The Cuts

[Topkent]

AFAIC if Watts explodes one year in his late 20s and it coincides with a premiership he's justified us taking him at #1. This is basically all I'm holding out for with Jack now haha.

Also, I would not be trading Jimmy Toumpas for a top 10 pick. Sure he might be a dud but all we get with a draft pick is chance to select another dud. You can tell that he loves the club and there's never been any talk since day one at all about him potentially going home, such is how well he's transitioned in. Everyone speaks very highly of him and he's already stuck fat and worked hard for two years through misery. There's no point in hiring guys like Crossy to mentor Toumpas and co through adversity if you're just going to cut them after two years if they don't star immediately despite showing noting but loyalty. It sets a very bad cultural precedent.

Do I wish we'd picked Wines or Macrae? Sure. But we didn't. And now it's time for us to suck it up, take responsibility for the pick, and help Dimitri turn it around.

I do admire your confidence
This stage of the season im flipping through the youtube videos of this years draftees and working out how to trade everyone

 

[Cannon82]

Here is some footage of him in his draft year.

Not sure about 'explosive' - but he was certainly drafted as a hard runner with a bit of pace and elite footskills.

The hard running will get better with more pre-seasons, but I do hope he can get some of that speed back. You dont find as much space on the outside in the AFL either - so he'll certainly need to get a bit more of his own footy as well.

I remember watching his draft highlights video at the time and thinking he was horribly one-footed and not a lot else. Finds space and has a bit of pace at junior level, which is nothing to get that excited about, and is a dinky little chipper rather than penetrative kick.

Guess we'll see how much he kicks on during the pre-season. I presume we're training at the level or thereabouts of the rest of the competition now.

 

[Klyntonius]

I like fitz and I see value in keeping him, Just that if the coaching staff doesnt then try and get something for him while he has some sort of value left

For what it's worth (which is likely nothing) a guy on Facebook reckons he spoke who Fitzy's father who says he'll be traded at seasons end for whatever we can get for him.

How long do we give the toump? Christian Salem and JKH have already gone past him as rounded AFL players in the coaches mind
In fact Matt Jones and Rohan Bail are considered more rounded players at this stage

We give him more than 2 injury interrupted seasons. This sounds like Hawks fans bemoaning taking Hodge over Judd for the first two or three unimpressive years of his career. Not many are complaining now.

In fact Salem has already shown more capable skills at AFL level than Toumpas, Dom Tyson has shown a ****load more ability on the back of missing the pre season

How impressive were Tyson's first two seasons?

 

[Captain Jack]

FFS this talk of Toumpas is so frustrating. Not every player has an immediate impact in the AFL. Give the kid some time, and a half-decent team to play in hopefully.

 

[Dez!]

FFS this talk of Toumpas is so frustrating. Not every player has an immediate impact in the AFL. Give the kid some time, and a half-decent team to play in hopefully.

No execute the kent, should have kicked 100+ goals in his few games this season and had 50+ possessions multiple times.

 

[fushy]

How impressive were Tyson's first two seasons?

Dont say that people will need use logic.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

How impressive were Tyson's first two seasons?

Thankfully he wasn't traded prematurely before turning into a star!

Oh wait.

 

[Topkent]

Thankfully he wasn't traded prematurely before turning into a star!

Oh wait.

In another system , for which he was traded for another young kid who has shown more at GWS than he did

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

In another system , for which he was traded for another young kid who has shown more at GWS than he did

I honestly don't know what you're getting at.

Clearly we've developed him better than GWS has.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

In another system , for which he was traded for another young kid who has shown more at GWS than he did

Tyson and Kelly actually have pretty similar levels of output for their first years, the only difference being that Tyson was playing in a far, far worse team in its inaugural year, and he suffered from injury and an interrupted preseason.

 

[Dez!]

In another system , for which he was traded for another young kid who has shown more at GWS than he did

And he's shown more at Melbourne than he did at GWS? What's your point?

 

[Topkent]

I honestly don't know what you're getting at.

Clearly we've developed him better than GWS has.

That the change was good for Tyson and GWS have also had a winner with Kelly, In another words if we can ship off Toumpas for a win win then im all for it

I probably worded it poorly

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

That the change was good for Tyson and GWS have also had a winner with Kelly, In another words if we can ship off Toumpas for a win win then im all for it

I probably worded it poorly

Bit different though. Tyson was one young kid among many at GWS, pretty much a statistic. Keeping Toumpas at the Dees is hardly hurting the development of anyone else.

 

[Topkent]

Bit different though. Tyson was one young kid among many at GWS, pretty much a statistic. Keeping Toumpas at the Dees is hardly hurting the development of anyone else.

I just think its ok to cut your losses early on someone in order to get maximum value, considering our history of draft picks you might understand why

But like Ive said, if he stays kills the preseason and starts playing well next year ill be just as happy as anyone

 

[Demon 16]

I would have thought that the Tyson example is exactly the reason why we shouldn't move a player on after only 2 seasons.

 

[Topkent]

I would have thought that the Tyson example is exactly the reason why we shouldn't move a player on after only 2 seasons.

Except it was a WIN WIN at GWS, who knows what would have happened if he stayed, he could have continued to stall and not get a game and lose all confidence
Maybe the move to the Dees has invigorated him to prove them wrong?

Its not like they gave Tyson up for pick 45 and now regret it
I would only consider a top 10 pick for Toumpas, because then you could potentially shop 3 top 10 picks around for young talent already in the system

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

I just think its ok to cut your losses early on someone in order to get maximum value, considering our history of draft picks you might understand why

But like Ive said, if he stays kills the preseason and starts playing well next year ill be just as happy as anyone

Considering our history of draft picks you should understand why not!

 

[Demon 16]

Except it was a WIN WIN at GWS, who knows what would have happened if he stayed, he could have continued to stall and not get a game and lose all confidence
Maybe the move to the Dees has invigorated him to prove them wrong?

Its not like they gave Tyson up for pick 45 and now regret it
I would only consider a top 10 pick for Toumpas, because then you could potentially shop 3 top 10 picks around for young talent already in the system

Difference being, that Toumpas isn't being stalling and losing confidence at Melbourne - all be it that he's doing his development work in the reserves.

If Toumpas isn't ready to play regular seniors at Melbourne, then he sure as he'll isn't ready to donut anywhere else.

 

[Cannon82]

"If you can't play at the level required then you can't play AFL footy, it doesn't matter which club you're at," Roos said.
"If you don't think players can get to that level, then you're silly hanging on to them."

Pinched that off the AFL website in the article where Schwarz suggests trading Watts. Looks like he is going nowhere and the part-time jobbers filling spaces on the list are in trouble. Any player who hasn't signed a contract for next year yet may have their ticket punched.

Re: Toumpas, I am happy to sit on the fence on this as it is early doors yet. It's pretty irrelevant pointing out comparisons between injured players though. Toumpas isn't Tyson, Judd, Strauss or Blease, so we'll just have to wait and see. Needs to get fit and nail down a place next season - should be easy given the lack of talent on our list.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Is Toumpas out of contract?

 

[Klyntonius]

Re: Toumpas, I am happy to sit on the fence on this as it is early doors yet. It's pretty irrelevant pointing out comparisons between injured players though. Toumpas isn't Tyson, Judd, Strauss or Blease, so we'll just have to wait and see. Needs to get fit and nail down a place next season - should be easy given the lack of talent on our list.

The comparison are irrelevant to an extent except to show that you can't always gauge a player within their first two seasons. Toumpas was never a ready made AFL player like Wines was and he had to deal with injury to boot, that would be why I would say talk of 'cutting our losses" (what losses?) already is significantly premature. He has the right attitude and with time and maturity I think he'll be alright.

 

[Dez!]

Is Toumpas out of contract?

End of next year, he signed on for the extra year when he was drafted I believe.

 

[Topkent]

The comparison are irrelevant to an extent except to show that you can't always gauge a player within their first two seasons. Toumpas was never a ready made AFL player like Wines was and he had to deal with injury to boot, that would be why I would say talk of 'cutting our losses" (what losses?) already is significantly premature. He has the right attitude and with time and maturity I think he'll be alright.

The losses being when you give up the 3rd pick for a player who was rated the 2nd best mid in the draft and needs to be a superstar or its a failed pick

 

[Cannon82]

The comparison are irrelevant to an extent except to show that you can't always gauge a player within their first two seasons. Toumpas was never a ready made AFL player like Wines was and he had to deal with injury to boot, that would be why I would say talk of 'cutting our losses" (what losses?) already is significantly premature. He has the right attitude and with time and maturity I think he'll be alright.

I'm fine with that - two seasons is too early to call on some players, and yes, he's had a few injury issues. Saying that, playing as an outside mid the requirements are being able to use the pill and a tank for running. It's very hard to look good in our current team but I would think a top 5 or 10 draft pick should be a walk in in a team as devoid of talent and kicking skills as ours, so he needs to step up next year. We make enough excuses for our players.

I wouldn't say it's significantly premature to cut losses - if offered a top 10 pick for him, I'd take it. He's a bit of a luxury player for a side that still needs the critical components you build a team around (KPPs, solid inside mids).

 

[Dez!]

I'm fine with that - two seasons is too early to call on some players, and yes, he's had a few injury issues. Saying that, playing as an outside mid the requirements are being able to use the pill and a tank for running. It's very hard to look good in our current team but I would think a top 5 or 10 draft pick should be a walk in in a team as devoid of talent and kicking skills as ours, so he needs to step up next year. We make enough excuses for our players.

I wouldn't say it's significantly premature to cut losses - if offered a top 10 pick for him, I'd take it. He's a bit of a luxury player for a side that still needs the critical components you build a team around (KPPs, solid inside mids).

He would have but the whole being injured thing doesn't help a guy.