The 5 - Rioli, Hale, Sewell, Spanger, Lake

[Hodginator]

It sure is a noodle scratcher but I definitely wouldn't be dropping Litherland for Lake. I'd also bring Spangher in down back and put Shoey forward. But that does leave us pretty big and I've got no idea who to drop.

 

[walhawk]

So this is the new Best 22 thread?
Lock Lithers in.
The ones under pressure are Langford, Suckling, Woodwood and Shoe
Lithers Lake Gibbo
Birch Stratts Burgers
Smith Mitch Hill
Lewis Shoe Gunston
Bruest Rough Rioli
McEvoy Hodge Shiels
Ceglar Sewell Pup Simpkin (sub)
Emerg - Suckers Hale Langford Spang

 

[Always Hawks]

Sydney were (and Geelong will be) a little too tall for our line-up on Saturday, so you don't need to make like-for-like swaps.

Lake in for Woodward
Rioli in
One of Simpkin, Langford, Sewell, Hartung gets the last spot
Spangher vs Shoe is a toss up
Ceglar vs Hale also a toss up
God knows who is sub - it could quite possibly be Cyril for a few weeks while he gets fit

Suckling is the most underrated player on this board and is very important for our link play and setting up our attack. I can't see him missing unless say the weather is awful and you replace him with Langford for extra grunt

 

[markr]

While Sydney were tall, a big part of us beating them was that they were tall and slow and we beat them with run when the game opened up. When it came time to make our sub we went shorter and more mobile again. I do agree with what you've said, but we need to make sure we don't bring in Lake and Sewell and suddenly lose too much pace.

Lake comes in, but he would want to show some of last year's form before finals, he's been terrible this year. For mine Schoenmaker's stays, if for only so that we can swap him on to Lake's man if he is getting cut up again (never thought I'd say that). I'd love to see us play a few games with Lake at fullback, Schoenmaker's at CHB and Gibson as the third tall. Gibson would create havok not having to guard the best player himself, and we get a look at Schoenmaker's with some support around him. I'm not saying that's how we play finals, but I'd like to see us line up like that in the regular season to try it out.

 

[threesixpio]

Litgerland

I love the thought of Lake returning, however I do not want to contemplate omitting Litherland. It needs to be someone else.

Looking forward to getting Cyril back too.

Litherland?!

 

[Main Man]

While Sydney were tall, a big part of us beating them was that they were tall and slow and we beat them with run when the game opened up. When it came time to make our sub we went shorter and more mobile again. I do agree with what you've said, but we need to make sure we don't bring in Lake and Sewell and suddenly lose too much pace.

This is exactly the reason Lake needs to replace Schoemakers unless there is a need for us to be stopping 2 x Gorilla forwards (which there will not be) because otherwise we start to become slower as you have suggested Sydney were on Saturday night and I agree with you.

Gibbo, Stratton, Litherland and Spangher all have better speed and decision making than Schoemakers with ball in hand and this the reason I want Spangher in before Schoemakers, much better equipped to take the 2nd/3rd tall than Schoey who is more suited to the Gorilla type.

This is also the reason why suggesting Schoemakers forward this season is a very ordinary idea (in my opinion) as the only thing he is going to do is slow down what is already one of the better functioning forward lines in recent history as the stats suggest.

He just doesn't fit this year unless Lake is unavailable in my opinion.

 

[play2win]

i dont think either lake or spangher are a better match up for tippett and buddy than what we already had on saturday. tippet will always beat us on the lead and some 1-1 contested high balls, and buddy will do as buddy does. the selections come down to backline structure and availability more than anything else. i do like having spangher in the team tho.

 

[threesixpio]

Why mess too much with a winning formula? Spanger, Schoey and Lake is way too tall.

People forget the value of McEvoy who can stay on the ground all day and do heaps of groundwork too.

Hate to say it but my best 22 doesn't have Spanger or Schoey. Lake in for Schoey and Rioli in for WW.

I actually like Schoey - but what would you prefer? Simpkin doing a number on Malceski (for example) or a swingman?

Team balance.

Maybe against Cats you might bring in another tall but Im not sure really

 

[hawksalltheway]

i think Hale's goal scoring / fwd marking will see him come in for Cegs come September....i think Ceglar has been great and is superb around the ground....but just not sure he has enough impact up forward....

i think Shoe is above Spang also....barely, and may

lake in for sure

but as most on here feel, i dont want Gus dropped...he has been superb running out of defence....backs himself and more often than not will win a ground ball contest...gun

simpkins job on mal-hipster saturday night was great...may just have found him a new role!...but would have loved him to kick that goal on the run, would have sealed it nice and early!

rioli in for WW
hale in for cegs
lake in for ?????some unlucky guy
Sewell / Simpkin / Langers...fighting for 2 spots perhaps

waiting in the wings -- Doc, Billy, Cegs, Boxer, Spang, ?


nice problems to have people!

 

[Adebisi]

Anyone else get the feeling Clarko was hinting that Lake wasn't a sure thing to come back in after suspension?

 

[gianytee]

The issue is with dropping Schoey for Lake......is that if Lake is getting dominated who is the Plan B???? Gibson would get killed by bigger forwards e.g. Petrie, Hawkins, Cloke etc thats the real concern Schoey has shown he can play very well on the big forwards and it will work well come September as Lake is great at reading the play and playing off his man so i think Lake and Schoenmakers can play in the same team. Spangher not so much as his best attribute is reading the play but not great 1 on 1 so he really only offers the same as Gibson, Lake, Stratton etc

Keep in mind Schoey has done really well on Walker, Tippett, Petrie, Riewoldt, Cameron, Schulz most of which are some elite forwards.

 

[apiro]

Litherland stays IMO. This guy has got plenty of upside and is on a steep improvement curve IMO. Had the few bad moments against Buddy on the weekend but who in the AFL with his physical attributes and experience could have done better in those situations?

 

[hawksalltheway]

Litherland stays IMO. This guy has got plenty of upside and is on a steep improvement curve IMO. Had the few bad moments against Buddy on the weekend but who in the AFL with his physical attributes and experience could have done better in those situations?

agree

if Bud wants to take one handed marks over the back....then Bud is going to take one handed marks over the back
no-one can stop that...gus did ok...lets not forget he has about a dozen games experience....and was thrown in against the greatest forward in the game....

the one where he turned Gibbo and then beat him in the foot race...i wouldnt mind seeing litherland in that situation, might have got close enough to spoil / pressure him out of it

 

[MrFujiMoto]

Rioli in for one of Woody or Simpkin easily (most likely Woody).

Lake in for who the hell knows. Maybe he comes in for Shoenmakers. PLay the same defense that claimed the title last year.

I would want Spangher in the side but I am not sure who makes way. Duryea is already out now that Gibbo is back and Lithers stood tall when we were under fire in the third. It might come down to match ups, Lithers was completely beaten when he was one out against Franklin or Tippett, and that is expected. If the GF was against Sydney you might see him swapped for Spangher, purely based on body size

Sewell is an interesting one. If he is fit, and I mean really fit (none of this Hodgey / Ellis / Burgoyne '12 type of fit) then he is a must. He is still built for finals footy and I think it would be a player like Simpkin or Langford that would have to make way. Simpkin was good at playing a negating HF on Malcieski. Shiels stepped up to take Kennedy, who was Langers on?

Hale might struggle, although he kicked 5 on the weekend. We saw with big boy that was not an automatic recall into the seniors. Cegs was subbed but I didn't think he was bad enough to be dropped. Hale / McEvoy and Cegs are really a flip of the coin. Maybe the ressies has been the kick up the backside Hale needed.

 

[pacman]

No way Litherland goes he can play on smalls - Eddie Betts and medium talls.
He has speed and a penetrating kick.

Shoey is in trouble for mine.

 

[Roy boys]

No point beating around the bush, if buddy and Tippett kicked straight they probably win the game Saturday night. In isolation I thought Shoey and Gibbo were pretty good considering how open sydneys forward line often was. For this reason I think Lake must come in to help the height rather then replace it. He is the best intercepting marking full back of the last decade and gibbo is probably the best spoiling 3rd man up defender in the league over the previous 5 years. Having either of these 2 playing that role I think outweighs Litherland role. Litherland will play 150 games and I'm not underselling him I just think he may miss out this year.

 

[Flag08]

If you look at the 5 mentioned in this thread and add Doc and Billy you have an idea of our best 29. Looking at those extra 7 players it shows we are well covered for backmen, ruckmen/tall forward and mids/runners if any of the first choice players get injured. Where we have no backup whatsoever is someone to replace Rough or Gunner. A loss of either of those blokes would hurt.

 

[Roy boys]

When you consider Whitecross was an automatic selection prior to injury and Jed Anderson was well on his way to establishing himself that speaks volumes of the depth. I dare say though that both Woodward and Hartung are not yet ready for senior finals footy at this very early stage of there careers.

 

[Sirlemsip]

If you look at the 5 mentioned in this thread and add Doc and Billy you have an idea of our best 29. Looking at those extra 7 players it shows we are well covered for backmen, ruckmen/tall forward and mids/runners if any of the first choice players get injured. Where we have no backup whatsoever is someone to replace Rough or Gunner. A loss of either of those blokes would hurt.

That is where Shoey becomes important.

When you consider Whitecross was an automatic selection prior to injury and Jed Anderson was well on his way to establishing himself that speaks volumes of the depth. I dare say though that both Woodward and Hartung are not yet ready for senior finals footy at this very early stage of there careers.

I think Jed is the true long term replacement for Mitchell, whereas either Woody/Boxer are the long term Sewell replacements.
Whitecross i suppose is a poor man's Burgoyne - he can play a variety of roles, though he is certainly not as silky.

Given the way rotations now are, I think Clarko's proactiveness in preparing with Hill/Smith/Hartung will serve us well moving forwards.

 

[threesixpio]

Rioli in for one of Woody or Simpkin easily (most likely Woody).

Lake in for who the hell knows. Maybe he comes in for Shoenmakers. PLay the same defense that claimed the title last year.

I would want Spangher in the side but I am not sure who makes way. Duryea is already out now that Gibbo is back and Lithers stood tall when we were under fire in the third. It might come down to match ups, Lithers was completely beaten when he was one out against Franklin or Tippett, and that is expected. If the GF was against Sydney you might see him swapped for Spangher, purely based on body size

Sewell is an interesting one. If he is fit, and I mean really fit (none of this Hodgey / Ellis / Burgoyne '12 type of fit) then he is a must. He is still built for finals footy and I think it would be a player like Simpkin or Langford that would have to make way. Simpkin was good at playing a negating HF on Malcieski. Shiels stepped up to take Kennedy, who was Langers on?

Hale might struggle, although he kicked 5 on the weekend. We saw with big boy that was not an automatic recall into the seniors. Cegs was subbed but I didn't think he was bad enough to be dropped. Hale / McEvoy and Cegs are really a flip of the coin. Maybe the ressies has been the kick up the backside Hale needed.

I have a feeling that McEvoy might kick some serious arse from here on

 

[MrFujiMoto]

...
I think Jed is the true long term replacement for Mitchell, whereas either Woody/Boxer are the long term Sewell replacements.
Whitecross i suppose is a poor man's Burgoyne - he can play a variety of roles, though he is certainly not as silky.

Given the way rotations now are, I think Clarko's proactiveness in preparing with Hill/Smith/Hartung will serve us well moving forwards.

I see Jed as more of a Hodge replacement than a Mitchell replacement. I think Woody is the closest we have to a Mitchell replacement and Boxer and Langers are our next Sewell. We still have WhiteX, Lewis and Shiels as starting mids when they are fit. I think Shiels is a lot like Lewis but about 2 - 3 years behind him in development. Plus Shiels can run all day, every day.

 

[parsons nose]

I think a lot of us have been seduced by Lakes performance in the grand final. Along with junior boy, he is the missing piece to the puzzle. My concern is that he'll be going into the finals with very little game time under his belt and with modest form behind him. We can't therefore assume any Norn Smith like performances from him when the whips are cracking. I for one will be hoping he can gain some semblance of touch prior to September, given his importance to our structures.

The question may then become can we afford a Lake light on for games and form in the same team with a less talented but more predictable Shoe come finals?

 

[MrFujiMoto]

I think a lot of us have been seduced by Lakes performance in the grand final. Along with junior boy, he is the missing piece to the puzzle. My concern is that he'll be going into the finals with very little game time under his belt and with modest form behind him. We can't therefore assume any Norn Smith like performances from him when the whips are cracking. I for one will be hoping he can gain some semblance of touch prior to September, given his importance to our structures.

The question may then become can we afford a Lake light on for games and form in the same team with a less talented but more predictable Shoe come finals?

The only predictability I see with Shoe at the moment is that I can see him doing all of the following every week -

a) Getting beaten one out 70% of the time
b) Getting generally beaten when the ball comes in with repeat entries
c) Having one moment a game that really stands out as costing us a goal (Dropped mark / missed spoil / caught scragging etc)

Other than that I am not sure what I will get on the positive side of the ledger. I really like the guy but he has not seemed up to it in defense for some reason. Hope he gets his best form back because then he is valuable and dangerous. I also hope he finds a bit of mongrel lying around the joint

 

[B&GBlood]

No point beating around the bush, if buddy and Tippett kicked straight they probably win the game Saturday night. In isolation I thought Shoey and Gibbo were pretty good considering how open sydneys forward line often was. For this reason I think Lake must come in to help the height rather then replace it. He is the best intercepting marking full back of the last decade and gibbo is probably the best spoiling 3rd man up defender in the league over the previous 5 years. Having either of these 2 playing that role I think outweighs Litherland role. Litherland will play 150 games and I'm not underselling him I just think he may miss out this year.

Sorry Roy Boy, I disagree. Both teams had the same number of scoring shots and both teams were profligate during their runs of play. If the Hawks had kicked straight early in the first we would have been 5 goals up before they scored. Budd and Rough both had 8 scoring shots and I think we had about 5-6 more inside 50. Two misses really cost them when they had the run Goodes and Tippett in the middle of the third, could have got out to a 5-6 goal break.

 

[Great 2008]

I think a lot of us have been seduced by Lakes performance in the grand final. Along with junior boy, he is the missing piece to the puzzle. My concern is that he'll be going into the finals with very little game time under his belt and with modest form behind him. We can't therefore assume any Norn Smith like performances from him when the whips are cracking. I for one will be hoping he can gain some semblance of touch prior to September, given his importance to our structures.

The question may then become can we afford a Lake light on for games and form in the same team with a less talented but more predictable Shoe come finals?

Agree. Lake is going to have to play some absolute blinders before the finals to demand a spot.