The Bombers ASADA/WADA Saga

[Skoob]

The recreational drug dispute, again.
There is plenty of argument for legalisation, or at least decriminalisation, but for now they aren't legal. I think it reasonable that such a large, high profile organisation that relies so heavily the public faces of that business, has an illicit drugs policy.
When society's rules change, I'm sure we'll see a shift in those policies as well, so the "some drugs are okay" argument doesn't really stand up. It's irrelevant, and you'll just have to wait for the wider community to be more accepting before the AFL is.
Private lives can be private, but as we saw with Lewy Taylor having to front court, there is the potential for bad publicity or brand damage to come from "private life" of players. Cloke and Swann flashed their dicks in their own time as well, but is isn't good for the game.

 

[Davemonkey]

The recreational drug dispute, again.
Cloke and Swann flashed their dicks in their own time as well, but is isn't good for the game.

I think the AFL is considering a three strokes policy following that controversy.

Couldn't leave it alone. Sorry.

 

[Kevvo]

I think the AFL is considering a three strokes policy following that controversy.

Couldn't leave it alone. Sorry.

You'll go blind.

 

[Skoob]

I think the AFL is considering a three strokes policy following that controversy.

Couldn't leave it alone. Sorry.

I heard Cloke's had insufficient impact to be reported.

 

[ROBurBEAMrKEAYS]

Couldn't leave it alone. Sorry.

He couldn't either lol

 

[Davemonkey]

I heard Cloke's had insufficient impact to be reported.

I heard it started straight but veered off target as it approached the sticks.

We're still talking about football right?

 

[Football Pope]

. Cloke and Swann flashed their dicks in their own time as well, but is isn't good for the game.

The digitally enhanced debate again.....

 

[Jman78]

Hang on..... so the bombers are trying to clear names not on whether they took a banned substance but on a technicality of some sort? I hate to say it but public thinks they're cheats and that wont likely change.... AND they took a banned substance soooooooo

 

[joshhem]

Hang on..... so the bombers are trying to clear names not on whether they took a banned substance but on a technicality of some sort? I hate to say it but public thinks they're cheats and that wont likely change.... AND they took a banned substance soooooooo

Actually not quite I don't think. I believe that are not contesting the result, but contesting that the appeal was not lawful

 

[M Malice]

re the essendon appeal i am probably part of a very small minority. my opinion is that anyone has the right to follow all legal options that are open to them to the very end. that is the way our legal system is set up. any process followed by prosecuting authorities be they sporting tribunals or courts of law must follow due process and accepted procedures for the gathering and presenting of evidence. the essendon 34 should not have to take into account how this process looks to the general public or the length of time it is taking and the perceived damage to the AFL brand.
the other option is we go by media reports and the court of public opinion.

 

[lionbear]

I don't understand the appeal, they are going to sit most of the season out anyway, and are trying to get off on law.

Are they actually going to "clear" there name if they win? they are just getting off on a technicality.

Essendon are footing the bill I guess because of they get cleared they wont get sued for as much and they can get WADA to fit the bill.

But in my eyes, this course of action might clear them, but they will have a asterix next to their name.

 

[MacMum]

They don't seem to realise they are now tainted for life....a court ruling is not going to change that. Whoever is advising them is not a person dealing in reality.

This whole mess will ride along with Essendon for generations to come..

 

[Cousin Jed]

Actually not quite I don't think. I believe that are not contesting the result, but contesting that the appeal was not lawful

Well they already went down the "joint investigation was improper" route so it was the next logical step #whateverittakes

 

[Judge]

This might surprise a few, but there are some lawyers out there who are happy to take on any case, regardless of prospects, as long as they know they are going to get (well) paid.

Of course we're only talking about a percentage of lawyers who fall into this category, maybe .....99%.

 

[Lionheart182]

This might surprise a few, but there are some lawyers out there who are happy to take on any case, regardless of prospects, as long as they know they are going to get (well) paid.

Of course we're only talking about a percentage of lawyers who fall into this category, maybe .....99%.

Well you would know, 'Judge'.

 

[Hollow Knight]

re the essendon appeal i am probably part of a very small minority. my opinion is that anyone has the right to follow all legal options that are open to them to the very end. that is the way our legal system is set up. any process followed by prosecuting authorities be they sporting tribunals or courts of law must follow due process and accepted procedures for the gathering and presenting of evidence. the essendon 34 should not have to take into account how this process looks to the general public or the length of time it is taking and the perceived damage to the AFL brand.
the other option is we go by media reports and the court of public opinion.

Totally agree they are entitled to take any legal avenue available but perception also matters and I think they are simply losing more of what was already a dwindling amount of sympathisers. I think a lot of Essendon fans would just like it to be over so they can reboot fresh for 2017.

What is the expected time frame for this latest appeal?

 

[James North]

TheBrownDog - just heard on FSN that the time frame was 4-6 months.

 

[Hollow Knight]

TheBrownDog - just heard on FSN that the time frame was 4-6 months.

I wonder how the top up situation works if Essendon's best case scenario happens and they get their players cleared in July. "Thanks guys... cya later?"

 

[Tom14]

I have no experience in doping law, but what I find frustrating is the undertone to this that AFL is different to other sports. All WADA hearings are de novo (i.e a fresh hearing) and challenging that comes across as the AFL once again trying to be different. It's the same as the idiots (cough Paul Marsh) saying the AFL should withdraw from WADA entirely.

Not saying they don't or shouldn't have the right to appeal, but their actions make the game look insular and more domestic, which is a problem for me.

 

[Lionheart182]

I have no experience in doping law, but what I find frustrating is the undertone to this that AFL is different to other sports. All WADA hearings are de novo (i.e a fresh hearing) and challenging that comes across as the AFL once again trying to be different. It's the same as the idiots (cough Paul Marsh) saying the AFL should withdraw from WADA entirely.

Not saying they don't or shouldn't have the right to appeal, but their actions make the game look insular and more domestic, which is a problem for me.

Yeah it's strange. Their main argument seems to be that WADA should not have been allowed an appeal unless the inital AFL hearing was unjust or incorrect for whatever reason. But isn't that part of the code the AFL signed up for? I must be missing something.

 

[WA Lion]

Yeah it's strange. Their main argument seems to be that WADA should not have been allowed an appeal unless the inital AFL hearing was unjust or incorrect for whatever reason. But isn't that part of the code the AFL signed up for? I must be missing something.

They are arguing that CAS made an error in law. Something numerous Bombers fans have overlooked today is that the appeal is against the process, not the finding. The argument (rated by most as modest at very best) is that CAS made an error in how they interpreted or applied the law and that the players were denied a fair hearing. They are not appealing that they were found guilty, simply that how the guilty verdict was reached was incorrect.

Quite frankly they have got less than a 20% chance in being successful, but unless you are one of those 34 players, it is difficult to imagine how they must be feeling and how they reached this decision. I can only imagine they want to exhaust every avenue possible to clear their name

EDIT - it should also be noted that given the appeal is to a different court to CAS, then WADA could lodge an appeal if the players are successful.

Also, the absolute best case scenario for the players realistically is that they are successful, but that the case is then SENT BACK TO CAS again and the evidence re-evaluated under the correct interpretation of law, where they would probably be found guilty again.

At least that is my understanding of the Swiss Federal courts system!

 

[MacMum]

I have no experience in doping law, but what I find frustrating is the undertone to this that AFL is different to other sports. All WADA hearings are de novo (i.e a fresh hearing) and challenging that comes across as the AFL once again trying to be different. It's the same as the idiots (cough Paul Marsh) saying the AFL should withdraw from WADA entirely.

Not saying they don't or shouldn't have the right to appeal, but their actions make the game look insular and more domestic, which is a problem for me.

It makes us look like a country of sports fanatics who are quick to condemn other codes/overseas athletes etc.....but when it is us, oh no, we are innocent, there are reasons, so I'm innocent........and not accepting of the umpires decision.

 

[Lionheart182]

They are arguing that CAS made an error in law. Something numerous Bombers fans have overlooked today is that the appeal is against the process, not the finding. The argument (rated by most as modest at very best) is that CAS made an error in how they interpreted or applied the law and that the players were denied a fair hearing. They are not appealing that they were found guilty, simply that how the guilty verdict was reached was incorrect.

Quite frankly they have got less than a 20% chance in being successful, but unless you are one of those 34 players, it is difficult to imagine how they must be feeling and how they reached this decision. I can only imagine they want to exhaust every avenue possible to clear their name

EDIT - it should also be noted that given the appeal is to a different court to CAS, then WADA could lodge an appeal if the players are successful.

Also, the absolute best case scenario for the players realistically is that they are successful, but that the case is then SENT BACK TO CAS again and the evidence re-evaluated under the correct interpretation of law, where they would probably be found guilty again.

At least that is my understanding of the Swiss Federal courts system!

In addition (have been reading up) there appears to have been a change to the WADA code whilst the case was still going which allowed WADA an appeal of the finding and a brand new trial which was different to the old code. I suppose the argument is because the case was still running WADA should not benefit from this change?

 

[WA Lion]

That is EXACTLY what i would be arguing. Goalposts changed

 

[Hollow Knight]

In addition (have been reading up) there appears to have been a change to the WADA code whilst the case was still going which allowed WADA an appeal of the finding and a brand new trial which was different to the old code. I suppose the argument is because the case was still running WADA should not benefit from this change?

Geez, even if that comes off that is a very small victory.

Their season will be wiped out regardless. It will eliminate the guilty verdict on a technicality only and in the minds of everyone they will still be the team who were found guilty in a CAS trial of doping.

The only real winners will be the lawyers cashing in and possibly Jobe Watson salvaging his Brownlow.

How much is it going to cost to translate the case and all supporting evidence into French too!