The Death Penalty for Chan

[BurningBright]

Lol. Beef prices are soaring. It's never been a better time to farm cattle for beef. Our farmers are enjoying the spoils of high demand and wide margins.

The chinese that bought the cattle stations will be stoked

 

[swiftdog]

What do you mean by 'start'? They are already throwing themselves off the perch at a rate of knots. What will happen will be that these farmers of whom you speak will die, as is their choice. This was not an option available to those two murdered by the Indonesians, at your bloodthirsty urging. At least those two made an effort to act in a human fashion during their last ten years of torture, something of which you seem incapable. Pond scum is more moral than you.

So they didn't have choice to not smuggle drugs in a country that has a well-established death penalty for drug smuggling?

 

[BurningBright]

I can see, from an Indonesian perspective

how one can be pissed off when given 'Tsunami aid'. Then the Australian PM holds you to ransom over it.

How do you say 'tosser' in indo?

 

[UFO Tatsu]

I can see, from an Indonesian perspective

how one can be pissed off when given 'Tsunami aid'. Then the Australian PM holds you to ransom over it.

How do you say 'tosser' in indo?

Still the same apparently

 

[skilts]

So they didn't have choice to not smuggle drugs in a country that has a well-established death penalty for drug smuggling?

The Indonesian government had the choice of whether or not to murder the two men. The government had ten years to think about it, yet still chose to act like the barbaric pudenda they are.

 

[swiftdog]

The Indonesian government had the choice of whether or not to murder the two men. The government had ten years to think about it, yet still chose to act like the barbaric pudenda they are.

I'm not trying justify the punishment for the crime. You can't be punished if you never commit the crime though (simplistic yes but I'm assuming that Chan and Sukamaran did this out of their own free will).

At the end of the day they decided to smuggle drugs in a country with a well-established death penalty for drug smugglers. The reality is that what's right or wrong, fair or unfair didn't matter, if you smuggle drugs in Indonesia you risk death if you get caught, fact. They knew the risks before they made their choice. The Indonesian wouldn't have needed to make a choice on whether to use the death penalty or not if Chan and Sukamaran never made the choice to smuggle drugs in the first place.

 

[little graham]

The Indonesian government had the choice of whether or not to murder the two men. The government had ten years to think about it, yet still chose to act like the barbaric pudenda they are.

England have had over 60 years to do something about the genocide in Malaysia her soldiers committed (have admitted) and have chosen not to. Why don't you go on about that?

 

[skilts]

England have had over 60 years to do something about the genocide in Malaysia her soldiers committed (have admitted) and have chosen not to. Why don't you go on about that?

I have taken full responsibility for the actions of the British soldiers. It was for this reason that I resigned from Attlee's government.

 

[skilts]

I'm not trying justify the punishment for the crime. You can't be punished if you never commit the crime though (simplistic yes but I'm assuming that Chan and Sukamaran did this out of their own free will).

At the end of the day they decided to smuggle drugs in a country with a well-established death penalty for drug smugglers. The reality is that what's right or wrong, fair or unfair didn't matter, if you smuggle drugs in Indonesia you risk death if you get caught, fact. They knew the risks before they made their choice. The Indonesian wouldn't have needed to make a choice on whether to use the death penalty or not if Chan and Sukamaran never made the choice to smuggle drugs in the first place.

Wrong. What happened at the end of the day was the murder of these two men. Chan and Sukamaran were not active participants in this. Their involvement in the process effectively ended ten years previously. You have misunderstood what the real crime was which was committed.

 

[little graham]

Genocide was committed and covered up to steal resources off Malaysians so England could afford a nuclear weapons programs and do this.
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/previous series/lcj/1-20/wayward/ch16.html

In the interests of the testing program, it was decided to curtail the movements of those Aboriginal people traversing the Maralinga area. In addition, a number were taken to a reserve which had recently been established at Yalata, some distance to the south, across the transcontinental railway line. The removal of Aboriginal people from their traditional homelands was more than an inconvenience.

The Maralinga lands contained mythological sites of spiritual significance for their inhabitants, a significance which was at best only vaguely appreciated by white officials. Indeed, this lack of sensitivity was illustrated by the consideration given by authorities to identifying sacred objects and 'removing' them to areas of resettlement (Australia 1985, pp. 300-1).

During the 1950s, hundreds of former inhabitants of the Maralinga lands sought to reaffirm their threatened culture by travelling considerable distances from the Yalata area in order to attend ceremonial functions and to visit other Aboriginal groups. These movements extended as far west as Cundalee, Western Australia, and as far east as Coober Pedy and Mabel Creek.

Some Aboriginal people were even less fortunate. Security patrols in and around the Maralinga area were intermittently effective, and from time to time some Aboriginal people were evicted from the area. Years later, Aboriginal people from Western Australia would recall how they were directed away from Maralinga along a road which diverged from their standard water hole routes, and how some of their party died from lack of access to water.

For those who survived, there seems little doubt that for the Western Desert (Maralinga) people the alien settlement of Yalata and lack of access to their desert homelands contributed significantly to the social disintegration which characterises the community to this day. Petrol sniffing, juvenile crime, alcoholism and chronic friction between residents and the South Australian police have become facts of life (Brady & Morice 1982).

Yet fools here abuse Indonesians for executing drug smugglers threatening peoples families if they don't run drugs for them. I don't think there is a term that adequately describes how sick some people are.

A variety of factors underlay the harm to public health, Aboriginal culture and the natural environment which the British tests entailed. Perhaps most significant was the secrecy surrounding the testing program. The decision to make the Monte Bello Islands available to the British for their first nuclear test appears to have been made by the Prime Minister alone, without reference to Cabinet, much less Parliament or the Australian public. During the entire course of the testing program, public debate on the costs and risks borne by the Australian public was discouraged through official secrecy, censorship, misinformation, and attempts to denigrate critics.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

If a scientist announced he'd found a cure for AIDS there would be people asking him why he hates people with cancer.

 

[skilts]

Genocide was committed and covered up to steal resources off Malaysians so England could afford a nuclear weapons programs and do this.
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/previous series/lcj/1-20/wayward/ch16.html

Yet fools here abuse Indonesians for executing drug smugglers threatening peoples families if they don't run drugs for them. I don't think there is a term that adequately describes how sick some people are.

I'd already resigned from the government by the time these events occurred.

 

[swiftdog]

Wrong. What happened at the end of the day was the murder of these two men. Chan and Sukamaran were not active participants in this. Their involvement in the process effectively ended ten years previously. You have misunderstood what the real crime was which was committed.

Sorry, but we live in the real world. A world where you face the death penalty for smuggling drugs in Indonesia. "Real" crime? Drug smuggling is a "real" crime to the Indonesian government, you potentially face the death penalty if you're caught. It's their perspective that matters in Indonesia, not yours. Your perspective on the death penalty simply doesn't matter to Indonesia, they do not give a s**t. If you want to avoid getting the death penalty for smuggling drugs in Indonesia then don't smuggle drugs in Indonesia. Chan and Sukamaran knew this and smuggled drugs anyway. Did they deserve the death penalty? No, and as I said earlier I'm not trying to condone the use of the death penalty. However, they put themselves in this situation, they failed in their personal responsibility to themselves, and they paid the well-established price. That the price was unfair is ultimately moot, it is what it is and everybody knows it.

 

[skilts]

Sorry, but we live in the real world. A world where you face the death penalty for smuggling drugs in Indonesia. "Real" crime? Drug smuggling is a "real" crime to the Indonesian government, you potentially face the death penalty if you're caught. It's their perspective that matters in Indonesia, not yours. Your perspective on the death penalty simply doesn't matter to Indonesia, they do not give a s**t. If you want to avoid getting the death penalty for smuggling drugs in Indonesia then don't smuggle drugs in Indonesia. Chan and Sukamaran knew this and smuggled drugs anyway. Did they deserve the death penalty? No, and as I said earlier I'm not trying to condone the use of the death penalty. However, they put themselves in this situation, they failed in their personal responsibility to themselves, and they paid the well-established price. That the price was unfair is ultimately moot, it is what it is and everybody knows it.

You are trying to justify state-sponsored, cold-blooded murder on the basis of that's the way it is. It will be forever so if those like you meekly accept such barbarity, and in fact, encourage it by your complicity. If drug smuggling were treated as a 'real crime' in Indonesia, the whole exercise of murdering people wouldn't degenerate into an unseemly a circus. They should also pay attention to the farce that is their judicial system, where the amount you pay in bribes determines the outcome.

 

[Thrawn]

Sorry, but we live in the real world. A world where you face the death penalty for smuggling drugs in Indonesia.

A world that exists because of people who are indifferent and/or corrupted.

 

[Sugar2Sideshow]

You support the death penalty for homosexuals? Law of the land, and all that, they'd know the risks.

If you are talking about that countries own citizens then it is a completely different story. The issue is whether Australians should be able to break laws they feel are unjust when they travel abroad.

The equivalent in this situation would be a gay australian couple going to somewhere that has the death penalty for homosexuality, walking around holding hands, kissing in public then getting arrested and protesting that the laws are wrong.

Some countries don't allow women to wear "indecent" clothing. So, if you're not prepared to cover yourself up while visiting that country, don't visit that country. Or face the consequences.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

If you are talking about that countries own citizens then it is a completely different story. The issue is whether Australians should be able to break laws they feel are unjust when they travel abroad.

The equivalent in this situation would be a gay australians couple going to somewhere that has the death penalty for homosexuality, walking around holding hands, kissing in public then getting arrested and protesting that the laws are wrong.

Some countries don't allow women to wear "indecent" clothing. So, if you're not prepared to cover yourself up while visiting that country, don't visit that country. Or face the consequences.

no its not there's only one issue, are you against the death penalty. Yes or No.
there's no other arguments to be had here your either ok with people being tied to a post and being shot or your not. everything else is nonsense.
all the arguments boil down to the same thing.

I only think the death penalty for should be used for "heinous" crimes. Translation "I'm ok with the death penalty"
well i don't support the death penalty in Australia, But in other countries i don't have an issue with them enforcing their laws. Translation: I'm ok with the death penalty"

lets cut through the bullshit,
would you be ok with another country doing any of the following with the complete consent of the state?
ripping out finger nails and other types of torture to get confessions?
forced labour of prisoners?
beating prisoners?
working prisoners to death?
experimenting on prisoners without their consent?
using prisoners as target practice?

If not why? the answer is quite simple these things violate your sense of what is right and what is wrong.
To you that s**t is wrong, there is no negotiation, no "well when in rome" because for you it cross a moral boundary.
To you its wrong. It doesn't matter if the law says its ok, to you it is wrong and always will be wrong.

the only time you don't have an issue with it, is when you don't actually have an issue forced labour camps when you don't have an issue with torture.
the simple truth is people are "ok" with the death penalty, they just don't feel they are capable of justifying the fact they are ok with state sanctioned murder so they pretend otherwise.

I mean lets be honest here using your examples:
Do you think Saudi Arabia is wrong for forcing women to cover up? Do you feel it is a gross injustice that must end? or are you simply ok with Saudi Arabia doing that?
Do you think Iran is wrong for executing gays? Do you feel this is a gross injustice that must end? or are you simply ok with Iran doing that?

Because for people who actually do Oppose the death penalty rather then hide behind BS platitudes and carefully worded argument's thats what the death penalty is, An Injustice which simply must end. It doesn't matter who the victim is, where they're from or what they did or what country they did it in. When people say they are against the death penalty they actually mean it.

 

[little graham]

His addiction also landed him in the notorious Chelmsford Private Hospital in 1976 where he underwent deep sleep therapy and electric shock treatment with disastrous results.The Easybeats front man was one of a number of former patients to give evidence at a royal commission into the Pennant Hills hospital, after 24 patients died following deep sleep therapy and a further 19 committed suicide within a year of treatment.

Wheres all your love for these dead people skilts. Murdered while being forcefully electrocuted by pseudo scientists. Oh wait, the murderers are white, not Indonesian so it doesn't matter does it?

In an interview with the Sydney Morning Herald after the inquiry, Wright recalled trying to escape from the institution where he was being treated for an addiction to methadone, which he had been prescribed to help him get off heroin.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/the-addiction-that-took-everything-from-stevie-wright-20151228-glvsht.html

How many of the pethetic dickheads in here saying Chan deserved another chance have been posting RIP s**t about Stevie Wright. He wasn't given a second chance when they electrocuted him because methadone was addictive. Why do you fools think Chan should get a second chance but say nothing about Stevie?

 

[Doss]

I believe you are confusing two completely separate and unrelated issues.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I believe you are confusing two completely separate and unrelated issues.

As flimsy an excuse to bump a thread as I have seen.

 

[Gough]

Difficult to imagine Australian music without £10 Poms, one of the few bright points of the White Australia policy.

 

[little graham]

I believe you are confusing two completely separate and unrelated issues.

You're entitled to believe what you want to believe and I know you have history on this forum being inappropriate towards posters who dare speak publicly about barbaric and criminal mental health practices. Do you remember what you did when I encountered bullying after posting scientific evidence anti depressants cause suicide idealization? I remember real well. You deleted my posts. Censored discussion about a very serious issue that is killing people. I see those same posters you protected still behave in the same violent way towards others. Some of them bullies had financial interests in the industry that lies to consumers about those drugs (one a chemist one a wannabe psychologist)

If there wasn't scum like Chan making millions smuggling herion to the likes of wright, pseudo scientists wouldn't experiment on the likes of wright with electrocution the first chance they get. Chan got what he deserved. Wright didn't. Will Julie Bishop come out and say wright deserves another chance like she said about Chan?

 

[Doss]

little graham, create your own thread on this issue.

I'm not going to have you hijack this and turn it into a soap box and to accuse me of bullying you or anyone else is rather ridiculous.

The issues you're raising are absolutely worthy of discussion, however this thread is about the death penalty and what happened to Stevie Wright is quite a separate issue.