The Burqa Can Be Banned

[Gough]

ASIO has upgraded Australia's terror alert to high in response to the rise in Islamic fundamentalism and the disturbing presence of "Australians" fighting with jihadists in Iraq. There's also been additional domestic incidents resulting in arrests, of suspects allegedly planning public beheadings and posting it on the internet. There was also a very serious incident in Victoria where a crazed would be jihadist tried to murder two policemen and was subsequently killed. This issue was raised by the PUP earlier this week.

Now... do you have an opinion on the burqa?

Not especially no, but I do believe in religous freedom and if that means women wear burqas so be it. I'm not much of a fan of a fan of Islamic subjugation of women, but I also I think we are going massively over the top on something that is so infinitesimal and will affect so few members of the population that the only thing that is really being covered up is the failings of this government.

 

[Mofra]

Do you think the government directed ASIO to lift the terror alert in Australia?
Was there or was there not - terror raids resulting in arrests?
Was there a serious incident last week or not?
Is it appropriate to discuss face coverings if only in a security context?

It's a manufactured Tampa, and a transparent one at that.
"Terror raids" - even the language used is inflammatory, and again there will be thousands like yourself who take the bait.

The budget backdown has somewhat been hidden from view - I'd say, partially, mission accomplished.

 

[Xsess]

It's a manufactured Tampa, and a transparent one at that.
"Terror raids" - even the language used is inflammatory, and again there will be thousands like yourself who take the bait.

The budget backdown has somewhat been hidden from view - I'd say, partially, mission accomplished.

I see.... Abbotts is engaged in conspiracy to hide the budget. Its genius really, the way he's set the whole thing up. Sending pretend jihadists to a pretend jihad organisation, getting ASIO, AFP, ADF, multiple police forces the media (except for the Abbott Bashing Corporation) to fabricate the issue, not to mention how he's managed to get almost every country on the globe, to do the same thing...

 

[Mofra]

I see.... Abbotts is engaged in conspiracy to hide the budget. Its genius really, the way he's set the whole thing up. Sending pretend jihadists to a pretend jihad organisation, getting ASIO, AFP, ADF, multiple police forces the media (except for the Abbott Bashing Corporation) to fabricate the issue, not to mention how he's managed to get almost every country on the globe, to do the same thing...

A rant that any nonsensical talk-back radio caller would be proud of, all the while demonstrating the dog-whistle mentality that the far-right jump at unquestioningly.

My point proven. Thank you

 

[mottrain]

Not especially no, but I do believe in religous freedom and if that means women wear burqas so be it. I'm not much of a fan of a fan of Islamic subjugation of women, but I also I think we are going massively over the top on something that is so infinitesimal and will affect so few members of the population that the only thing that is really being covered up is the failings of this government.

So then you agree with Muslims making their views on homosexuality known then? If you are for religious freedom then why are you not for speech freedom?

 

[Gough]

I've got no truck with anyone engaging in a bit of verbal NTTAWWTta bashing, I don't agree with it, but I defend their right to say it. I've never once reported any of your homophobic rants for example.
It's also worth noting that like the many other religous organisations, Islam is moving (albeit fairly slowly) toward acceptance of gay people.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

I see.... Abbotts is engaged in conspiracy to hide the budget. Its genius really, the way he's set the whole thing up. Sending pretend jihadists to a pretend jihad organisation, getting ASIO, AFP, ADF, multiple police forces the media (except for the Abbott Bashing Corporation) to fabricate the issue, not to mention how he's managed to get almost every country on the globe, to do the same thing...

No it's not. It's a tactic as old as Methuselah

 

[Maggie5]

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...earers-from-parliaments-open-public-galleries

Anyone wearing “facial coverings” who wants to enter the galleries of federal parliament will be made to sit in a separate shielded section, according to new rules announced on Thursday.

I hope that this includes beards.

 

[Mofra]

It's also worth noting that like the many other religous organisations, Islam is moving (albeit fairly slowly) toward acceptance of gay people.

Really?
For mine predominately Islamic nations seem positively archaic in that regard. We know how restrictive the House of Saud is, but even Malaysia which is quite an open and friendly society have proposed draconian laws in recent memory.

 

[Xsess]

Not especially no, but I do believe in religous freedom and if that means women wear burqas so be it. I'm not much of a fan of a fan of Islamic subjugation of women, but I also I think we are going massively over the top on something that is so infinitesimal and will affect so few members of the population that the only thing that is really being covered up is the failings of this government.

Good post until your hatred of Abbott caused you to divert. From what I can tell you basically agree with me, your uncomfortable with what the burka represents with respect to the persecution of women but you dont think it should be a banned. We seem to only differ with respect to the security aspect.

 

[Gough]

Really?
For mine predominately Islamic nations seem positively archaic in that regard. We know how restrictive the House of Saud is, but even Malaysia which is quite an open and friendly society have proposed draconian laws in recent memory.

Some South African mosques are slowly modernising, and I think I read of some in England that are becoming more inclusive. I guess that in a more liberal society tolerance is more forthcoming.

 

[Xsess]

A rant that any nonsensical talk-back radio caller would be proud of, all the while demonstrating the dog-whistle mentality that the far-right jump at unquestioningly.

My point proven. Thank you

You've just responded with a lefty cliche. Diversion. Use of slogan/smear. Straight refusal to counter any of the facts presented. Self appointment of intellectual and moral superiority.

 

[Gough]

You've just responded with a lefty cliche. Diversion. Use of slogan/smear. Refusal to counter any of the facts presented. Self appointment of intellectual and moral superiority.

But it's true, you present as the archetypal Ray Hadley/Alan Jones listener.

 

[Xsess]

Well you’ve got to hand it to Tony Abbott and his fiendish ability to whip up smokescreens everywhere from Syria to the streets of Sydney.

 

[Xsess]

But it's true, you present as the archetypal Ray Hadley/Alan Jones listener.

For calling out the terrorism conspiracy to hide the budget..? Gotta love the left after 6 years of waste and financial mismanagement are now trying to blame Abbott and Hockey for the state the budget is in. Laughable.

 

[Mofra]

You've just responded with a lefty cliche. Diversion. Use of slogan/smear. Refusal to counter any of the facts presented. Self appointment of intellectual and moral superiority.

Then give me something - anything - that resembles a point rather than a rant.

I mean this:

I see.... Abbotts is engaged in conspiracy to hide the budget. Its genius really, the way he's set the whole thing up. Sending pretend jihadists to a pretend jihad organisation, getting ASIO, AFP, ADF, multiple police forces the media (except for the Abbott Bashing Corporation) to fabricate the issue, not to mention how he's managed to get almost every country on the globe, to do the same thing...

...is pure parody of the hysterical table-thumping right, right down to the sloganism of "Abbott Bashing Corporation", the complete ignorance of political diversionary tactics, and the convolution of a minor issue to feed into an emotional response to bigotry.

Working Dog productions would struggle to script something more stereotypical.

Now, take a deep breath: why has a simple piece of clothing got you so scared?

 

[red+black]

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...t-house-public-galleries-20141002-10p8pl.html

"Race discrimination commissioner Tim Soutphommasane told Fairfax Media the ruling would see Muslim women treated differently to non-Muslim women."

Not sure that's a good argument to make. If muslim women do not wish to be identifiable, then they are saying that they wish to be treated differently to non-muslim women. I think the Parliament solution is a good one. They are not banned from the House and they do not have to show their face.

 

[Xsess]

Now, take a deep breath: why has a simple piece of clothing got you so scared?

I admit it. That post you quoted was me parodying your Blind Abbott Hatred. Of course this is a peripheral issue!! It was raised by the PUP, which attracted some general commentary. Perhaps the PM's shouldn't have commented at all but he did. Very reasonable comments they were, quite similar to the views of many reasonable Australian's (including Goughs). Essentially Prime Minister Abbott is uncomfortable with the wearing of it (due to what it represents re-persecution of women). He doesnt want it banned, but he wants restictions in secure locations (ie parliament) for security reasons just like everyone else in the country. Benign comments that have resulted in a wild but predictable lefty backlash, ironically giving the issue the prominance you accuse Abbott of! In that context, your conspiracy theory is gold.

 

[Gough]

I admit it. That post you quoted was me parodying your Blind Abbott hatred. Of course this is a peripheral issue!! It was raised by the PUP, which attracted some general commentary. Perhaps the PM's shouldn't have commented at all but he did. Very reasonable comments they were, quite similar to the views of many reasonable Australian's (including Goughs). He's uncomfortable with the wearing of it (due to what it represents re-persecution of women). Doesnt want it banned, but he wants restictions in secure locations (ie parliament) for security reasons just like everyone else in the country. Benign comments that have resulted in a wild but predictable lefty backlash, that is giving the issue prominance! In that context, your conspiracy theory is gold.

Please show me where I have said this, I also never said I was uncomfortable with Islamic women wearing it. Please don't misrepresent me in any way lest, it could be implied I remotely agree with your sentiments.

 

[Mofra]

I admit it. That post you quoted was me parodying your Blind Abbott hatred.

You convoluted the wearing of the hijab wider concepts of executing a few search warrants (oh sorry, "terror raids") then tried to convolute the issue as a simplistic "left vs right" issue without understanding that personal freedoms & liberties are, generally, also promoted by libertarians that are, nominally, regarded as being right of centre.

But please, continue to amuse us with your ability to answer every dog-whistle with a "leftys are bad, m'kay" type response.

 

[Mofra]

Some South African mosques are slowly modernising, and I think I read of some in England that are becoming more inclusive. I guess that in a more liberal society tolerance is more forthcoming.

It does seem to be a slow grind - although on balance, most commonwealth countries seem to adding restrictions and removing personal liberties (especially African nations) so as a Commonwealth nation we're hardly in a position to throw stones on the issue.

 

[Jiska]

Simple. I'm not a huge fan of the burka but it definately shouldn't be banned, unless a wearer wants to enter a Bank, an airport, any Parliament House or other places that require safety checks, then they should be required to meet the same requirements ALL Australians have to meet. Such as no balaclava’s or helmets.

Ok, so we have exactly the same view and agree completely. Why then are we going back and forth?

Not quite sure where yours comments re: oppressing women came from..

 

[Malifice]

I wish it wasn't worn but respect the right of people to wear it. In secure buildings no attire should be worn which obscures identity or poses a security threat, including burquas.

Agree.

Now watch the Lefties foam at the mouth as they try to distort what Abbott said and screech racism and dog whistling. Grab the popcorn.

You dont need the Leftie labels mate.

 

[Xsess]

Ok, so we have exactly the same view and agree completely. Why then are we going back and forth?

We aren't and I dont know why there's any backwards or forwards over this issue. There's always middle ground. It's great example though - the likes of you and I (and Mal) can come together on issues when its clear we have quite different political views. Not everything needs to be controversal.

 

[Jiska]

We aren't and I dont know why there's any backwards or forwards over this issue. There's always middle ground. It's great example though - the likes of you and I (and Mal) can come together on issues when its clear we have quite different political views. Not everything needs to be controversal.

You'd be interested to know that I've voted for both of the major political parties at different times. Even though my views are clearly left of centre, that doesn't mean I agree with everything the Labor Party does, or the direction they are headed at times. I couldn't bring myself to vote for either of the majors at the last Federal Election; Gillard was too far left for me and Abbot was too far right. Had Malcolm still been the leader of the Liberal Party..............