clubs for 80 elite players. On average, you're looking at about 4-5 elite players in every best 22. Some clubs have more obviously (Hawthorn, Sydney), whilst others have far less than that now (Western Bulldogs, St. Kilda, Melbourne)

Our elite bracket has at least 5 players in it, who (aside from Deledio) are all 25 years old or younger and have a good 6-8 years left in the system:

Trent Cotchin
Brett Deledio
Dustin Martin
Alex Rance
Jack Riewoldt

Ivan Maric could also be on that list, but I wouldn't say he's elite, just under that level. He's a very influential player in our team though, and would be the #1 ruck in a number of sides in the competition.

Also, up and coming players under 25 years old:

Anthony Miles (sensational 1st year with us)
Brandon Ellis (nearly AA this year)
Nick Vlastuin (potentially our next captain, very solid player who has potential to become elite in years to come)
Reece Conca (his best footy is VERY good, the consistency is the key for him now)
Ben Griffiths (his ceiling is very high, can take big grabs, and kick it a mile. he was the original McBean in terms of hype, but he's starting to deliver)

And of our relatively untried kids, we've seen some great signs at lower levels from guys like:

Liam McBean (nearly won the VFL goalkicking last year from about 10-12 matches played)
Matt McDonough (has pace and skills to burn, dominates VFL level and has performed well at AFL level too)
Ben Lennon (has shown some signs)

Our list has holes, and we need upgrades on guys like Petterd, Grigg, and a few others, but all in all our list is actually in pretty good shape. We have a very even balance of age groups now, and after the draft we'll have some fresh young kids into our system to continue the cycle of improvement.

Also, what we brought to the EF final against Port was some of our absolute worst football, but if we had that match over again, things wouldn't be as bad as that. It was a shocker of a game, but context is important... Port were unstoppable that day, and would have beaten Hawthorn (which they nearly did playing worse than what they did in the EF), Sydney, Fremantle (which they did, in Perth, after being 30 points down), or any other Top 4 aspirant.

We've had days where we've been unstoppable as well, such as the two Hawthorn matches in 2012 and 2013.

Port have also had days where they've played like we did in that EF, such as getting smashed by Fremantle in Round 22, 2013, and also the second showdown this year. Whilst the margin wasn't huge in that one, they played very poorly. You could even say that their performance against us in Round 17 or 18, they certainly were nowhere NEAR the level that they got to in the finals. Teams go through ups and downs in form, and ultimately, the Tigers had been up for the previous 9 weeks winning clutch matches, and just ran into a side full of run and vigor.

I'm telling you now, the gap between Port Adelaide's best and Richmond's best is barely there, when we play well mate, we can beat almost anybody as well. If we had played at our best, and Port were playing poorly, the result would have been reversed, and we'd have probably smashed them.

Anyway, Port have done amazing things in the last 2 seasons, but do they have a list of 22 a-graders? Nope, not at all. They have about 4-6 elite players, some solid mid-tier players, and a few guys who just play their roles and don't do anything flashy.

The reason they have become so good, so quickly, is because Ken Hinkley and his coaching team have developed a gameplan that suits the list. Not trying to build a list to suit a gameplan.

So anyway, to come full circle here, just because Taylor Hunt is not an A-grade talent, it does not mean he couldn't possibly improve our team. He fills a role that we are struggling to fill, and who knows, it may even release a guy like Grigg from that defensive lock-down role he is playing at the moment, and actually allow him to get back to some of his 2012-2013 form, which if you'll remember was actually pretty damn good!

We do NOT need 22 a-graders, we don't even need more than what we already have... what we truly need to do this off-season is hone and perfect the game-plan, and make it fit like a glove around what we already have. If we do that, our squad has shown that it's good enough to be a Top 4 aspirant (we were half a game off finishing 4th in 2013).

And if we don't, then Hardwick needs to be questioned in terms of his ability to take the next step within his coaching career.

I'm backing the guy in though, because it makes following football more enjoyable when you approach your clubs aspirations in a positive manner. Hopefully this penny will drop for you soon buddy, and you'll just start enjoying footy again...

Thank you for your in depth response and I can see some truth in your argument
One point you made is that you think i believe a team needs 22 A graders. This is incorrect . A team requires more B graders than c or D graders
Now our problem is we continue to replace d graders with more d graders so the list just stagnates. A bit like CFC under Ratten where they had the media conned one year and opened up as flag favourites
They failed to improve on their bottom end of their list and just fizzed away to a rebuild today
We are Anthony Miles away from Port
If you look at Ports pick ups they've all been at last c to B graders but not battlers and the odd A grader (Ryder)
In other words they're strategically building a list by improving their bottom 6-8 players
We have not done this
Hampson for Derrikx
Thomas for white
Hunt for Helbig??

Unless we displace the likes of Grigg Newman Petterd Chaplin and a plethora of other players who were exposed in the two EF losses we will end up like the CFC under Ratten and I will never enjoy my footy

 

[tigerish_tiger]

So has anyone got any inside news regarding Hunts interview?

 

[nut]

I agree,but he's first of all got to get a game
The other thing is what is a breakout year? How much Improvement does he have in him? What level can he reach? A b c d etc ?
I love his work rate, but he seems to do nothing for me. I'd love him to play as a ruck rover bc he has the hardness and a good tank,but his decision making is so so
This is where he needs to improve bc he can find it ok

I really like his competitiveness .... he has good size. He just seems fraction off the pace .. I see him as a dangerous HF that can move up the ground and provide multiple options. He just needs to fix his timing in marking ... which I put down to experience and nerves etc.... he almost needs to slow down to speed up if that makes sense. I reckon once he gets his confidence up he will be a handful for the opposition. I loved how the club backed him..... thats development.

 

[Robbo92]

Agree flea but we need guys that will replace the guys in the bottom 8 of our main list. Can he achieve this ? If no then pass

But the answer is yes.

 

[Toadvine]

Is reported to be meeting with West Coast as well.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Summed up in a nutshell...
Dimma building a list to suit a gameplan.. its the long way home...

 

[Michaels]

interview with eagles is tomorrow.

His preference is to stay in Vic though.

Will come down to how good/bad our offer is i reckon.

 

[Tiges1229]

interview with eagles is tomorrow.

His preference is to stay in Vic though.

Will come down to how good/bad our offer is i reckon.

Tigers offer 65k plus free lunches on Mon, Wed , Fri and a free drink card for the Maurice Rioli room after home games

 

[Michaels]

Tigers offer 65k plus free lunches on Mon, Wed , Fri and a free drink card for the Maurice Rioli room after home games

is the drink card for soft drink or for spirits? that can be a deal breaker..

 

[Tiges1229]

is the drink card for soft drink or for spirits? that can be a deal breaker..

lol, soft drink and beer is covered for free, spirits he only gets 5 per Drink card.

 

[UpTheGuts]

So, he's not even close enough to the best 22 to even be kept for depth at a successful club, therefore we should take him?

And Miles was not even kept for depth at the wooden spooners.

 

[Tiger71]

Wrong nut we need to improve our recruiting methods
If it can't be done then the staff in this field need to be reeducated or moved on
Look at the names we've chased this year . Not one of these guys would have improved our list or position in challenging the big three
Isn't the idea to get bigger and better?Far out I could have driven down to the Moreland rd Centrelink and picked up a bunch of blokes with more potential

I have noticed you have been saying that since the off season mate and again it has me stumped. I just want to be clear, so there is no confusion. Are you saying that if we had of managed to get a Fit and injury free trengove or Armitage it would not have made us a better side and help close the gap ?

If your answer is NO then who should we have chased this year that wanted to play for a Melbourne club ?

 

[UpTheGuts]

Gordon is well on the way to being an important player... Break out year next year.

will be delisted at end of 2015 I suspect.

 

[TigerImposter]

I have noticed you have been saying that since the off season mate and again it has me stumped. I just want to be clear, so there is no confusion. Are you saying that if we had of managed to get a Fit and injury free trengove or Armitage it would not have made us a better side and help close the gap ?

If your answer is NO then who should we have chased this year that wanted to play for a Melbourne club ?

If other teams can cut some decent deals why can't we?
The last two years have been staggering
I wouldn't have carried on if we didn't get the war chest big name propaganda followed by the chasing of all the list cloggers. This is the rhetoric I hate followed by when they duck up players holding their third leg crying ," we're hurting ohhhhh my heart bleeds so much .it won't happen again"
GTFO and work your arses off from Benny to the gardener and put the 40 million into a successful venture rather than spin and tears
I'm armed today and fully ready for the mob mentality

 

[wart101]

I have noticed you have been saying that since the off season mate and again it has me stumped. I just want to be clear, so there is no confusion. Are you saying that if we had of managed to get a Fit and injury free trengove or Armitage it would not have made us a better side and help close the gap ?

If your answer is NO then who should we have chased this year that wanted to play for a Melbourne club ?

Who ever you are talking to i have ignored so its like you are having these massive conversations with yourself lmfao.

 

[wart101]

Thank you for your in depth response and I can see some truth in your argument
One point you made is that you think i believe a team needs 22 A graders. This is incorrect . A team requires more B graders than c or D graders
Now our problem is we continue to replace d graders with more d graders so the list just stagnates. A bit like CFC under Ratten where they had the media conned one year and opened up as flag favourites
They failed to improve on their bottom end of their list and just fizzed away to a rebuild today
We are Anthony Miles away from Port
If you look at Ports pick ups they've all been at last c to B graders but not battlers and the odd A grader (Ryder)
In other words they're strategically building a list by improving their bottom 6-8 players
We have not done this
Hampson for Derrikx
Thomas for white
Hunt for Helbig??

Unless we displace the likes of Grigg Newman Petterd Chaplin and a plethora of other players who were exposed in the two EF losses we will end up like the CFC under Ratten and I will never enjoy my footy

Can i ask you a question?

 

[Tiger71]

If other teams can cut some decent deals why can't we?
The last two years have been staggering
I wouldn't have carried on if we didn't get the war chest big name propaganda followed by the chasing of all the list cloggers. This is the rhetoric I hate followed by when they duck up players holding their third leg crying ," we're hurting ohhhhh my heart bleeds so much .it won't happen again"
GTFO and work your arses off from Benny to the gardener and put the 40 million into a successful venture rather than spin and tears
I'm armed today and fully ready for the mob mentality

I appreciate your response but you actually did not answer the question

 

[TJTIGER]

will be delisted at end of 2015 I suspect.

I'm not sure of his upside either. Hope he smashes it though. I have a feeling you may be right though UTG.....