No Oppo Supporters The ASADA Thread... from a Tiger perspective

[fleabitten]

12 clubs were found to be doing a s**t job of that, obviously EFC at the pointy end. Part of the reason I wanted a full, independent and transparent audit of all clubs - I don't think EFC are the only club to have this as an issue.

12 clubs might have had slack paperwork habits, but they weren't jabbing themselves silly as far as I'm aware.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

12 clubs might have had slack paperwork habits, but they weren't jabbing themselves silly as far as I'm aware.

big rumours about a couple we cannot mention....

also the awesome AFL audit gave all clubs a clean bill, and just weeks later the Melbourne stuff came out.

just like illicit drugs, the AFL dont want to find this problem until its too obvious for them to ignore.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

I didn't listen, but EFC board is saying Caro apparently said on AW today that those in the AFL who have seen the evidence think EFC will get off. Don't know if thats reading too much into it (reality is bomber fans are looking for any ray of sunshine they can get), but Caro has been the AFL mouthpiece throughout this.

FWIW I think either it will be a 1-2 year ban or a not guilty (cant see a deal being done now), so no matter what way things go its going to have massive ramifications.

Excuse my ignorance rfctiger74 as I tend to avoid the whole story mostly now.
But in the likely event the AFL decide not guilty where does that leave us?
Will that finally be it?
Or is there an ASADA or WADA watching everthing from afar with a big stick?

 

[Nuffers]

If a professional sporting club is not keeping records when they have most of their list being injected offsite on a regular basis, then they need to be kicked out of the comp for pure stupidity and negligence.

You would be suprised what a thorough audit of any company would turn up. Most are lacking in some form of governance.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Excuse my ignorance rfctiger74 as I tend to avoid the whole story mostly now.
But in the likely event the AFL decide not guilty where does that leave us?
Will that finally be it?
Or is there an ASADA or WADA watching everthing from afar with a big stick?

In a big ******* mess. Asada could appeal the decision, so this could go on longer. Also I imagine there would be a fair bit of political backlash, and possibly further legal actions.

Putting aside the notion of a fair trial, the best arrangement for "us" would be a negotiated deal between the players and asada, which I suspect would then see asada move onto the officials in some way. A two year ban to efc players will see their players start the appeal process, although they couldn't play through this.

Just IMO, but if no deal is made this is going to be hanging around for a long time to come

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

That's what I was afraid of.
Finding it completely energy sapping for the game.

 

[SunshineBoy]

yes they fast tracked him,but he is really the unknown in all of this. My knowledge is parents highly disapproved.Belief is he's ok.

There was something about him bulking up in the 10-15 km range in that short preseason

 

[SunshineBoy]

See here's the thing, I didn't see the warning until after the ban, I told the mod who got me that as long as you apply it to everyone then I don't have a problem getting the ban if I'm at fault, it didn't look that way to me as the same mod was still offering warnings but I got done without a warning.
Whattya gonna do, just have to cop it on the chin.

Change your club to gws/fremantle/or dare I say essendrugs

 

[SunshineBoy]

See here's the thing, I didn't see the warning until after the ban, I told the mod who got me that as long as you apply it to everyone then I don't have a problem getting the ban if I'm at fault, it didn't look that way to me as the same mod was still offering warnings but I got done without a warning.
Whattya gonna do, just have to cop it on the chin.

Change your club to gws/fremantle/or dare I say essendrugs

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

December 15th is the day.

Also, AFL now drawing up contingency plans in the event the Bombers are banned.

And we get to play these campaigners twice next year. Load up on Jack for the Coleman.

 

[fleabitten]

You would be suprised what a thorough audit of any company would turn up. Most are lacking in some form of governance.

But we're talking about a sporting organization that is conducting an injection regime that they know is at least close to the line of what is legal. You'd have to be a moron to not cover yourself with the correct paperwork if you knew you were staying on the legal side. There's just no way they could be that casual about it.

 

[Nuffers]

But we're talking about a sporting organization that is conducting an injection regime that they know is at least close to the line of what is legal. You'd have to be a moron to not cover yourself with the correct paperwork if you knew you were staying on the legal side. There's just no way they could be that casual about it.

You should see what your local government organisation gets up to........ History is littered with morons.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

But we're talking about a sporting organization that is conducting an injection regime that they know is at least close to the line of what is legal. You'd have to be a moron to not cover yourself with the correct paperwork if you knew you were staying on the legal side. There's just no way they could be that casual about it.

As someone in compliance, I can tell you some of the biggest companies in the country had no serious record keeping for regulatory compliance until a fubar situation occurs.

 

[fleabitten]

As someone in compliance, I can tell you some of the biggest companies in the country had no serious record keeping for regulatory compliance until a fubar situation occurs.

But were they engaging in activities that they knew were borderline and would end the careers of everyone involved if they were deemed to have crossed that line? Surely if you know you're on the edge but not doing anything wrong, you keep records. If you don't and there's any doubt, then you deserve to be treated like the line was crossed.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

But were they engaging in activities that they knew were borderline and would end the careers of everyone involved if they were deemed to have crossed that line? Surely if you know you're on the edge but not doing anything wrong, you keep records. If you don't and there's any doubt, then you deserve to be treated like the line was crossed.

Yes, and in areas that could kill people due to a non compliance. Tbh what's happening with efc is minor compared to some of the cases I'm thinking of (in terms of harm and risk exposure, and scope)

The issue is people assume their systems are right because no problems occur

 

[Nuffers]

But were they engaging in activities that they knew were borderline and would end the careers of everyone involved if they were deemed to have crossed that line? Surely if you know you're on the edge but not doing anything wrong, you keep records. If you don't and there's any doubt, then you deserve to be treated like the line was crossed.

There was a company that sold shares to dead people to keep their stocks up....... A car manufacturer that covered up known faults for years until an investigation into a death uncovered the truth ....... Look at the s**t one of the big supermarket chains is getting into at the moment too.....

EFC are small had very little to non compliance management in place. You can also put your ball on 17 other clubs had less than ideal processes too, not anymore though.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

There was a company that sold shares to dead people to keep their stocks up....... A car manufacturer that covered up known faults for years until an investigation into a death uncovered the truth ....... Look at the s**t one of the big supermarket chains is getting into at the moment too.....

EFC are small had very little to non compliance management in place. You can also put your ball on 17 other clubs had less than ideal processes too, not anymore though.

spot on, and I know the supermarket you are talking about, and the less I say on the details the better

 

[fleabitten]

I don't know why I still get surprised at the lack of common sense and morals in the world.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I don't know why I still get surprised at the lack of common sense and morals in the world.

to be fair, its not morals in my experience. most the people have good intentions. they just assume if they haven't been punished, everything must be cool. Its a discussion ive had with many a customer, trying to convince them that due diligence matters.

its why Ive been so big on this whole issue. it should never have happened if proper review processes were in place, and it worries me that we dont have these at our club (to my understanding)

 

[fleabitten]

Surely we do now. Not sure we've had the money to be getting cute with "supplements" until very recently, so I'm not too concerned about what we've been up to in that area.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Surely we do now. Not sure we've had the money to be getting cute with "supplements" until very recently, so I'm not too concerned about what we've been up to in that area.

this is the problem though. just because we havent had a major supplement program doesn't mean we shouldn't have a proper compliance program on all supplement use

do we have files on all supplements given to our players?

are all supplements confirmed as ASADA compliant by both our club doctor and an independent consultant?

so we have full records of all supplement purchases, use, and waste disposal?

do we have an approval process for suppliers of supplements to the club?

do we have details of all supplements players are taking independently?

do we randomly validate samples to confirm product compliance?

Given the responses I heard from the club shortly after the EFC thing broke out, the answer to most of these questions I believe would be "ummm....."

To be fair, I think most clubs are in the same boat

 

[fleabitten]

Oh definitely. We should learn from the Bumblers and make sure we can never be under any suspicion for doing anything like what they've been up to. I just mean, I'm not too worried about us having crossed any lines in that area in the past, at least not on a club-wide scale (you never know what any individual player has been taking).

If we haven't taken all appropriate measures to make sure everything is done by the book since this Essendon thing blew up, that's definitely a concern.

 

[SunshineBoy]

As someone in compliance, I can tell you some of the biggest companies in the country had no serious record keeping for regulatory compliance until a fubar situation occurs.

So we should excuse them and let them off? What about the seventeen other clubs who didn't cheat? stuff them its all about Essendon.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So we should excuse them and let them off? What about the seventeen other clubs who didn't cheat? stuff them its all about Essendon.

Did I say that? The point is the other clubs IMO have barely changed practices since the efc thing blew up, and are just as vulnerable as they were.

We already know the dees were outsourcing, and this wasn't picked up by the famous afl review.

Also you are naive if you think efc is the only club to have had a supps program. Can you think of any other clubs who became stronger and faster overnight?

 

[SunshineBoy]

Did I say that? The point is the other clubs IMO have barely changed practices since the efc thing blew up, and are just as vulnerable as they were.

We already know the dees were outsourcing, and this wasn't picked up by the famous afl review.

Also you are naive if you think efc is the only club to have had a supps program. Can you think of any other clubs who became stronger and faster overnight?

As it stands at the moment only essendon have been rumbled and only Essendon are facing doping charges, and that is fact, go and peddle your everyone else is doing it on the Essendon campaigners board.