Abbott Leadership challenge - "Et tu, Turnbull?" - 14/9/15

Sep 10, 2004
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We've never really been globally relevant except for when we were a bunch of slaves turned revolutionary socialists.

I'd suggest our resources have made us globally relevant. At the very least regionally prominent. That's fading though. We're facing some interesting times. The Average Aussie attitude will ensure no one really gives a s**t though.
 

Lebbo73

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Joe Hockey "We can't afford to deal with Climate Change if we are in recession" - Well we aren't in a recession and in 50 years we can't deal with constant bushfires and droughts. What a dick. Bring on the adults.
We are in a recession. Not by the definition of two consecutive quarters of negative growth though. But a recession will be confirmed in the short term.
 
Real change only happens through disobeying a bunch of laws.
That in itself doesn't bring change. Often it can be counterproductive too.

But if a system designed to produce an undesirable outcome includes laws framed to protect it then ultimately there isn't much choice. Timing & strategy is everything though. You don't want to be giving those controlling such systems scope to introduce more draconian laws (& thus greater protection).
 
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The Coup

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That in itself doesn't bring change. Often it can counterproductive too.

But if a system designed to produce an undesirable outcome includes laws framed to protect it then ultimately there isn't much choice. Timing & strategy is everything though. You don't want to be giving those controlling such systems scope to introduce more draconian laws (& thus greater protection).

In and of itself of course not.

But you will not get real change unless you break a lot of laws.

Even throwing a genuine protest is illegal in Victoria now.
 

The Coup

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Not by the true sense of the definition. However, we are technically in one now.

Wait a minute, how can you be 'technically' anything if you don't mean the exact literal description?

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

i.e. We are not technically in a recession by the definition, but we are effectively in one?
 

The Coup

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That in itself doesn't bring change. Often it can counterproductive too.

But if a system designed to produce an undesirable outcome includes laws framed to protect it then ultimately there isn't much choice. Timing & strategy is everything though. You don't want to be giving those controlling such systems scope to introduce more draconian laws (& thus greater protection).

Depends. Sometimes the best way to get something started is for the authorities to come down really hard on the first group, mobilising the masses.

Happened in Dublin, worked well.

Also happened in Tunisia, worked VERY well.

Generally the meathead brownshirts do this of their own accord with the help of the media, the key is to make it gruesome and have some actual deaths so you can create some martyrs for the masses. Big funerals help too. Especially if the cops try and break up the funeral.
 
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Then someone needs to start some kind of think tank looking at ways we can stop democracy being hijacked as it has been. We really don't want american presidents coming here and telling us to pull are head in, in speeches to our uni students, ever again.

I remember the good times years ago when we could look down at the Americans when we compared our Prime Minister to their President. I was never a fan of John Howard but at least he understood what it meant to be the Prime Minister. Abbott has no idea.
 

Lebbo73

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Wait a minute, how can you be 'technically' anything if you don't mean the exact literal description?

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

i.e. We are not technically in a recession by the definition, but we are effectively in one?
Nice try. Deny it all you want, but we are months away from your technical recession. We are just waiting for the definition to catch up.
 

The Coup

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Nice try. Deny it all you want, but we are months away from your technical recession. We are just waiting for the definition to catch up.

I didn't say whether I think we're heading for recession or not.

I just said you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to currency, at all. You're a bullshitter.
 
Depends. Sometimes the best way to get something started is for the authorities to come down really hard on the first group, mobilising the masses.

Happened in Dublin, worked well.

Also happened in Tunisia, worked VERY well.

Generally the meathead brownshirts do this of their own accord with the help of the media, the key is to make it gruesome and have some actual deaths so you can create some martyrs for the masses. Big funerals help too. Especially if the cops try and break up the funeral.
This is Australia were talking about.

Martyrs?

You aint going to find too many followers with that sort of approach.
 

The Coup

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This is Australia were talking about.

Martyrs?

You aint going to find too many followers with that sort of approach.

LOL who wants followers, too much pressure. I just have faith that if everything starts burning we can start talking about the issues honestly and actually resolve disputes rather than relying on some pissweak "well you're entitled to your opinion even though its stupid" s**t, like we're dealing with in this very thread with our pal Lebbo.
 
LOL who wants followers, too much pressure. I just have faith that if everything starts burning we can start talking about the issues honestly and actually resolve disputes rather than relying on some pissweak "well you're entitled to your opinion even though its stupid" s**t, like we're dealing with in this very thread with our pal Lebbo.
I hear ya . . . but . . . change is never going to happen like that here. Well not in my lifetime anyway.

If the people that are willing to look beyond the puppetshow aren't prepared to be part of an intelligent effort at change, then there will never be change.
 

The Coup

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I hear ya . . . but . . . change is never going to happen like that here. Well not in my lifetime anyway.

If the people that are willing to look beyond the puppetshow aren't prepared to be part of an intelligent effort at change, then there will never be change.

It has happened here before, it happened here first.
 

The Coup

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What happened here first?

Mass civil disobedience leading to groundbreaking workers rights and economic worth. Birthplace of the middle class and the 8 hour work day.

The rich didn't just hand us the highest wages on earth, we took them as a group.
 
Nice try. Deny it all you want, but we are months away from your technical recession. We are just waiting for the definition to catch up.
There goes the Coalitions' economic credibility then.
 
I hear ya . . . but . . . change is never going to happen like that here. Well not in my lifetime anyway.

If the people that are willing to look beyond the puppetshow aren't prepared to be part of an intelligent effort at change, then there will never be change.
How exactly do we effect change though Jeffrey?

The system we have seems to be completely ingrained.
 
Sep 10, 2004
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Change doesn't happen until people feel like they really want things to change.

Majority of Western nations, despite our inclinations to whinge, are relatively happy and satisfied. The politicians and big business know it so they just feed everyone little tidbits of "change" every now and again to make us feel like our contributions to "democracy" make a difference.

A lot of people say it won't change. It will eventually. I'm just not sure it'll be replaced with anything better, fairer or more sustainable.

Western humanity has gone past the tipping point of ever reverting to non-capitalist non-fascist systems. It's what we have now, or worse.
 
Mass civil disobedience leading to groundbreaking workers rights and economic worth. Birthplace of the middle class and the 8 hour work day.

The rich didn't just hand us the highest wages on earth, we took them as a group.
Ah. I see.

Different time, different situation and god help us if we need a repeat of the social conditions back then before we see a change in how we elect governments.
 

The Coup

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Ah. I see.

Different time, different situation and god help us if we need a repeat of the social conditions back then before we see a change in how we elect governments.

Its all relative

Back then we went from slaves, to skilled workers under slave conditions, to revolutionaries, to the best middle class in the world

Now we're going from the best middle class in the world to a smaller middle class with less social mobility.

If it goes much worse than that we'll see some real opportunities for change born of necessity.
 

The Coup

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Change doesn't happen until people feel like they really want things to change.

Majority of Western nations, despite our inclinations to whinge, are relatively happy and satisfied. The politicians and big business know it so they just feed everyone little tidbits of "change" every now and again to make us feel like our contributions to "democracy" make a difference.

A lot of people say it won't change. It will eventually. I'm just not sure it'll be replaced with anything better, fairer or more sustainable.

Western humanity has gone past the tipping point of ever reverting to non-capitalist non-fascist systems. It's what we have now, or worse.

Nah socialism and eventually communism still presents a perfectly viable alternative to capitalism and fascism.

But it is very threatening to the people that have the most power and gain income through exploiting literally everyone else, just as it was when it took off a hundred odd years ago.
 
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