If that were so we'd have the best backline in the comp and maybe ever assembled. Reid is a gun. Brown is solid and the other 2 are apprentices, with Keeffe having question marks over adequately every qualifying. Reid a CHB you can build a premiership defense around. The others are KP players you buld around a gun key back.
Mega Thread The 2015 Buckley coaching megathread
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Quicky
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Reid has been our first choice CHF for the past two seasons. When he has played he has carved it up. I don't think he should be left out of the debate because some people would prefer to see him in defense. It's completely relevant to this discussion.
Mr Bombastic
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I thought Buckley coached terribly tonight, he should be sacked.
Quicky
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I don't think our back line has been exposed. I think Brown and Frost have been very good for us in the key posts. Our issues in defense come from a lack of rebounding options more than anything. It doesn't fuss me so much that Frost and Brown have a lack of rebound as key defenders. That is trading and recruitment issue with our medium and small defenders. The loss of Shaw hurt. And there weren't any replacements. We seem to have looked to redress this in the last two drafts somewhat.
Just adding to the back line debate I also believe our midfield / or perhaps our high risk game plan has left them out to dry in recent years.
Starcevich90
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Well, according to our coach, Reid is earmarked for defence anyway. And with Keeffe being remoulded as a forward, the problem would seem to stand.
Starcevich90
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How about you? Do you see those guys as the defensive pillars to take us back to the top 4? Or Cloke and Keeffe up front? It's hardly awe inspiring.
Quicky
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Maybe, maybe not. Reports from training are that Reid is being played in both roles. In any case I still think Reid deserves a place in the debate about our key forwards.
Apex36
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Actually, our coach has said he will be started in defence and used at both ends of the ground as needed.
Both Keeffe and Reid were switching between forward and defence in match simulation on Monday. At this stage I wouldn't be pigeonholing either of them in a specific position.
Starcevich90
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Regardless, it still seems we are searching and searching for a solution to a problem of our own creation.
The thought of Keeffe, White and or Gault as forward targets gives me shudders.
Apex36
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At this stage I'd prefer Reid to play forward, as none of our other options will likely be an effective foil for Cloke, and none of them even come close to being the forward threat he is.
Keeffe, I believe is capable of far more than we saw from him in 2014. In 2012 when Brown went down and Keeffe was thrown in the deep end, he did an amazing job, and even in the back end of 2013 he was doing very well working in tandem with Brown when Reid pushed forward.
As a side note, I believe our defence has been more exposed in the past year more due to our mids being beaten consistently, and not running both ways like they did in 2010-12. Whether this is due to coaching or the changes to the game that favour endurance over burst running (which is what Buttifant trained us for), I'm not sure, but it will be interesting to see whether our midfield can improve this year given their reported fitness gains.
Apex36
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You're likely right about the problem of our own creation bit, but dwelling on what could have been is a bit pointless. I'd much rather concentrate on what's the best solution to our current issues.
I don't mind White as a forward, but it has to be in the Leigh Brown mould of 3rd tall/relief ruck imo. Like Brown before him, he's not enough of a threat as a forward to rely on him kicking multiple goals every week. If he'd spent last year as the 3rd tall and got 20 goals and played relief ruck, I would have been happy. As a second tall though, he was very underwhelming.
I'm certainly not sold on Keeffe or Gault. It will be interesting to see our line up for round 1.
jmac70
On the porch
We don't need two monster forwards. Improved disposal will fix our goal kicking problems.
Clokey is the best mark in the league but even he can't cope with 2 and 3 on 1s.
Another option has to emerge
Depends on what you call monster. Better delivery will help but not solve our forward issues. If Cloke kicks 80 goals we still won't play finals IMO because it will be too high as a % of our total goals if we don't have a quality tall option. Even in 2010 when we had multiple smaller options and a dominant midfield we still opted for a more old fashioned FF to compliment the forward line with Cloke at CHF and that was with a viable 3rd tall option in Brown.
Not difficult to figure out why our mids were being beaten consistently. We lost Thomas and Wellingham out of the midfield and Swan, Ball and Beams spent periods injured. Too many holes in the midfield opening up and not enough games of experience in Adams, Dwyer and Thomas trying to fill the holes. Adding to that we lose our rebound at half back with Shaw being moved on and Reid being tried at CHF. No coach in the world can cover those changes in such a short time and until DeGoey, Freeman, Goodyear and Crisp learn to play in the midfield and to a lesser extent, Greenwood and Varcoe adapt to playing in a new team, we are going to struggle.
jmac70
On the porch
I agree that we need other options. Ideally we will get 30 plus goals from both Elliott and Fasolo with the midfield also contributing. If Keeffe can present as a viable target it will take some of the pressure off Cloke. I think our biggest problem is the tendency to bomb the ball to Cloke instead of hitting up shorter targets. The Hawks are the blueprint for how good sides move the ball forward.
Mids kick goals we win. It's that simple. Cloke is always going to kick his 2-3.
Most important thing though is keeping the opposition from scoring freely against us.
If he has 2-3 on him we are doing something wrong by looking for him. Where are the extra 2-3 men on our side? It should be those loose guys running forward creating free options!
ipswichpies
Premiership Player
We were at our best when we could find 10+ goal kickers a week and I am not sure we have that many options now,if we can retain the effort we put in early last season for 3 or 4 weeks longer this season we should be close to finals football again.
If we make make finals and even better win one I will be happy and satisfied with that.I am not on the doom and gloom list and never will,we looked alright last year before it all turned bad.We were not good enough to win it by a long shot but we showed we could compete at times against good opposition and that is all we can ask atm.
If we make make finals and even better win one I will be happy and satisfied with that.I am not on the doom and gloom list and never will,we looked alright last year before it all turned bad.We were not good enough to win it by a long shot but we showed we could compete at times against good opposition and that is all we can ask atm.
Are yes the Ross Lyon school of coaching. Hasn't quite work out yet for him though.
Time will tell and nobody knows what the best option will be until it is trialled over time. Playing Reid back makes our defence stronger. Playing him forward makes our forward line stronger. It's all a no brainer. I think they should and will trial a range of strategies to see what works best. We all have an uneducated preference but until we see it on the field over a length of time we will never know.
PTpie
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I think this year if we have a good run with injury we will see a much more mobile forward line. I believe having Fasolo and Elliott in there with Cloke and Keeffe/Reid + Resting ruckman (White, Witts or Grundy) and resting mid (Swan, Broomhead, Pendles, Kennedy, Thomas) we have enough options to kick a winning score.
Cloke needs to bring it to ground if he can't mark it and let the smalls do the work. I can quite easily visualise Elliott and Fasolo both kicking 30+ goals this season based on their previous efforts. Those two lads are wonderful set shots and have superb marking skills and incredible goal sense. Fasolo in particular reminds me of Akermanis sometimes - he just knows where the big sticks are and somehow gets the ball onto his boot.
If the smalls create scoring pressure it will free Travis up to get a few one on one's and he will dominate ala 2011 and 2013.
Cloke needs to bring it to ground if he can't mark it and let the smalls do the work. I can quite easily visualise Elliott and Fasolo both kicking 30+ goals this season based on their previous efforts. Those two lads are wonderful set shots and have superb marking skills and incredible goal sense. Fasolo in particular reminds me of Akermanis sometimes - he just knows where the big sticks are and somehow gets the ball onto his boot.
If the smalls create scoring pressure it will free Travis up to get a few one on one's and he will dominate ala 2011 and 2013.
jmac70
On the porch
I agree with you TG. The number of 'coast to coast' goals scored against us in 2014 was embarrasing. The best sides have a large spread of goal kickers. Improving our disposal in terms of skill and choice of target will hopefully rectify this to some extent.
It's just more reason to strengthen up the back line again. We leaked a lot on the counter and I think Buckley has learnt it's time put the AA CHB back in his place to plug the hole.
Apex36
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Coast to coast goals have a lot more to do with our mids being outrun than it does our last line being weak.
Moving Reid back won't change that. Hopefully our supposed improvement in our endurance will.
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