The Bombers ASADA/WADA Saga
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brizrider
Club Legend
But the general consensus of the AFL I think is that the long-lasting effects of the Carlton penalty was a mistake. The game can't really afford to have clubs in the doldrums for a decade or more. Carlton fans will feel aggrieved that all subsequent punishments aren't comparable to theirs and they deserve to be but multiple wrongs don't make a right. As a rival I actually hate Essendon more than any other club and the fact that they don't seem to 'get' the seriousness of their crime really grates me. If they're not given a fighting chance to repair their club and get back in the game though then we're back into the old days (still supported by Eddie Maguire apparently) of just killing each other off in a survival of the fittest.
Cousin Jed
Retired President of BigFooty
After watching the Jobe Watson press conference, if you think James Hird is owed an apology then you must:
Believe that he had no idea what Dank was up to; and believe in Santa.
Believe that he had no idea what Dank was up to; and believe in Santa.
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PattyKwasagun
Norm Smith Medallist
Can't agree with that. If you accept two things - firstly that no performance enhancing drugs were part of the program, and secondly that Hird knew the extent of mismanagement within the club - then I think there's definitely a reasonable case for why he could feel angry.
As distasteful as it is, the program Dank was running under him and with his awareness is one that today has essentially been deemed to not have included PEDs. And if that's the case, he's guilty only of mistreating his players. Not a great thing at all, and I think says a lot about his character that he'd consider this kind of a program - but certainly not deserving of what he's received over the past 2 years.
I think he's an arrogant prick, if I'm honest. But if there was nothing illegal about the program, then he did not deserve what he's received in my opinion.
Ironmonger
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I'm not sure about that. It seems Hird allowed an environment to be created where cheating was more likely to happen.
Cousin Jed
Retired President of BigFooty
Watson commented that they've spent 2 years not knowing what was taken. That it was deemed not performance enhancing is good for the football careers, do we know what impact the scientific experiment in a footy club may have down the track? Sorry, not sorry.
I just want to know under what section legislation ASADA can get Hird?
Can they retrospectively legislate about haircuts ... allowed styles of headgear ... or anything like that?
Can they retrospectively legislate about haircuts ... allowed styles of headgear ... or anything like that?
PattyKwasagun
Norm Smith Medallist
I agree on that front, but was that due to negligence or was it intentional? Regardless, I would find it hard to justify the treatment he's received over the past 2 years. Worse than many convicted murderers - even ones right in the public eye - receive.
Again, I don't disagree with any of that. It was gross misconduct in terms of running a football club - I don't know how anyone could debate that. But you're saying that he deserved what he got in terms of trial by media, and more particularly how his family was hounded? Easy to forget they're just humans in the end - and I guess that seeing his apology today has brought that point home to me. This is a guy who's clearly made some mistakes that have put him and his family through hell, and after it all it turns out he's found not guilty of the major accusation. Surely there's an element of injustice there?
POBT
Brownlow Medallist
Just can't agree with any of that PattyK. I'm happy to accept the tribunal's call but the broader issues remain and, quite frankly, Hird (and his colleagues involved) are lucky to still be involved in the game.
Because of their actions, the game has been dragged through the mud. Because of their lack of integrity, their supporters have been through hell. Because of their failure to discharge a duty of care, there are still 34 people with no idea what was injected into their bodies.
PattyKwasagun
Norm Smith Medallist
Of course, and I don't dispute any of that. But do you think it justifies a man's family being, in some cases, physically assaulted by the media? I'd argue Hird's name has been dragged through the mud to a much greater extent than the game - and rightfully so, considering his involvement in it all. But seeing him nearly in tears apologising tonight brought home to me the toll this has had on him and his family. And I think it's hard to justify the assault he's received from the media and the general public.
The scary part is that there genuinely are prominent murderers who have received less hate and abuse from both the media and the public than Hird. He's an arrogant man who has made some appalling mistakes and I think they've said a lot about his character, but to suggest it justifies what he's received in return is something I could never agree with. I just have an issue with it all on a purely human level.
POBT
Brownlow Medallist
Hird has taken deliberate steps which are completely contrary to any notion that he wanted this to be dealt with quickly, to save his family from further torment.
He could have dialled down the bloody minded attitude. He could have not appealed what was a near watertight court decision.
If you ask me if I feel for his family, then I do. But there have been sliding doors moments that Hird could have taken and changed the course of events that has put his family through so much. I'd argue that his family have not deserved what Hird has exposed them to.
He could have dialled down the bloody minded attitude. He could have not appealed what was a near watertight court decision.
If you ask me if I feel for his family, then I do. But there have been sliding doors moments that Hird could have taken and changed the course of events that has put his family through so much. I'd argue that his family have not deserved what Hird has exposed them to.
PattyKwasagun
Norm Smith Medallist
Yeah, that's fair - I'd agree with that. I think it's difficult to know how much he was gagged by the club though, and if he might have apologised like he did tonight sooner if he was allowed to.
POBT
Brownlow Medallist
I think one of the issues for Essendon has been their inability to control James Hird.
Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
I liked Gerard Whateley's view on 360 tonight that the verdict is representative of ASADA not knowing what the substance(s) were/was anymore than Essendon.
chopperduck
Brownlow Medallist
The problem has always been with the club, what was given, and why no one seems to know what it was. That in itself, is extremely dangerous, and there should be very harsh penalties. Players are just caught in the middle. End of the day, whether they knew it or not, if they have taken something banned, than they should serve suspensions. As harsh as that is, i still feel it should be the way. From there, the players should be able to question and/or take action against the club if they are/were responsible for the players being suspended.
If an equivalent event occurred the corporate world, Hird would've been stood down (or asked to stand down) years ago and there would be a new CEO/CFO to steer the ship and deal with any media outlet that wanted to flog a dead horse.
He has himself to blame for the trial by media. He fought to clear his own name and keep his job under the guise of doing it for the players. The very same players that he held a position of power over and oversaw mismanagement, incompetence and potentially hazardous boundary-pushing that might have ended up being insufficiently proven; but that has surely tarnished all 34 of them for the rest of their careers at the very least.
He has himself to blame for the trial by media. He fought to clear his own name and keep his job under the guise of doing it for the players. The very same players that he held a position of power over and oversaw mismanagement, incompetence and potentially hazardous boundary-pushing that might have ended up being insufficiently proven; but that has surely tarnished all 34 of them for the rest of their careers at the very least.
Interesting to see him admit he went against club wishes in appealing to the high court and nearly lost his job - I wonder how many other coaches would get away with that. The conspiracy theorist in me says he must have some serious dirt on the club to get away with that nonsense.
dlanod
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And yet those nutters hitched themselves to his wagon for extra years than they needed to. I'm still not sure whether "lunatics running the asylum" or "Stockholm Syndrome" is the most appropriate description.
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The whole thing is just a sordid, grotty little mess at the end of the day that will be a stain on the club, even as people forget the specifics and return to treating Essendon as just another football club. Drug cheats...not drug cheats...in the end it is the club itself that stained its reputation. It is as true of clubs as it is of people...a reputation is hard win and easily lost.
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In no way were essendon the football club found to be not guilty in all of this and to paint a picture of that sort is ignoring the statement of the judiciary completely. It was clearly re stated that the essendon footy club had injected players with substances however there was insufficient evidence to say for sure that it was thymosin beta 4 therefore the players were cleared.
PattyKwasagun
Norm Smith Medallist
Exactly - they were found not guilty of injecting their players with banned substances due to a lack of evidence. Saying that that doesn't equate to them being not guilty is like saying that someone found not guilty of murder may still be guilty just because they don't find the weapon - it's possible, but there's no proof to substantiate such a claim.
They're guilty of mismanagement and a dangerous substance programs, but by the very definition of the term have been found not guilty of using performance enhancing drugs.
So I guess it's a question of what they're guilty of - and I don't think anyone could dispute that they are guilty of an unsafe and idiotic program that arguably should have cost the senior coach and some others their jobs. But they are, on all the evidence available, not guilty of using performance enhancing drugs.
Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
I disagree. They are not guilty of administering the prohibited substance (beta 4). ASADA failed to meet the burden of proof required. Essendon are (I presume) within their rights to inject their players by consent with approved substances.
Its not unequivocal not guilty in the sense we have items A B C D which prove Essendon did not inject beta 4, but its the next best thing - not guilty by means of (essentially) insufficient evidence.
I think the public's outrage is directed at the administering of a prohibited substance finding as opposed to these governance issues which could have been dealt with in a much more satisfactory manner.
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KissKiss
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That "not knowing what they were given" still troubles me, I don't see how people see this as a good thing.
POBT
Brownlow Medallist
I'm comfortable with this as an outcome. There will those complaining that ASADA should not have proceeded but I think they are entitled to test the "comfortable satisfaction" standard of proof.
Essendon has been punished for its failings. That happened in 2013. The tribunal's decision is not about Essendon - it's about the players.
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