The A-League - how big can it get?

[ashley12]

Gold Coast failure was partially a function of Palmer and his lunacy, much in the same way that Newcastle and their recent failures have been a function of Tinkler.

It is one of the six biggest cities in Australia, already has a built in rivalry with Brisbane, has one good option for a stadium and can use Metricon stadium as incentive for Stadiums Qld to play ball when negotiating a lease that GCU at the time could not.

If not as a stand alone side, the idea of a Queensland United team based out of GC but playing four games a year around Qld certainly has to be one of the better options.

NZ is an interesting one. It is hard to tell exactly how much pressure the AFC is putting on Australia in terms of possibly being excluded from the AFC, but I know for a fact that the AFC didn't like the Phoenix from the start. By thumbing our noses at promotion and relegation, they might view excluding NZ as a necessary step to ensure membership in the AFC in the ongoing future. But that is all speculation on my end.

If they did toss the Phoenix this year, would they go next year with 9 or try to find a team from somewhere to join the competition to even the numbers?

 

[NUFC Tiger]

gold coast failed, they wont go back there.

They probably would go back at some point, its too big a market for the game not to have a presence in.

I think they will in time, just not any time soon. While they needed (and would again need) someone of Clive Palmer's financial status around the club to make it work, he seemingly treated GC United with disdain at best. Not great for anyone.

Agreed, I'm sure they could find a consortium of wealthy investors who'd potentially be interested - isn't it one of the fastest growing cities in Australia?

Gold Coast failure was partially a function of Palmer and his lunacy, much in the same way that Newcastle and their recent failures have been a function of Tinkler.

It is one of the six biggest cities in Australia, already has a built in rivalry with Brisbane, has one good option for a stadium and can use Metricon stadium as incentive for Stadiums Qld to play ball when negotiating a lease that GCU at the time could not.

If not as a stand alone side, the idea of a Queensland United team based out of GC but playing four games a year around Qld certainly has to be one of the better options.

NZ is an interesting one. It is hard to tell exactly how much pressure the AFC is putting on Australia in terms of possibly being excluded from the AFC, but I know for a fact that the AFC didn't like the Phoenix from the start. By thumbing our noses at promotion and relegation, they might view excluding NZ as a necessary step to ensure membership in the AFC in the ongoing future. But that is all speculation on my end.

If they did toss the Phoenix this year, would they go next year with 9 or try to find a team from somewhere to join the competition to even the numbers?

A Queensland United team is an interesting concept (similar to a Victoria United based out of Geelong). I know the Northern Fury would like to eventually get back into the A League but it seems the FFA seem to think Brisbane (or Gold Coast) would be the best place for a second QLD side.

As for the Phoenix, I'm guessing there is a contractual requirement whereby they need to have 10 teams for the TV rights deal with broadcasters. I don't think the FFA would turf them at this stage but you could be certain a few would express an interest in taking their place (Wollongong, Fury, maybe even a NPL side with an established fanbase like South Melbourne even).

 

[Mr_Bojangles]

They probably would go back at some point, its too big a market for the game not to have a presence in.



Agreed, I'm sure they could find a consortium of wealthy investors who'd potentially be interested - isn't it one of the fastest growing cities in Australia?



A Queensland United team is an interesting concept (similar to a Victoria United based out of Geelong). I know the Northern Fury would like to eventually get back into the A League but it seems the FFA seem to think Brisbane (or Gold Coast) would be the best place for a second QLD side.

As for the Phoenix, I'm guessing there is a contractual requirement whereby they need to have 10 teams for the TV rights deal with broadcasters. I don't think the FFA would turf them at this stage but you could be certain a few would express an interest in taking their place (Wollongong, Fury, maybe even a NPL side with an established fanbase like South Melbourne even).

That's how they tried to market the Gippsland Falcons in the NSL. "The only regional team in the league!" was how it was marketed and was just bizarre. Geelong is obviously bigger than Gippsland though.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

That's how they tried to market the Gippsland Falcons in the NSL. "The only regional team in the league!" was how it was marketed and was just bizarre. Geelong is obviously bigger than Gippsland though.

Guessing the Gippsland Falcons didn't have much success with that?

I think the article I saw floating the 'Victoria United' idea suggested most games being played in Geelong (who probably have the population and potential market to sustain a team) with a few games being played in regional places like Ballarat and Bendigo.

 

[Ze Boy]

It'd be great to see another NZ franchise pop up, it'd make the presence of Wellington a bit more relevant given they operate as a bit of an outlier at the moment. South Melbourne probably aren't viable, the Melbourne market's saturated with Victory and Heart so I think a third Melbourne side is a long way off, introducing SM would just dilute the existing supporter base. I think manufacturing a successful secondary team in Queensland could be the next step, there's a market for it provided it doesn't turn to s**t like the last couple of attempts.

How much do you know about SMFC? They already draw reasonably well (For a team in div 1 state league) and arguably have a large latent supporter base that doesn't support either the Heart or Melbourne.

Best of all they've got a near perfect boutique 10k capacity stadium to play out of which they share with Athletics Victoria.

Not only that, they have a definable difference of identity to both Melbourne and the Heart unlike the first (failed) iteration of that franchise.

I reckon the only viable option at this point for expansion within Melbourne is SMFC.

Yes many current Victory supporters are former SMFC supporters but the ones I know who were wouldn't trade Victory for any of the old teams.

 

[Redalert]

Cheers for articles @NU

How much do you know about SMFC? They already draw reasonably well (For a team in div 1 state league) and arguably have a large latent supporter base that doesn't support either the Heart or Melbourne.

Best of all they've got a near perfect boutique 10k capacity stadium to play out of which they share with Athletics Victoria.

Not only that, they have a definable difference of identity to both Melbourne and the Heart unlike the first (failed) iteration of that franchise.

I reckon the only viable option at this point for expansion within Melbourne is SMFC.

Yes many current Victory supporters are former SMFC supporters but the ones I know who were wouldn't trade Victory for any of the old teams.

I know a fair bit about them, I'm not a SMFC fan by any stretch, but I have seen what they can do in the VPL. The biggest obstacle facing SMFC is the stigma associated with them during the old NSL days, the whole ethnic background angle was the exact reason why the FFA launched a rebrand of most of the A-league franchises. The FFA were scared of reigniting the old cultural ties to football clubs because it reduces mass market appeal, and also because there was the perception that it exacerbated violence between rival sides.

I just don't see South Melbourne ever overcoming this obstacle.

 

[Ze Boy]

I honestly don't think the stigma would matter as much as it used to, it's been a long time since NSL and I imagine for many mainstream people the name South Melbourne is more identifiable with the Sydney Swans.

To make it even more safe, you can't really say that when it comes to supporter getting stigmatized in a-league no one gets it more than MVFC and WSW supporters.

In my mind if South came in most regular people wouldn't bat an eyelid about it in fact much like Brisbane Roar not many would associate them with Greece.

Now before going further, most sports fans and maybe later aged folk would know about SMFC but I reckon most people like that are already set in their waus or already supporting either MVFC or the Heart.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

While not specifically relating to the A League, this is a bit of good news for the code in general and a sign of the growth its had in recent years. Football is set to surpass (guessing for the first time ever) both Rugby League and Rugby Union in sponsorship revenue.

Also interesting to note Hyundai (the A-League's naming rights partner)'s deal to sponsor the league ends at the end of next season - I wonder if there will be any other companies interested in securing the naming rights and driving the sponsorship price up?

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au...y-league-and-union/10v6i7q6o0ltr1dkeqeot1mt1w

 

[Seethus]

Also interesting to note Hyundai (the A-League's naming rights partner)'s deal to sponsor the league ends at the end of next season - I wonder if there will be any other companies interested in securing the naming rights and driving the sponsorship price up?

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au...y-league-and-union/10v6i7q6o0ltr1dkeqeot1mt1w

Ends their Hyundai deal and definitely not renewing?

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Ends their Hyundai deal and definitely not renewing?

I think its just their current deal ends next season - not sure if they have stated any intentions to renew or not.

Hopefully they are still interested in continuing (as well as a few others potentially bidding to drive up the price).

 

[Steven Gerrard]

Australia's population is currently about 23 million. NSW has 7.37 million according to:

http://mccrindle.com.au/resources/A...p-Generational-Profile_McCrindle-Research.pdf

which equates to about 32% of the population, yet it has 40 per cent of the clubs in the AL, an even higher ratio when it's a percentage of the Australian based AL clubs (when you take out Wellington the ratio is 44%).

On the other hand, Victoria at 5.69 million has 25% of the population yet has 20% of the clubs.

Put differently, for every AL club in NSW, there is 1.8M people. For every AL club in Victoria, there is 2.8M people. So where are the fish at?

Clearly, if you want to fish where the fish are, then don't fish in NSW too much more, it is getting saturated as it is up there. Two of the 4 clubs in NSW are really struggling and 1 of them should have done much better. Sydney FC has had 10 years to secure the greater Sydney region yet based on attendances over the 10 years, it has failed miserably IMO.

If South Sydney comes in and steals fans from FC like WSW did and generates a few of its own, would this be any better for the AL than having a club start up in say Tasmania? Why haven't those fans in south Sydney already been engaged by FC? I can understand why for west Sydney, you only have to go onto the 'Ultras Mentality Australia' Facebook page to see there is bad blood between the people of the west and the east of Sydney, and they use the AL to express their mutual dislike for eachother. I'm no demographics expert in Sydney, but could the same be said of the east and south of Sydney too?

I can see room in the AL for 6 more clubs in the long term.

1) South Melbourne. Apparently it owns its own stadium. It would need to upgrade it for AL of course but playing rent free would be huge for this club. It also has a base of fans from which to build and it can play on its history and tradition, unlike Heart which had no base and no history or tradition. By all reports, Melbourne is set to overtake Sydney in population in the next few decades which will help the Melbourne based clubs.

2) Geelong/Victoria. Again, 25% of the population, 20% of the clubs. An extra club in Victoria will bring some parity to this mismatch.

3) Canberra. I think it's worth a go. Nation's capital plus it's surrounded by NSW and would look to possibly draw some of the 7.39 million people which surround it in addition to its own population.

4) Hobart/Tasmania. Tasmania is crying out for a club in a national league. Watch the AFL put a club down there as soon as the A-League does.

5) Another team in NSW, but that would be it as far as NSW is concerned. Where in NSW it would be I'm not sure but no more than 5 clubs for that state.

6) Either in QLD or Auckland. Both have already failed but I would probably go with Auckland. Seeing Wellington do alright would wet the appetite for Auckland plus you'd have those two Kiwi derbies a year to bump up the crowds. Plus, I've heard before that anything north of Brisbane is a graveyard for sport, save for rugby league.

So 16 clubs, 5 in NSW and 4 in Victoria, 30 rounds, top 6 finals, would work best IMO.

 

[Dan Cooper]

Australia's population is currently about 23 million. NSW has 7.37 million according to:

http://mccrindle.com.au/resources/A...p-Generational-Profile_McCrindle-Research.pdf

which equates to about 32% of the population, yet it has 40 per cent of the clubs in the AL, an even higher ratio when it's a percentage of the Australian based AL clubs (when you take out Wellington the ratio is 44%).

On the other hand, Victoria at 5.69 million has 25% of the population yet has 20% of the clubs.

Put differently, for every AL club in NSW, there is 1.8M people. For every AL club in Victoria, there is 2.8M people. So where are the fish at?

Clearly, if you want to fish where the fish are, then don't fish in NSW too much more, it is getting saturated as it is up there. Two of the 4 clubs in NSW are really struggling and 1 of them should have done much better. Sydney FC has had 10 years to secure the greater Sydney region yet based on attendances over the 10 years, it has failed miserably IMO.

If South Sydney comes in and steals fans from FC like WSW did and generates a few of its own, would this be any better for the AL than having a club start up in say Tasmania? Why haven't those fans in south Sydney already been engaged by FC? I can understand why for west Sydney, you only have to go onto the 'Ultras Mentality Australia' Facebook page to see there is bad blood between the people of the west and the east of Sydney, and they use the AL to express their mutual dislike for eachother. I'm no demographics expert in Sydney, but could the same be said of the east and south of Sydney too?

I can see room in the AL for 6 more clubs in the long term.

1) South Melbourne. Apparently it owns its own stadium. It would need to upgrade it for AL of course but playing rent free would be huge for this club. It also has a base of fans from which to build and it can play on its history and tradition, unlike Heart which had no base and no history or tradition. By all reports, Melbourne is set to overtake Sydney in population in the next few decades which will help the Melbourne based clubs.

2) Geelong/Victoria. Again, 25% of the population, 20% of the clubs. An extra club in Victoria will bring some parity to this mismatch.

3) Canberra. I think it's worth a go. Nation's capital plus it's surrounded by NSW and would look to possibly draw some of the 7.39 million people which surround it in addition to its own population.

4) Hobart/Tasmania. Tasmania is crying out for a club in a national league. Watch the AFL put a club down there as soon as the A-League does.

5) Another team in NSW, but that would be it as far as NSW is concerned. Where in NSW it would be I'm not sure but no more than 5 clubs for that state.

6) Either in QLD or Auckland. Both have already failed but I would probably go with Auckland. Seeing Wellington do alright would wet the appetite for Auckland plus you'd have those two Kiwi derbies a year to bump up the crowds. Plus, I've heard before that anything north of Brisbane is a graveyard for sport, save for rugby league.

So 16 clubs, 5 in NSW and 4 in Victoria, 30 rounds, top 6 finals, would work best IMO.

You raise some interesting points. But it's not purely a population numbers game - if only it were that simple.

Yes the fish have to be there, but you have to ensure the fish there will take the bait you are offering.

That's part of the reason why the AFL have 10 teams in Victoria and only 8 others spread across other parts, and similarly the NRL has it's teams located predominantly in NSW. Yes, history has played a part in that, but there's a lot more to it than just history.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Australia's population is currently about 23 million. NSW has 7.37 million according to:

http://mccrindle.com.au/resources/A...p-Generational-Profile_McCrindle-Research.pdf

which equates to about 32% of the population, yet it has 40 per cent of the clubs in the AL, an even higher ratio when it's a percentage of the Australian based AL clubs (when you take out Wellington the ratio is 44%).

On the other hand, Victoria at 5.69 million has 25% of the population yet has 20% of the clubs.

Put differently, for every AL club in NSW, there is 1.8M people. For every AL club in Victoria, there is 2.8M people. So where are the fish at?

Clearly, if you want to fish where the fish are, then don't fish in NSW too much more, it is getting saturated as it is up there. Two of the 4 clubs in NSW are really struggling and 1 of them should have done much better. Sydney FC has had 10 years to secure the greater Sydney region yet based on attendances over the 10 years, it has failed miserably IMO.

If South Sydney comes in and steals fans from FC like WSW did and generates a few of its own, would this be any better for the AL than having a club start up in say Tasmania? Why haven't those fans in south Sydney already been engaged by FC? I can understand why for west Sydney, you only have to go onto the 'Ultras Mentality Australia' Facebook page to see there is bad blood between the people of the west and the east of Sydney, and they use the AL to express their mutual dislike for eachother. I'm no demographics expert in Sydney, but could the same be said of the east and south of Sydney too?

I can see room in the AL for 6 more clubs in the long term.

1) South Melbourne. Apparently it owns its own stadium. It would need to upgrade it for AL of course but playing rent free would be huge for this club. It also has a base of fans from which to build and it can play on its history and tradition, unlike Heart which had no base and no history or tradition. By all reports, Melbourne is set to overtake Sydney in population in the next few decades which will help the Melbourne based clubs.

2) Geelong/Victoria. Again, 25% of the population, 20% of the clubs. An extra club in Victoria will bring some parity to this mismatch.

3) Canberra. I think it's worth a go. Nation's capital plus it's surrounded by NSW and would look to possibly draw some of the 7.39 million people which surround it in addition to its own population.

4) Hobart/Tasmania. Tasmania is crying out for a club in a national league. Watch the AFL put a club down there as soon as the A-League does.

5) Another team in NSW, but that would be it as far as NSW is concerned. Where in NSW it would be I'm not sure but no more than 5 clubs for that state.

6) Either in QLD or Auckland. Both have already failed but I would probably go with Auckland. Seeing Wellington do alright would wet the appetite for Auckland plus you'd have those two Kiwi derbies a year to bump up the crowds. Plus, I've heard before that anything north of Brisbane is a graveyard for sport, save for rugby league.

So 16 clubs, 5 in NSW and 4 in Victoria, 30 rounds, top 6 finals, would work best IMO.

Some very interesting points mate - if I'm not mistaken, of all those you listed as potential expansion options, I believe all have been mooted or even expressed interest in potentially joining the A League. South Melbourne is an interesting one - I think they originally tried to join the A League when the league was formed (but the FFA decided against it so every club could be seen as part of a 'fresh' start for the game).

Across the ditch, Auckland City (another established club have been suggested as a possible expansion club too) - though surely NZ would need to consider moving to Asia as the fact Wellington play in an AFC associated league rankled a few noses at FIFA I believe.

I'd love to see the FFA put clubs in both Canberra and Tasmania to give the game a presence in those areas (only if they have reasonable confidence that its a viable option long term to do so though). Would also love to see the Fury and Wollongong added in years to come.

 

[Dan Cooper]

Some very interesting points mate - if I'm not mistaken, of all those you listed as potential expansion options, I believe all have been mooted or even expressed interest in potentially joining the A League. South Melbourne is an interesting one - I think they originally tried to join the A League when the league was formed (but the FFA decided against it so every club could be seen as part of a 'fresh' start for the game).

Across the ditch, Auckland City (another established club have been suggested as a possible expansion club too) - though surely NZ would need to consider moving to Asia as the fact Wellington play in an AFC associated league rankled a few noses at FIFA I believe.

I'd love to see the FFA put clubs in both Canberra and Tasmania to give the game a presence in those areas (only if they have reasonable confidence that its a viable option long term to do so though). Would also love to see the Fury and Wollongong added in years to come.

The FFA wanting a "fresh start" wasn't the only reason South Melbourne wasn't included 10 years ago. If it was they would have gained entry instead of Heart a few years back. No, it runs deeper than that.

 

[ilmc]

The FFA wanting a "fresh start" wasn't the only reason South Melbourne wasn't included 10 years ago. If it was they would have gained entry instead of Heart a few years back. No, it runs deeper than that.

I didn't think it was so much the fresh start, but the Greek roots. They may be all-inclusive and say that they no longer have that connection, but how are opposition fans going to behave when playing against them?

FFA didn't want any teams tied to any particular nationality.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

The FFA wanting a "fresh start" wasn't the only reason South Melbourne wasn't included 10 years ago. If it was they would have gained entry instead of Heart a few years back. No, it runs deeper than that.

I didn't think it was so much the fresh start, but the Greek roots. They may be all-inclusive and say that they no longer have that connection, but how are opposition fans going to behave when playing against them?

FFA didn't want any teams tied to any particular nationality.

Yeah, that was pretty much my understanding - due to a lot of the old NSL clubs having strong cultural links.

Would be nice to see South Melbourne in the A League one day - despite not having the A League tag, they still get impressive crowds and seem like a well run organisation.

I'm guessing the FFA wouldn't consider it until City at least establish themselves more in the sporting landscape (as I'm not sure Melbourne could sustain 3 teams just yet).

 

[Steven Gerrard]

You raise some interesting points. But it's not purely a population numbers game - if only it were that simple.

Yes the fish have to be there, but you have to ensure the fish there will take the bait you are offering.

That's part of the reason why the AFL have 10 teams in Victoria and only 8 others spread across other parts, and similarly the NRL has it's teams located predominantly in NSW. Yes, history has played a part in that, but there's a lot more to it than just history.

Thanks mate.

I'm aware that the fish have to take the bait. I addressed FC's inability to capture a significant foothold in my post. Clearly the fish in and around most of Sydney are not taking the FC bait. With well over 4 million people, a championship first up and with no inter city rivalry, FC should have sold out it's 40,000 seater for every home game prior to WSW. It did not. So I'm asking out loud, why does the FFA think the fish in south Sydney think it will take the bait yet the Tasmanians won't. The FFA need to stop this 'it's all about Sydney' mentality that it has adopted from day 1 and realise that there are some clubs ahead of FC which have kept this competition pushing along.

Will a south Sydney club increase TV audiences more than a Tasmanian team? Who knows, but call me a traditionalist, but I think a club needs to stand on its own 2 feet in addition to boosting TV rights revenue, so far 2 clubs North of Victoria have been taken over by the FFA and one has folded completely. Before a 5th club from NSW joins, surely a club from Tasmania needs to join first. Give the south a go.

 

[Steven Gerrard]

Some very interesting points mate - if I'm not mistaken, of all those you listed as potential expansion options, I believe all have been mooted or even expressed interest in potentially joining the A League. South Melbourne is an interesting one - I think they originally tried to join the A League when the league was formed (but the FFA decided against it so every club could be seen as part of a 'fresh' start for the game).

Across the ditch, Auckland City (another established club have been suggested as a possible expansion club too) - though surely NZ would need to consider moving to Asia as the fact Wellington play in an AFC associated league rankled a few noses at FIFA I believe.

I'd love to see the FFA put clubs in both Canberra and Tasmania to give the game a presence in those areas (only if they have reasonable confidence that its a viable option long term to do so though). Would also love to see the Fury and Wollongong added in years to come.

Cheers mate. Yea my suggestions for expansion clubs is nothing new but if we wanna call this a national comp then surely we need the capital and 6th state represented.

On South Melbourne, would be interesting to see how many MV fans defect. MV has a decent fan base which is of Greek descent. I myself being from Adelaide and being half Greek was a big fan of West Adelaide Hellas and thus had a soft spot for SM but no way known I'm leaving MV for SM, no way known. Hopefully many others like me think like me.

 

[treegreen]

Just to clarify, South Melbourne don't own Lakeside stadium.

Personally I don't want South Melbourne back in the league. They're a relic of an era of Balkan ethnic tensions and it's not something the league should be moving back towards.

 

[Dan Cooper]

Just to clarify, South Melbourne don't own Lakeside stadium.

Personally I don't want South Melbourne back in the league. They're a relic of an era of Balkan ethnic tensions and it's not something the league should be moving back towards.

Bob Jane Stadium is a non council owned asset, and the venue is operated by the State Sports Centre Trust, the operators of the Melbourne Sports & Aquatic Centre and the State Netball and Hockey Centre.

http://www.portphillip.vic.gov.au/default/redevelopment_of_bob_jane_stadium.pdf

 

[Redalert]

Just to clarify, South Melbourne don't own Lakeside stadium.

Personally I don't want South Melbourne back in the league. They're a relic of an era of Balkan ethnic tensions and it's not something the league should be moving back towards.

I agree, the A-league needs to leave the old NSL clubs behind it. There's just too many issues associated with the old clubs to make them viable.

 

[Kangapirate]

Just to clarify, South Melbourne don't own Lakeside stadium.

Personally I don't want South Melbourne back in the league. They're a relic of an era of Balkan ethnic tensions and it's not something the league should be moving back towards.

This is a bit of a cheap shot imo, South Melbourne gave us Ange Postecoglou and year in year out quality football before the A league...people from within Melbourne Victory will tell you that the club modelled it's on field attacking mindset on south melbourne.

South melbourne use to compete against Perth, Newcastle, Brisbane and Adelaide United in the Nsl, with no ethnic tensions or violence, whilst they had a minority of trouble makers, they were essentially young teens like the flogs you see at wanderers and victory games today trying to look cool. Adding to that the days of ethnic nationalism are long gone it's not the 80s and 90s anymore. SM are one of the most professional clubs in the country as of this moment despite being a division below the top flight.

This doesn't mean they should be in the A league, but painting them as a relic of a Balkan ethnic era doesn't do them justice as they were always a progressive forward thinking club, and continue to be now. Hopefully they can get over melbourne knights tomorrow in the FFA cup qualifiers cos they would add plenty to the main draw and a potential huge crowd against any A league opposition.

 

[Mr_Bojangles]

Yeah you can't compare Souths to their friends in Sunshine and the Greek and Croatian teams in Sydney. A level above in professionalism in the NSL.

 

[craigos]

I would like to see it get to 13 teams, 26 round season. Whilst the idea of promotion/relegation is great the reality is there just isn't the population and money to support it. I don't think we're quite ready for expansion any time soon but within the next 5 years I'd like to see teams from:

Tasmania
ACT
And a third I'm not sure of. NSW is saturated, Brisbane doesn't have massive support, Adelaide/Perth don't have the population and I'm not sure Geelong is a viable option at present. Maybe North QLD but that along with the Gold Coast have me worried. Auckland is probably the one with the biggest potential but I don't know enough of the commercial aspect of NZ to comment.

 

[Steven Gerrard]

This is a bit of a cheap shot imo, South Melbourne gave us Ange Postecoglou and year in year out quality football before the A league...people from within Melbourne Victory will tell you that the club modelled it's on field attacking mindset on south melbourne.

South melbourne use to compete against Perth, Newcastle, Brisbane and Adelaide United in the Nsl, with no ethnic tensions or violence, whilst they had a minority of trouble makers, they were essentially young teens like the flogs you see at wanderers and victory games today trying to look cool. Adding to that the days of ethnic nationalism are long gone it's not the 80s and 90s anymore. SM are one of the most professional clubs in the country as of this moment despite being a division below the top flight.

This doesn't mean they should be in the A league, but painting them as a relic of a Balkan ethnic era doesn't do them justice as they were always a progressive forward thinking club, and continue to be now. Hopefully they can get over melbourne knights tomorrow in the FFA cup qualifiers cos they would add plenty to the main draw and a potential huge crowd against any A league opposition.

Well said. And let's not forget, South Melbourne was voted as Oceania's team of the century by FIFA. Granted we're in Asia now but for the longest time we were in Oceania.