Science/Environment The Carbon Debate, pt III

[Power Raid]

Well thats a reassuring motherhood & apple pie statement. I also believe we should love each other & shouldnt have war. The problem is how do we get their. This Gument is intent on destroying the very method of reducing pollution.

So what value is your belief system then? Is it Scientific, of just a warm fuzzy feeling thing?

It is about getting things done. As you know understand there are two simple drivers being fear and success.

Those that don't are motivated by fear and those that do are motivated by success.

Why would you use fear and negativity to get something done. All you end up with is mobilising the loonies and those that don't.

But use positivity and motivate the doers, then you get results.

So I guess it is about understanding people, finance and project development.

 

[madmug]

It is about getting things done. As you know understand there are two simple drivers being fear and success.

Those that don't are motivated by fear and those that do are motivated by success.

Why would you use fear and negativity to get something done. All you end up with is mobilising the loonies and those that don't.

But use positivity and motivate the doers, then you get results.

So I guess it is about understanding people, finance and project development.

So you discount greed, short term benefit & self interest then?
How is it a positive thing to dismantle investment in renewable energy sources?. How will the rest of the world react when they move more & more to these newer technologies to reduce pollution & we still insist on using brown coal in 50 year old, inefficient power stations?
Self interest will only get us so far. Not investing will give some of us short term 'benefits'. Where is the bloody future for us this Gument?

The answer cannot continue to be 1950. We need to progress.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Why would you use fear and negativity to get something done. All you end up with is mobilising the loonies and those that don't.

taxation/breaks is a well-established, proven policy tool for altering behaviour. I don't know why you're ignoring this in favour of silly words like "negativity".

 

[Mningasimisonda]

I can't answer for Lebbo but I too sit in the camp that we know CO2 is a greenhouse gas but I don't believe we fully understand its effect given the other variables (a minor issue for me) but I truly don't believe warming is as big an issue as made out to be (thus my disparaging comments re alarmists and watermelons).

This is probably the media's fault or our fault for letting our country have a stupid and not so independent media.

The majority of articles on the topic aren't well considered and well communicated pieces about the problems and possible solutions.

Instead of what essentially should be updates on scientic ways to solve the problem or informative science journalism on the science of the problem, we get a bunch of opinion pieces by advocates, economists and political leaders stating their points of view about the science, and most of them seem to share the same cluelessness because the media never actually communicated the science clearly to them in the first place (or they read some whacked out publications on the topic written by other advocates, economists or politicians).

 

[Power Raid]

This is probably the media's fault or our fault for letting our country have a stupid and not so independent media.

The majority of articles on the topic aren't well considered and well communicated pieces about the problems and possible solutions.

Instead of what essentially should be updates on scientic ways to solve the problem or informative science journalism on the science of the problem, we get a bunch of opinion pieces by advocates, economists and political leaders stating their points of view about the science, and most of them seem to share the same cluelessness because the media never actually communicated the science clearly to them in the first place (or they read some whacked out publications on the topic written by other advocates, economists or politicians).

agree

unfortunately the quality of the media, the desperation of politicians wanting relevance, the dangerous fringe and lobby groups have hijacked the issue.

fortunately we have come a long way in a short time and with 20 years, we will have achieved amazing things in power generation, transport, agriculture and other important industries.

 

[Power Raid]

So you discount greed, short term benefit & self interest then?
How is it a positive thing to dismantle investment in renewable energy sources?. How will the rest of the world react when they move more & more to these newer technologies to reduce pollution & we still insist on using brown coal in 50 year old, inefficient power stations?
Self interest will only get us so far. Not investing will give some of us short term 'benefits'. Where is the bloody future for us this Gument?

The answer cannot continue to be 1950. We need to progress.

That's exactly what we should be avoiding but there are some that go from government handout to handout and have no intention of building real value or real solutions.

Sure we need to progress and the journey is easy and clear but requires hard work and investment rather than lobbying and arm waving. We also need to have a global perspective as well as local solutions which helps focus our energies.

 

[Power Raid]

taxation/breaks is a well-established, proven policy tool for altering behaviour. I don't know why you're ignoring this in favour of silly words like "negativity".

would you reach into your pocket or take on business risk because of punitive policy, negativity and uncertainty or would you be energised by aspiration, success and reward?

 

[Power Raid]

taxation/breaks is a well-established, proven policy tool for altering behaviour. I don't know why you're ignoring this in favour of silly words like "negativity".

a another way to look at the issue is a women stands in front of the mirror and she can ask herself:

a) am I fat; or
b) how can I get fitter, stronger, healthier and lose weight

it is a very different mindset and doers think like the latter. so why not approach the problem to resonate with the people who will get the job done.

 

[Long Live HFC]

would you reach into your pocket or take on business risk because of punitive policy, negativity and uncertainty or would you be energised by aspiration, success and reward?

oh come on, what kind of nonsense question is that?

i would "reach into my pocket" or "take on risk" based on what i felt would give me the best results.

 

[Power Raid]

oh come on, what kind of nonsense question is that?

i would "reach into my pocket" or "take on risk" based on what i felt would give me the best results.

So do you take on the risk?

 

[Power Raid]

oh come on, what kind of nonsense question is that?

i would "reach into my pocket" or "take on risk" based on what i felt would give me the best results.

So do you take on the risk?

 

[Long Live HFC]

a another way to look at the issue is a women stands in front of the mirror and she can ask herself:

a) am I fat; or
b) how can I get fitter, stronger, healthier and lose weight

it is a very different mindset and doers think like the latter. so why not approach the problem to resonate with the people who will get the job done.

this is just romantic waffle.

increasing the price of something lowers its demand. in this case it also makes alternatives relatively cheaper, and encourages improved efficiencies. the study i already linked to showed a $6 return for every $1 spent on efficiency increases.

romantic waffle doesn't compete with that.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

AT THE MOMENT!

Are you suggesting that batteries will cease to be an expensive part of an electric car, or are you suggesting that charging can be reduced by a huge amount.

I'd consider that incremental improvements will take place.

 

[Long Live HFC]

So do you take on the risk?

you need to be specific. i am not sure what you're asking.

 

[Power Raid]

you need to be specific. i am not sure what you're asking.

Do you, or did you, take on business risk related to the opportunities that negative policies created?

 

[Long Live HFC]

Do you, or did you, take on business risk related to the opportunities that negative policies created?

sorry, i don't agree with the premise of the question. i'm not a fan of your use of 'negative'. regardless, yes i have taken on financial risk based upon taxation considerations. but i've also done so for fun too. if i had the available capital i might invest in renewable energies if i saw a financial benefit there.

but even if i took no risk at all, so what? i expect others to take these risks and me just to consume the outcomes, just like i do for 99% of all the other things in life. yay capitalism.

 

[Power Raid]

sorry, i don't agree with the premise of the question. i'm not a fan of your use of 'negative'. regardless, yes i have taken on financial risk based upon taxation considerations. but i've also done so for fun too. if i had the available capital i might invest in renewable energies if i saw a financial benefit there.

but even if i took no risk at all, so what? i expect others to take these risks and me just to consume the outcomes, just like i do for 99% of all the other things in life. yay capitalism.

the premise of the question goes down to the crux of the issue.

the negative policies weren't designed to transform the nation, rather they were designed to win votes. unfortunately the cost of that is slower progress of positive reforms.

 

[Ripper]

the premise of the question goes down to the crux of the issue.

the negative policies weren't designed to transform the nation, rather they were designed to win votes. unfortunately the cost of that is slower progress of positive reforms.

There are 3 types of people in this word PR.

People that make things happen
People that watch things happen
People that say "What happened?"

HFC is clearly somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd group.

 

[Long Live HFC]

There are 3 types of people in this word PR.

People that make things happen
People that watch things happen
People that say "What happened?"

HFC is clearly somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd group.

lol, you couldn't design a policy to clean the s**t out of your own undies, let alone critique climate change mitigation strategies.

 

[Power Raid]

lol, you couldn't design a policy to clean the s**t out of your own undies, let alone critique climate change mitigation strategies.

so what would be your negative policy to make a positive change in the undies?

 

[Ripper]

lol, you couldn't design a policy to clean the s**t out of your own undies, let alone critique climate change mitigation strategies.

Rofl.

 

[Windhover]

I can't answer for Lebbo but I too sit in the camp that we know CO2 is a greenhouse gas but I don't believe we fully understand its effect given the other variables (a minor issue for me) but I truly don't believe warming is as big an issue as made out to be (thus my disparaging comments re alarmists and watermelons).

With the US and China reaching an agreement on carbon reduction targets there sure are a whole lot more people for you to make disparaging comments about. Who wud of thunk the USA wood be commie greens? I guess that is what comes of electing (twice) a black president.

Or, to quote a line from Bob Dylan "Something is happening but you don't know what it is, do you PR"?

 

[Partridge]

With the US and China reaching an agreement on carbon reduction targets there sure are a whole lot more people for you to make disparaging comments about. Who wud of thunk the USA wood be commie greens? I guess that is what comes of electing (twice) a black president.

Or, to quote a line from Bob Dylan "Something is happening but you don't know what it is, do you PR"?

As soon as you see lunatics like McConnell frothing at the mouth, you realise some progress must be being made.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Simple argument is simple. Consensus argument is only put about by people on kool aid.



How so? How did the EU system go? Where was the international system that Australia was going to hook in to?

Amusing that you accuse others of hollow talking points but once again you have absolutely nothing to back up your claims.



No they don't.

Why is it that those who so fervently believe in global warming have so little understanding of economics and finance?

No major method of power generation has been the product of industry only. All have relied on significant public investment or subsidy.

The entire nuclear industry is predicated on public money and research.

 

[Play by Numbers]

We are already miles behind, with China already spending huge amounts of electric vehicle research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_industry_in_China
We have nothing to offer in the way of expertise in this field.

Really?

http://www.sciencealert.com/new-technology-could-power-battery-free-electric-cars-within-five-years