Abbott Leadership challenge - "Et tu, Turnbull?" - 14/9/15

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Under Abbott's irresponsible and immature reign as Liberal leader, Coalition policy has been consistently about politics and spin above everything else. The G20 has neatly highlighted just how short-sighted the current leadership team is.

One of the many childish lines used by Coalition supporters over the last six years is that Australia needs an 'adult government'.

Julie Bishop has been insulated from some of the stupid by being overseas, and is positioned to take over the leadership. Given Sinodinos' dodgy behaviour keeps him out of senior positions, it leaves Andrew Robb and Malcolm Turnbull in the best position to be the 'adults' in the Liberal party taking the finance places (and maybe even paying attention to some of the policy work done by the public service).

With a change like that and the promotion of some of the women and 'rising stars' like Josh Frydenberg, would you vote for the Liberals in the next election?

Or like how Labor deserved to be removed for its infighting, do the Liberals deserve to be removed for causing the immature, unintellectual political discussion of the last six years?

 

[RUNVS]

Under Abbott's irresponsible and immature reign as Liberal leader, Coalition policy has been consistently about politics and spin above everything else. The G20 has neatly highlighted just how short-sighted the current leadership team is.

One of the many childish lines used by Coalition supporters over the last six years is the Australia needs an 'adult government'.

Julie Bishop has been insulated by some of the stupid by being overseas, and is positioned to take over the leadership. Given Sinodinos' dodgy behaviour keeps him out of senior positions, it leaves Andrew Robb and Malcolm Turnbull in the best position to be the 'adults' in the Liberal party taking the finance places (and maybe even paying attention to some of the policy work done by the public service).

With a change like that and the promotion of some of the women and 'rising stars' like Josh Frydenberg, would you vote for the Liberals in the next election?

Or like how Labor deserved to be removed for its infighting, do the Liberals deserve to be removed for causing the immature, unintellectual political discussion of the last six years?

Abbott is no doubt the most childish PM we have ever had. Even though he was an egomaniac who had tantrums at least when Rudd was on the international stage he did not turn Australia into a laughing stock.

 

[poller]

Julie Bishop has been in 3 failed leadership teams

Nelson/J.Bishop
Turnbull/J.Bisshop
Abbott/J.Bishop

Turnbull is weak, liar and vindictive as Abbott
J.Bishop is not as strong as people think

 

[Gough]

Turnbull is on the same trip as Rudd was, independently wealthy and an outsider in his own party. I don't share the hope for him that many have.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Julie Bishop has been in 3 failed leadership teams

Nelson/J.Bishop
Turnbull/J.Bisshop
Abbott/J.Bishop

Turnbull is weak, liar and vindictive as Abbott
J.Bishop is not as strong as people think

I agree that Bishop doesn't particularly deserve to be considered separate to the current leadership team, but she has shown she can speak clearly and concisely and without the ridiculous rhetoric when she wants to. She's doing it right now on The Bolt Report (well, until they got onto criticising the ABC's 7.30 'skit' which didn't even reference MH17, and for which she says the ABC mocked grieving families - just dumb dumb dumb).

Most importantly, she helps the Liberals with women without costing $5.5B/year, and she isn't Turnbull who a lot of Liberals dislike for, y'know, believing in Climate Change and other things the rest of the world thinks is happening.

Turnbull stuffed up with Godwin Grech, but was he really that bad otherwise? My memory had him being ousted mostly because he was an outsider - as Gough says above, the same as Rudd in that instance.

 

[sherb]

That's probably the biggest Abbott lie of all, ie that "the adults were going to be in charge".

Of course many knew it was a lie and aren't surprised by the juvenile style of running the country still the coalition came to power.

 

[rodney hoo]

Turnbull is on the same trip as Rudd was, independently wealthy and an outsider in his own party. I don't share the hope for him that many have.

He has a few brains though which is a hell of a lot more than those that are in charge at present.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Ehhhh, better then Abbott, still wouldn't vote for the liberal party

 

[noddy]

Would be interesting to see how Bishop would handle all the pressure of being our Prime Minister but lets be honest anyone of the Liberal front bench would be an improvement on Abbott.

Would not vote Liberal anyway.

The title of this thread is very appropriate.

 

[sherb]

Ehhhh, better then Abbott, still wouldn't vote for the liberal party

I wouldn't either. Abbott goes as leader, but you've still got Hockey, Pyne, Morrison, Abetz, Brandis, Andrews in the ranks..........

Heaven help us.

 

[Docker Clint]

Always said I'd have voted for a Turnbull lead coalition over a Rudd lead Labor, but he's lost a lot of collateral with his appeasement to the Tea Party nutters in charge just so he can maintain a front bench position.

Bishop would be more likely to have the numbers than Turnbull, if a challenge was on

 

[Docker Clint]

I wouldn't either. Abbott goes as leader, but you've still got Hockey, Pyne, Morrison, Abetz, Brandis, Andrews in the ranks..........

Heaven help us.

There has to be someone on the back bench who isn't batshit crazy. Those names you mentioned should be in a padded cell, not in charge.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Joe Hockey "We can't afford to deal with Climate Change if we are in recession" - Well we aren't in a recession and in 50 years we can't deal with constant bushfires and droughts. What a dick. Bring on the adults.

 

[poller]

I wouldn't either. Abbott goes as leader, but you've still got Hockey, Pyne, Morrison, Abetz, Brandis, Andrews in the ranks..........

Heaven help us.

Turnbull and j.Bishop has achieved nothing so far in this term.

This leadership team would be good for a laugh

C.Pyne / K.Andrews

 

[JeffDunne]

"Our incompetents are better than your incompetents" isn't really the debate we should be having.

We should be trying to reform the system itself. An electoral system that's only capable of churning out options that would seem thin if were hiring for someone to run a Milk Bar.

Regurgitation of talking points from US politics isn't helping either (i.e. the whole "adults in charge" nonsense)

 

[Gough]

I think Shorten's first year has been good. I would have preferred Albo but so far Labor have been united and purposeful in opposition. They allowed themselves to be wedged on the whole national security business, but for mine they've handled themselves well. Whether this can translate into a quick return to government is the tricky question.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

I think Shorten's first year has been good. I would have preferred Albo but so far Labor have been united and purposeful in opposition. They allowed themselves to be wedged on the whole national security business, but for mine they've handled themselves well. Whether this can translate into a quick return to government is the tricky question.

I think Shorten will be undone by the same thing that failed Gillard - his communications. You can't get your message across when people concentrate on how you say it rather than what you're saying. But if they keep Abbott he has every chance of winning.

"Our incompetents are better than your incompetents" isn't really the debate we should be having.

We should be trying to reform the system itself. An electoral system that's only capable of churning out options that would seem thin if were hiring for someone to run a Milk Bar.

Regurgitation of talking points from US politics isn't helping either (i.e. the whole "adults in charge" nonsense)

The problem is only really solved by how we vote. The power is going to mostly lie with the major parties until other realistic options come up. Therefore the in-fighting to be in power positons within those parties is the main game and having spent some time around political types it really does take a lot of patience to stay in there, plus a lot of guile to get the numbers that will move you to the top. Charisma isn't really enough if someone is already in that electorate/branch with the numbers. You essentially have to get those numbers to your cause or influence the person who already has them.

Only once you've done the dance succesffuly in your party do you get the chance to actually be voted on by the public. Then once in power you become a single number again trying to get the numbers to your cause, but beholden to all the other people who comprimised to get their numbers. And then there are the other parties.

Realistically the best option would be the benevolent dictator role where someone finds the best people for the job and then puts them into the positions around the state or country to run for elected office (rather than each office being subject to the vagaries of its branches and all the potential for corruption / dodgy influences / poor choices there). Labor is often criticised by its own members for having that approach, and of course their 'benevolent dictator' role is really about the factions agreeing comprimises, so you end up with someone maybe being Leader of the Senate who might not otherwise be. For example.

Maybe the European norm of minority govt is the answer; and if we dismiss the Rudd/Gillard fight as the deathroes of a majority govt party getting used to minority govt, maybe things will go better next time we have no clear winner at the polls.

 

[little graham]

Or like how Labor deserved to be removed for its infighting, do the Liberals deserve to be removed for causing the immature, unintellectual political discussion of the last six years?

Whoever gets in next has 1 thing they must do. Readjust our democracy to eliminate it being corrupted by mining companies, oil companies, news corp and pharmaceutical companies. This is the most pressing matter in Australia now. If not ever.

 

[poller]

Shorten and labor will be in government in 2016 , there is no doubt , the coalition can not win

I don't know how many of the current coalition members will be back as opposition, The new liberal party leader in opposition in 2016 will likely be Morrison or Hockey

 

[The Coup]

Just throwing it out there but I don't actually believe they really won the last election. Something rigged going on imo.

 

[little graham]

Shorten and labor will be in government in 2016 , there is no doubt , the coalition can not win

Then someone needs to start some kind of think tank looking at ways we can stop democracy being hijacked as it has been. We really don't want american presidents coming here and telling us to pull are head in, in speeches to our uni students, ever again.

 

[JeffDunne]

The problem is only really solved by how we vote. The power is going to mostly lie with the major parties until other realistic options come up. Therefore the in-fighting to be in power positons within those parties is the main game and having spent some time around political types it really does take a lot of patience to stay in there, plus a lot of guile to get the numbers that will move you to the top. Charisma isn't really enough if someone is already in that electorate/branch with the numbers. You essentially have to get those numbers to your cause or influence the person who already has them.

Only once you've done the dance succesffuly in your party do you get the chance to actually be voted on by the public. Then once in power you become a single number again trying to get the numbers to your cause, but beholden to all the other people who comprimised to get their numbers. And then there are the other parties.

Thanks for the pantomime lesson but you probably shouldn't have bothered. I'm fully aware too of the justifications for the status quo and the hope people have that someday it might actually spit out a half decent or worthy individual.

Unfortunately it will never happen. By design.

Debating whose winning and losing in such a system is as pointless as debating who is winning big brother.

If you participate in it then you as much of a problem as the imbeciles such a system produces.

 

[pjcrows]

Australia is fast becoming globally irrelevant and increasingly reliant on others so the party which leads us is largely meaningless anyway.

I'd much prefer Bishop to Abbott because she is at least semi-coherent.

 

[The Coup]

Real change only happens through disobeying a bunch of laws.

 

[The Coup]

Australia is fast becoming globally irrelevant and increasingly reliant on others so the party which leads us is largely meaningless anyway.

I'd much prefer Bishop to Abbott because she is at least semi-coherent.

We've never really been globally relevant except for when we were a bunch of slaves turned revolutionary socialists.