2nds The Casey Thread - End of a terrible season

[Demon 16]

I'd probably take it myself. Go and play in the VFL full time and try to impress an AFL club from there (while being fully paid), which is pretty much what you'd be doing any way on the Melbourne list. I guess you don't have the benefit of AFL level training though.

I'd try to negotiate a rookie spot maybe.

But I guess if they start playing in the development league, tell him he's not wanted around the place, and offer him an extra $50k on top of next years salary to walk, he would need to consider it.

 

[Cannon82]

I'd try to negotiate a rookie spot maybe.

But I guess if they start playing in the development league, tell him he's not wanted around the place, and offer him an extra $50k on top of next years salary to walk, he would need to consider it.

Don't need to offer him anything, just cancel the contract and pay out the remaining value. Doesn't happen often so I don't know how it works, but just because we're paying him, I don't think we'd be obliged to include him in our playing list? It'd be pretty daft paying 40 odd blokes to play footy and another 5 or so not to, but we could sack a few contracted guys and not miss them at all.

 

[Demon 16]

Don't need to offer him anything, just cancel the contract and pay out the remaining value. Doesn't happen often so I don't know how it works, but just because we're paying him, I don't think we'd be obliged to include him in our playing list? It'd be pretty daft paying 40 odd blokes to play footy and another 5 or so not to, but we could sack a few contracted guys and not miss them at all.

My understanding is that if a player has a contract in place (perhaps it depends on the detail?) - he can enforce it.

If he knows he's cooked, and the club offers a 'payout sum' on top of next years salary - he may prefer to take the money and leave.

Perhaps someone could clear this up for us?

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

My understanding is that if a player has a contract in place (perhaps it depends on the detail?) - he can enforce it.

If he knows he's cooked, and the club offers a 'payout sum' on top of next years salary - he may prefer to take the money and leave.

Perhaps someone could clear this up for us?

If the player is contracted the club can't just get rid of him, that's for sure - they can trade him or come to a mutually agreed upon termination (possibly less or more money than next years contract).

They can terminate the contract without the player agreeing to terms if the player is happy to receive the full contract payment I think.

 

[Cannon82]

They can terminate the contract without the player agreeing to terms if the player is happy to receive the full contract payment I think.

Yes. That's all a contract is - payment for services. Can sack a guy without recourse if you pay him the full value of the contract.

 

[Benwah83]

Yes. That's all a contract is - payment for services. Can sack a guy without recourse if you pay him the full value of the contract.

Re. Evans (and Nicho):

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Yes. That's all a contract is - payment for services. Can sack a guy without recourse if you pay him the full value of the contract.

Player has to agree with it though. If your boss fires you when you aren't actually doing anything wrong that's within your ability (disciplinary, deliberate incompetence, etc) he'd get sued, even if he does pay you out. Pretty hard to say an AFL player's position is redundant. AFLPA would have a field day.

 

[Topkent]

Player has to agree with it though. If your boss fires you when you aren't actually doing anything wrong that's within your ability (disciplinary, deliberate incompetence, etc) he'd get sued, even if he does pay you out. Pretty hard to say an AFL player's position is redundant. AFLPA would have a field day.

Yeah why would you want to stay if your going to be paid out
Instead of being stuck at Casey for a year you can go search out a contract somewhere else ( Yarrawonga)

 

[Cannon82]

Player has to agree with it though. If your boss fires you when you aren't actually doing anything wrong that's within your ability (disciplinary, deliberate incompetence, etc) he'd get sued, even if he does pay you out. Pretty hard to say an AFL player's position is redundant. AFLPA would have a field day.

Not to my understanding. You're not entitled to a job for life. It all depends on the clauses in your contract, EBA, etc, ie most people have a 4 week termination notice period. If you're a high flyer, it might be 3 or 6 months with a package. Footballers wouldn't have any early termination, otherwise there wouldn't be much point signing a contract for more than a year.

Your employer can terminate your employment at any time. If there are extenuating circumstances like a person gets fired when they've filed a harassment suit or something, that'd be grounds to sue for wrongful termination. I'm not a lawyer though, so I won't pick apart that can of beans. Footballers get paid to train and play for the club, but they're not guaranteed to play. If Evans is contracted to 2015, he can play 0 or 25 games in that time, but will get paid the same regardless (or extra with performance clauses, but won't get them if you're not playing AFL). Evans has played 16 games in 4 seasons... best of luck suing for wrongful redundancy because you're not good at what you're being paid to do. Suing your soon to be former club would also be a great way of announcing your retirement from the AFL because no one else is going to go near you.

Now, if we wanted to pay him less than the value of his contract, we could sit down with him and thrash out a deal. He might be entitled to $250k for next season, but we could ask him to take $100k right now and give him the freedom to pursue other options. Due to the rigid drafting and recruiting periods and the fact that you'll only get work in Australia and if you're getting paid out you're most likely not very good, I've no idea why any AFL player would take less than the full value of their contract. Happens quite a bit in football though - I remember Winny Bogarde at Chelsea got himself a 40k pound a week contract and spent the last few years training with the kids because he wouldn't accept a reduced termination package. They didn't pay out his contract because otherwise he'd have pocketed a massive lump sum and been able to continue his career elsewhere, so it was a fairly spiteful little dance. You do often see a club and player "mutually" decide to terminate a contract though so the player can pursue fresh opportunities at other clubs and the club saves a bit of cash.

 

[Cannon82]

(Yarrawonga)

Albury is where the big money is at, I think. Yarra have Fev, Steve McKee, Pettifer and a few other guns, but Albury go nuts on the recruiting I think. Silly, silly sums of money.

 

[Topkent]

Albury is where the big money is at, I think. Yarra have Fev, Steve McKee, Pettifer and a few other guns, but Albury go nuts on the recruiting I think. Silly, silly sums of money.

It is great for country footy though, especially watching Fev hip and shoulder a bloke into next year and then punch on with someone last week

 

[Cannon82]

It is great for country footy though, especially watching Fev hip and shoulder a bloke into next year and then punch on with someone last week

Don't think its sustainable. Albury are regularly winning games by 200 points. I'm not a massive fan of salary caps and what not, but the difference in standard across the competition is ridiculous. It's even worse in the O&K.

 

[Topkent]

Don't think its sustainable. Albury are regularly winning games by 200 points. I'm not a massive fan of salary caps and what not, but the difference in standard across the competition is ridiculous. It's even worse in the O&K.

Oh im not across whats going on up and around there, why would you even wanna play games when there is a 200 point difference
When you have towns who are paying players and others who are struggling to find them its always going to happen

 

[Cannon82]

O&M is a professional league - even ordinary blokes in the magoos are getting paid $50 a game. O&K I don't know, but I've seen a few 300 odd point margins there. Don't know how you'd find blokes to turn up every week for that.

 

[Dory_77]

Not to my understanding. You're not entitled to a job for life. It all depends on the clauses in your contract, EBA, etc, ie most people have a 4 week termination notice period. If you're a high flyer, it might be 3 or 6 months with a package. Footballers wouldn't have any early termination, otherwise there wouldn't be much point signing a contract for more than a year.

Your employer can terminate your employment at any time. If there are extenuating circumstances like a person gets fired when they've filed a harassment suit or something, that'd be grounds to sue for wrongful termination. I'm not a lawyer though, so I won't pick apart that can of beans. Footballers get paid to train and play for the club, but they're not guaranteed to play. If Evans is contracted to 2015, he can play 0 or 25 games in that time, but will get paid the same regardless (or extra with performance clauses, but won't get them if you're not playing AFL). Evans has played 16 games in 4 seasons... best of luck suing for wrongful redundancy because you're not good at what you're being paid to do. Suing your soon to be former club would also be a great way of announcing your retirement from the AFL because no one else is going to go near you.

Now, if we wanted to pay him less than the value of his contract, we could sit down with him and thrash out a deal. He might be entitled to $250k for next season, but we could ask him to take $100k right now and give him the freedom to pursue other options. Due to the rigid drafting and recruiting periods and the fact that you'll only get work in Australia and if you're getting paid out you're most likely not very good, I've no idea why any AFL player would take less than the full value of their contract. Happens quite a bit in football though - I remember Winny Bogarde at Chelsea got himself a 40k pound a week contract and spent the last few years training with the kids because he wouldn't accept a reduced termination package. They didn't pay out his contract because otherwise he'd have pocketed a massive lump sum and been able to continue his career elsewhere, so it was a fairly spiteful little dance. You do often see a club and player "mutually" decide to terminate a contract though so the player can pursue fresh opportunities at other clubs and the club saves a bit of cash.

One party can't end a contract outside of the terms in it or outside its timeframe. I.e. we'd either have to let it run its course next year or use some early termination clause in it to let him go. If there is a mutual agreement to end it from both parties then yes we'd be able to end it and let him (and Nicho et al) go (as far as I know from 2 weeks of IR law study).

 

[Topkent]

One party can't end a contract outside of the terms in it or outside its timeframe. I.e. we'd either have to let it run its course next year or use some early termination clause in it to let him go. If there is a mutual agreement to end it from both parties then yes we'd be able to end it and let him (and Nicho et al) go (as far as I know from 2 weeks of IR law study).

Yeah but as he said do you think Nicho would be dumb enough to try and take us on in court thus losing any chance of ever playing AFL again

 

[Dory_77]

Yeah but as he said do you think Nicho would be dumb enough to try and take us on in court thus losing any chance of ever playing AFL again

If we just tore up his contract in front of him? Yes, and I don't see how taking a club to court for not properly honoring a contract really harms his future in the AFL anyways. Also he'd probably realise by now that he's unlikely to get another AFL gig and will want the damages pay out.

 

[Topkent]

If we just tore up his contract in front of him? Yes, and I don't see how taking a club to court for not properly honoring a contract really harms his future in the AFL anyways. Also he'd probably realise by now that he's unlikely to get another AFL gig and will want the damages pay out.

If we sat him down and said mate, Your lucky to even be on the list this year and you wont be getting a game next year, If we pay out your contract in full would you be willing to terminate it as of the end of the season he would have to consider it, Whats the point of being trapped at Casey when he could atleast upgrade to a better VFL side

 

[Demon 16]

To get rid of these guys, we would basically need to pay them next years salary, plus an inducement to obtain their agreement.

It would need to be a pretty sizeable inducement, as an AFL footballer would most probably want to back himself to reinvigorate his form, and continue the professional footballing lifestyle/environment for another year.

It would all be included in next years salary cap.

 

[MAXIMUM GRUNDAGE]

Not to my understanding. You're not entitled to a job for life. It all depends on the clauses in your contract, EBA, etc, ie most people have a 4 week termination notice period. If you're a high flyer, it might be 3 or 6 months with a package. Footballers wouldn't have any early termination, otherwise there wouldn't be much point signing a contract for more than a year.

In extreme cases, footballers can be subject to early termination of their contract. Jason Gram and Josh Bootsma for example.

 

[Demon 16]

In extreme cases, footballers can be subject to early termination of their contract. Jason Gram and Josh Bootsma for example.

I'm pretty sure we tried it on with Nathan Carroll, but we couldn't get it over the line.

 

[Dory_77]

If we sat him down and said mate, Your lucky to even be on the list this year and you wont be getting a game next year, If we pay out your contract in full would you be willing to terminate it as of the end of the season he would have to consider it, Whats the point of being trapped at Casey when he could atleast upgrade to a better VFL side

If the club negotiated with him like that it should be fine provided both parties agree in the end. If we straight up said you're gone, piss off he'd be able to take us to court.

 

[Cannon82]

One party can't end a contract outside of the terms in it or outside its timeframe. I.e. we'd either have to let it run its course next year or use some early termination clause in it to let him go. If there is a mutual agreement to end it from both parties then yes we'd be able to end it and let him (and Nicho et al) go (as far as I know from 2 weeks of IR law study).

If it's in his contract that he's one of the Melbourne AFL listed players, he'd have a bit of leverage for a payoff or to stay at the club as he's entitled to a list spot. If not, offer him the money or send him to train with the VFL club. It really depends what fine print gets shuffled into contracts. Yes, they're not on the same terms and conditions as us rank and file drones but I doubt that they're that much of a protected species. Really, if you're told you have no future at a club and get offered a pay off, someone like Evans would be better to take the money and pursue a rookie spot at West Coast or something. They seem to like our WA castoffs. Nicho might take the money and go back to chasing and barking at cars.

 

[Cannon82]

In extreme cases, footballers can be subject to early termination of their contract. Jason Gram and Josh Bootsma for example.

Yeah, breached ethical clauses etc and the yada yada that is part and parcel of being a "role model" and public figure. Daniel Connors is another. Retiring (ie Mitch Clark) is also just another way of mutually ending a contract, so these things aren't engraved in stone and enforced on pain of death.

 

[Supermercado]

For anybody who's interested the AFL player rules are here http://old.aflpa.com.au/images/uploads/AFL_Rules_-_October_2013_CURRENT.pdf

Last year I found something in there that said you could delist contracted players as long as there's enough room in your salary cap that season (i.e 2014 if it's after this year) to cover the payouts. Can't find it now, but I'm sure it's in there somewhere.