The Bombers ASADA/WADA Saga

[Football Pope]

It would be, but my suggestion here, is that those ultimately responsible for that, should be held accountable. And I'm talking separately to the governance guidelines. In this instance, I believe that while Essendon has been dealt with by the AFL for the governance issues, they should also be chargeable or punishable by ASADA. While it can't be proved by ASADA that the individual players were guilty, it is reasonable to expect the club to be punished for administering something they can't prove was given. Does that mean the club gets hit twice? Yes.

I guess this is more fitting or a more reasonable expectation of clubs, but could apply where an individual athlete is in the care of a trainer or doctor. Obviously not to be applied to individual doctors where they are unfamiliar with the athlete or sport. In the case of team sports though, they are always in the care of the club. If something is done outside of that, then the responsibility defaults to the athlete/player.

Dunno, there may be ways around that, but obviously makes it harder. Why does the sports anti-drug mob only scrutinise players? In this sort of business, it is as likely/possible that a club seeks an advantage as it is an individual?

As far as the presumption of innocence goes, no supplement programme should be allowed without sanction, and if you can't show that supplements are legal (ie. what was administered) it should be presumed illegal.

I hope there's a break in at Essendon and a laptop containing all the injection fest info is passed on to ASADA....

 

[Skoob]

Reckon it's all gone, long ago.
When Danks moves to Spain and pens his "tell all" though...
Not that we could believe him or anything be done with that sort of info, but we'll know.

 

[Mavlions1961]

What do other reckon.

Does Bomber look a little uneasy on AFL360??

 

[Skoob]

What do other reckon.

Does Bomber look a little uneasy on AFL360??

Haven't read any actual articles, but read a teaser saying he was surprised they "got of".
Not surprised he's surprised. He knows the truth.

 

[Dizzle]

It's a fully professional environment (supposedly), the clubs monitor everything that goes into the players, but then dont monitor nor record what they inject them with??

Imagine Ryan Crowley if he was at Essendon; "Sorry guys, just found out that I took a tablet that was on the banned list. Should have checked first eh?"

Club "Don't be too hard on yourself, we cant remember what we pumped into you for the last few months, despite the fact that we 'hirded' three dozen or so of you into a secret location multiple times weekly"...

 

[James North]

My beard causes rain wherever I go. I am to blame for Melbourne's weather and Brisbane's recent downpour. Also, I love ibises.

What's that got to do with anything?

 

[maroon and blue]

It worries me that a quasi government organisation like ASADA can make unfounded allegations and use the hue and cry of the media without any tangible evidence to convict people. Stalinism, Nazism, McCarthyism at its best. The fellow that is its mouthpiece is a self seeking egomaniac who spouts the rhetoric that those ism's would be proud of.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Stalinism, Nazism, McCarthyism at its best.

Oh Christ.

 

[maroon and blue]

Oh Christ.

You really are a poonce.

 

[Viceregal]

It worries me that a quasi government organisation like ASADA can make unfounded allegations and use the hue and cry of the media without any tangible evidence to convict people. Stalinism, Nazism, McCarthyism at its best. The fellow that is its mouthpiece is a self seeking egomaniac who spouts the rhetoric that those ism's would be proud of.

Or make well founded allegations that were unable to be proven before a tribunal due to lack of evidence that any reasonable person would accept should have been in the possession of the club etc which the media happily ran with for their own purposes.

If ASADA was one of the ism's you mentioned then one Master Hird would have been up before a firing squad/sent to a camp/become a non-person a long long time ago now.

Comparing the ASADA guy's speech to Hitler's at Nuremberg ... I think one of them gets a few more demagoguery points than the other one.

 

[matwt73]

It worries me that a quasi government organisation like ASADA can make unfounded allegations and use the hue and cry of the media without any tangible evidence to convict people. Stalinism, Nazism, McCarthyism at its best. The fellow that is its mouthpiece is a self seeking egomaniac who spouts the rhetoric that those ism's would be proud of.

I actually think that the allegations were well founded.

But just failed to satisfy the tribunal.

The findings as to where the tribunal were not satisfied seem interesting though.

Charter ordered, TB-4. But we aren't satisfied that is what he got.
Alavi thought he was compounding TB-4, but we can't be satisfied that he was.

And though it didn't need to decide it, I assume that ther third limb would have been. Dank intended that the players be injected with TB-4, but we can't be satisfied that was what it was.

The case was against the players, and the finding was not made out that they were 'guilty of taking a banned substance', it in no way exonerates, the program as a whole.

 

[matwt73]

Sorry for the double post.

But further to my comments above I would suggest that the findings of the tribunal still retain the possibility of getting Dank for intention (if that is an offence).

The players never intended to take a banned substance, they did their (albeit naive, incompetent) best to ensure that what they were injected with was not banned. Nor can it be said that they ever intended to be injected with TB-4, they intended to be injected with Thymosin.

I would suggest that there might still be evidence that Dank on the other hand intended to inject them with TB-4, and even if we cannot now say what they got, his intention was to administer a banned substance. Don't think they will but we'll see.

 

[winged1]

Haven't read any actual articles, but read a teaser saying he was surprised they "got off".

Actually he was talking about the end of season coke binge

 

[winged1]

Reckon it's all gone, long ago.
When Danks moves to Spain and pens his "tell all" though...
Not that we could believe him or anything be done with that sort of info, but we'll know.

The highlights will be:

Tonya calls James "her bitch"
Tonya insanely jealous that James has better hair than her
James asked to be scrotally injected with monkey sperm...just because
James was not looking surprised at the judicial finding, due to having enough botox in his system to anaesthetise an elephant
Nobody knows what Bomber is on

 

[Football Pope]

The highlights will be:

Tonya calls James "her bitch"
Tonya insanely jealous that James has better hair than her
James asked to be scrotally injected with monkey sperm...just because
James was not looking surprised at the judicial finding, due to having enough botox in his system to anaesthetise an elephant
Nobody knows what Bomber is on

I laughed...of course that would be the "Red & Black" monkey

 

[Skoob]

It worries me that a quasi government organisation like ASADA can make unfounded allegations and use the hue and cry of the media without any tangible evidence to convict people. Stalinism, Nazism, McCarthyism at its best. The fellow that is its mouthpiece is a self seeking egomaniac who spouts the rhetoric that those ism's would be proud of.

 

[Kevvo]

It worries me that a quasi government organisation like ASADA can make unfounded allegations and use the hue and cry of the media without any tangible evidence to convict people. Stalinism, Nazism, McCarthyism at its best. The fellow that is its mouthpiece is a self seeking egomaniac who spouts the rhetoric that those ism's would be proud of.

Putting aside the arguable point here, you think maybe it is an overreach to compare the perpetrators of genocide to a statutory authority whose doping case prompted by an indisputably poorly governed supplements program returned an "insufficient evidence" verdict?

 

[maroon and blue]

Or make well founded allegations that were unable to be proven before a tribunal due to lack of evidence that any reasonable person would accept should have been in the possession of the club etc which the media happily ran with for their own purposes.

If ASADA was one of the ism's you mentioned then one Master Hird would have been up before a firing squad/sent to a camp/become a non-person a long long time ago now.

Comparing the ASADA guy's speech to Hitler's at Nuremberg ... I think one of them gets a few more demagoguery points than the other one.

Or make well founded allegations that were unable to be proven before a tribunal due to lack of evidence that any reasonable person would accept should have been in the possession of the club etc which the media happily ran with for their own purposes.

If ASADA was one of the ism's you mentioned then one Master Hird would have been up before a firing squad/sent to a camp/become a non-person a long long time ago now.

Comparing the ASADA guy's speech to Hitler's at Nuremberg ... I think one of them gets a few more demagoguery points than the other one.

Saying that ASADA is equivalent to Hitler is a figment of your imagination. I will say it clearly again, ASADA used propaganda as exquisitely as any of the organisations I mentioned and that troglodyte at their helm is still spewing unfounded allegations, like a bully boy who didn't get their way. The basic premise of English based democracy is your innocent until proven guilty. Irrespective of the circumstances.

 

[Hollow Knight]

The basic premise of English based democracy is your innocent until proven guilty. Irrespective of the circumstances.

I thought the basic premise of democracy was that people elect their government.

 

[matwt73]

I thought the basic premise of democracy was that people elect their government.

No you are thinking of Habeus Corpus.

Democracy is where the three arms of Government, Executive, Judicial, and Legislative are independent and not subject to influence each to the other.

Nb- this is harder to do without gifs of a black actor

 

[Viceregal]

Saying that ASADA is equivalent to Hitler is a figment of your imagination. I will say it clearly again, ASADA used propaganda as exquisitely as any of the organisations I mentioned and that troglodyte at their helm is still spewing unfounded allegations, like a bully boy who didn't get their way. The basic premise of English based democracy is your innocent until proven guilty. Irrespective of the circumstances.

It is true that I took your reference to the ism's to refer to their totality not specifically their use of the media and propaganda etc ... that being said if you wanted to look at the effective use of propaganda and misuse of public relations and revving up the masses etc I would have thought that would far better describe the way Essendon treated ASADA rather than vice versa ... and not just vs the last guy but the whole organisation...

As others have mentioned it is a base of English Jurisprudence ref the innocent until proven guilty however that is not the way it works in all cases ... or in all jurisdictions ... what is McDevvit (sp) saying at the moment that you are finding so offensive btw / that you are referring to as unfounded?

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I see with USN on board we now have our own supplements program

 

[maroon and blue]

I thought the basic premise of democracy was that people elect their government.

Not in your part of the world.

 

[maroon and blue]

It is true that I took your reference to the ism's to refer to their totality not specifically their use of the media and propaganda etc ... that being said if you wanted to look at the effective use of propaganda and misuse of public relations and revving up the masses etc I would have thought that would far better describe the way Essendon treated ASADA rather than vice versa ... and not just vs the last guy but the whole organisation...

As others have mentioned it is a base of English Jurisprudence ref the innocent until proven guilty however that is not the way it works in all cases ... or in all jurisdictions ... what is McDevvit (sp) saying at the moment that you are finding so offensive btw / that you are referring to as unfounded?

Ahh, some animals are more equal than others, McDevvit , a self seeking nutter in the mould of J. Edgar Hoover.

 

[Tairy Greene]

What's that got to do with anything?

Cram it, Hillsong.