No Oppo Supporters The ASADA Thread... from a Tiger perspective

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Was speaking to a well connected bloke in footy yesterday.
Don't know him that well so can't make a judgement on whether he's full of s**t or not.
But he was talking about this whole saga and knew a lot of stuff.
But his main thing was he reckons we have seen nothing.
Says that Workcare are involved and have been for a while and are about to drop an atomic bomb on Essendon?
He reckon a it will nearly wipe them out?
Wait and see I guess.

 

[nut]

Was speaking to a well connected bloke in footy yesterday.
Don't know him that well so can't make a judgement on whether he's full of s**t or not.
But he was talking about this whole saga and knew a lot of stuff.
But his main thing was he reckons we have seen nothing.
Says that Workcare are involved and have been for a while and are about to drop an atomic bomb on Essendon?
He reckon a it will nearly wipe them out?
Wait and see I guess.

It should have been a WorkSafe issue from day one... in the scheme of things who care what ASADA think? or what the penalties are..... I want to know why substances were given to players that were not fit for human use and why young players were treated like lab rats.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Was speaking to a well connected bloke in footy yesterday.
Don't know him that well so can't make a judgement on whether he's full of s**t or not.
But he was talking about this whole saga and knew a lot of stuff.
But his main thing was he reckons we have seen nothing.
Says that Workcare are involved and have been for a while and are about to drop an atomic bomb on Essendon?
He reckon a it will nearly wipe them out?
Wait and see I guess.

I've been saying this for a while but the HTB don't want to hear about it. The evidence ASADA had in the interim report was staggering, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. ASADA know about the "pharmacologically experimental environment". They know about the "financials" of the program. They know the players were used as test subjects for Danky and Hird's experiments. They know they planned on using the results to market their drug to Chinese pharmaceutical companies. And they know a whole bunch of stuff that the media and general public have absolutely no clue about. They have 350 pages of evidence. 350! Three Hundred and fifty!

Yet on the HTB you still have kool-aid drinkers thinking ASADA's entire case rests on the dosage regimes the players admitted to receiving with no other evidence. Essendon are gone.

 

[AstroboyUK]

I've been saying this for a while but the HTB don't want to hear about it. The evidence ASADA had in the interim report was staggering, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. ASADA know about the "pharmacologically experimental environment". They know about the "financials" of the program. They know the players were used as test subjects for Danky and Hird's experiments. They know they planned on using the results to market their drug to Chinese pharmaceutical companies. And they know a whole bunch of stuff that the media and general public have absolutely no clue about. They have 350 pages of evidence. 350! Three Hundred and fifty!

Yet on the HTB you still have kool-aid drinkers thinking ASADA's entire case rests on the dosage regimes the players admitted to receiving with no other evidence. Essendon are gone.

logic demands that what you say is true, and that Workcare should nail them to the wall.... but one question: why hastn there been any such action from workcare to date? the 'pharmaceutical expirment' stuff has been in the public domain for 2 years already. Shouldn't it already have happened/be happening if it was ever going to happen? Normally it would have, right?

 

[Infamy]

logic demands that what you say is true, and that Workcare should nail them to the wall.... but one question: why hastn there been any such action from workcare to date? the 'pharmaceutical expirment' stuff has been in the public domain for 2 years already. Shouldn't it already have happened/be happening if it was ever going to happen? Normally it would have, right?

From memory their public comment was that they wanted to wait for the internal (i.e. AFL & ASADA) processes to run their course. They haven't said that they will step in after these have finished, but surely they need to.

 

[Livonski]

It should have been a WorkSafe issue from day one... in the scheme of things who care what ASADA think? or what the penalties are..... I want to know why substances were given to players that were not fit for human use and why young players were treated like lab rats.

Correct. And for all the hatred and abuse that Caro cops, that's exactly the argument she presented from day one.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Correct.
And for all the hatred and abuse that Caro cops, that's exactly the argument she presented from day one.

the more she cops...the more she is doing her job correctly...

 

[TigerTime3]

I'm back for my fortnightly update.

Have they been banned yet?

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

I'm back for my fortnightly update.

Have they been banned yet?

Trial is meant to be on December the 14th/15th (one of those). Bombers want to delay it January.

 

[jreesosb]

Why would any other organisation wait until now to get involved, are they ninjas?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Trial is meant to be on December the 14th/15th (one of those). Bombers want to delay it January.

Not quite Bazza:

1) efc is not a defendant in the hearing, so they are in no position to delay s**t. It's finally all about the players

2) no one has asked for a delay. The aflpa (not efc) has asked Asada to release all docs to them, something Asada is refusing, saying they will only release docs relevant to the prosecution position. The reports are saying if this isn't resolved one way or another a delay may result. Fwiw IMO this is just lawyers posturing for position on both sides, and it won't delay s**t

3) the hearing is expected to take three weeks, so any result is unlikely before jan anyway

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

I've been saying this for a while but the HTB don't want to hear about it. The evidence ASADA had in the interim report was staggering, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. ASADA know about the "pharmacologically experimental environment". They know about the "financials" of the program. They know the players were used as test subjects for Danky and Hird's experiments. They know they planned on using the results to market their drug to Chinese pharmaceutical companies. And they know a whole bunch of stuff that the media and general public have absolutely no clue about. They have 350 pages of evidence. 350! Three Hundred and fifty!

Yet on the HTB you still have kool-aid drinkers thinking ASADA's entire case rests on the dosage regimes the players admitted to receiving with no other evidence. Essendon are gone.

And Hird remains unpunished by his club and is set to be their head coach for 2015. WTF!

Is it any wonder why Thompson got jacked off and left.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

Thompson has used the media to portray himself as a sqeaky clean individual.
He is not as blameless as the media spin would suggest.

 

[AstroboyUK]

From memory their public comment was that they wanted to wait for the internal (i.e. AFL & ASADA) processes to run their course. They haven't said that they will step in after these have finished, but surely they need to.

the doubt I have is that Workcare and Workcare legal actions exist to protect workers/employees. If Workcare believe a workplace is unsafe or an employer is putting their employees at risk then they are utterly duty bound to act immediately. They cannot say: "sorry the mineshaft collapsed" two years after being told the employer wasn't maintaining the mine safely... just because they were waiting on some other legal action against the employer to be put 'out of the way'. An unsafe workplace must be investigated and reformed or shut down immediately.... so I would have thought they would have no option to 'wait' purely out of some kind of procedural convenience... particularly when the key personal of the dangerous employer are still in charge of the dangerous workplace. If they were going to act, but haven't for 2 years then there must be some kind of legislative or parliamentary committee/executive dispensation for them to postpone it... and if that was granted, would that be a matter of public record? (possibly not, I guess)

 

[Foley#41]

From memory their public comment was that they wanted to wait for the internal (i.e. AFL & ASADA) processes to run their course. They haven't said that they will step in after these have finished, but surely they need to.

It doesn't look like Workcover will penalize Essendon anyway, on the basis that the AFL already did it. From The Age in May:

The authority is understood to have resisted launching an investigation into the supplements scandal because of on-going ASADA and AFL investigations.

Punishments handed out already by the AFL that led to the suspension of coach James Hird and football boss Danny Corcoran are believed by senior VWA figures to be already harsher than what might be received in any successful prosecution of the club or individuals for OHS breaches.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

Place a $5 bet, engage in a soft as butter melee, drink a cup of coffee with a bikie boss and we'll take you to the cleaners and make an example of you splashing your name all over the place.

Take drugs or drug your entire team and we'll do everything in our power to protect you and sweep it under the carpet.

This is the thinking of the AFL, making a hard stand against drugs, not on our watch.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Place a $5 bet, engage in a soft as butter melee, drink a cup of coffee with a bikie boss and we'll take you to the cleaners and make an example of you splashing your name all over the place.

Take drugs or drug your entire team and we'll do everything in our power to protect you and sweep it under the carpet.

This is the thinking of the AFL, making a hard stand against drugs, not on our watch.

I dont mean this to sound harsh, but you are incredibly naive if you are disappointed by this

Players were allowed to self report to avoid third strikes for illicit drug use. If the AFL is willing to look the other way for someone using a crack pipe, you can be as sure as hell they will do it for PED's

The AFL did an "audit" of 17 clubs and determined all was good. Days later the Dees story broke. Three days for 17 clubs is a mockery. For a basic ISO 9001 audit, you are looking at 1-3 days just for one company site. Yet the AFL cleared 17 clubs in 3 days? Most places take more than three days just to get records out of archives.

Finally you have sanctions. Dees get busted for tanking, they lose the ability to hold a gaming licence, and they probably go under. So you find them not guilty of tanking, and fine them anyway. But they cant afford the fine, so you give them a wad of cash to pay for it. Then you punish the staff, but to minimize legal issues you let that staffer continue to work at the club.

Any of this sounding familiar? The AFL is just running to form with the EFC issue as they have with all other problems. Minimize contagion, if blame is needed focus on as few as possible, and sweep the rest under the carpet.

If the AFL was serious, those clubs who we have heard rumours about for years re: PED use would have had a microscope up their arse

 

[Tiger Toffee]

I dont mean this to sound harsh, but you are incredibly naive if you are disappointed by this

Players were allowed to self report to avoid third strikes for illicit drug use. If the AFL is willing to look the other way for someone using a crack pipe, you can be as sure as hell they will do it for PED's

The AFL did an "audit" of 17 clubs and determined all was good. Days later the Dees story broke. Three days for 17 clubs is a mockery. For a basic ISO 9001 audit, you are looking at 1-3 days just for one company site. Yet the AFL cleared 17 clubs in 3 days? Most places take more than three days just to get records out of archives.

Finally you have sanctions. Dees get busted for tanking, they lose the ability to hold a gaming licence, and they probably go under. So you find them not guilty of tanking, and fine them anyway. But they cant afford the fine, so you give them a wad of cash to pay for it. Then you punish the staff, but to minimize legal issues you let that staffer continue to work at the club.

Any of this sounding familiar? The AFL is just running to form with the EFC issue as they have with all other problems. Minimize contagion, if blame is needed focus on as few as possible, and sweep the rest under the carpet.

If the AFL was serious, those clubs who we have heard rumours about for years re: PED use would have had a microscope up their arse

Just one question, why are drug takers protected with protection of their names but the same is not applied to players who stupidly place a bet ?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Just one question, why are drug takers protected with protection of their names but the same is not applied to players who stupidly place a bet ?

because one charge kills a career, the other charge means s**t in our competition

And before you go "oh but they whack guys for $5 bets", its the AFL only whacking the guys who are too dumb to cover things up properly.

How long did it take them to ban mobiles from club rooms?

Why are gaming companies allowed to sponsor clubs?

I have no issue with the deal the AFL has made with gaming organizations to allow data sharing, but players and clubs should be allowed no direct contact with any punting org if they were serious

Any player with a clue can still punt on their games as long as they get a mate who can keep quite to do it for them (and my understanding is a lot do this). Only the idiots who ask mum to place bets or stupidly walking into a TAB get caught

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

and neery a peep from the AFL for a while now...setting the standard...

 

[Tiger_man322]

This whole thing has been disgraceful. Start to finish. Can we organize a petition to kick everybody out at AFL HQ and start fresh? With people who are not only focused on money?

 

[Rumballs]

I dont mean this to sound harsh, but you are incredibly naive if you are disappointed by this

Players were allowed to self report to avoid third strikes for illicit drug use. If the AFL is willing to look the other way for someone using a crack pipe, you can be as sure as hell they will do it for PED's

The AFL did an "audit" of 17 clubs and determined all was good. Days later the Dees story broke. Three days for 17 clubs is a mockery. For a basic ISO 9001 audit, you are looking at 1-3 days just for one company site. Yet the AFL cleared 17 clubs in 3 days? Most places take more than three days just to get records out of archives.

Finally you have sanctions. Dees get busted for tanking, they lose the ability to hold a gaming licence, and they probably go under. So you find them not guilty of tanking, and fine them anyway. But they cant afford the fine, so you give them a wad of cash to pay for it. Then you punish the staff, but to minimize legal issues you let that staffer continue to work at the club.

Any of this sounding familiar? The AFL is just running to form with the EFC issue as they have with all other problems. Minimize contagion, if blame is needed focus on as few as possible, and sweep the rest under the carpet.

If the AFL was serious, those clubs who we have heard rumours about for years re: PED use would have had a microscope up their arse

Illicit drug use has nothing to do with WADA/ASADA and can in many ways be considered a breach of players rights and privacy.
The AFLPA only agreed to it in the interests of players health and on the condition of anonymity and 3 strikes.
Many codes don't have any illicit drug code.

But beside that agree with all of my hat!

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Illicit drug use has nothing to do with WADA/ASADA and can in many ways be considered a breach of players rights and privacy.
The AFLPA only agreed to it in the interests of players health and on the condition of anonymity and 3 strikes.
Many codes don't have any illicit drug code.

But beside that agree with all of my hat!

Wasn't saying that

My point is the afl is willing to corrupt its own processes to minimize contagion, and has a history of it

It's illicit drugs policy is a classic example of this

 

[Rumballs]

Wasn't saying that

My point is the afl is willing to corrupt its own processes to minimize contagion, and has a history of it

It's illicit drugs policy is a classic example of this

I'm with you on the other examples, but how is the illicit drugs policy an example?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I'm with you on the other examples, but how is the illicit drugs policy an example?

Afl had a policy to out and ban players after three strikes. With players coming up to that point, the afl start allowing a loophole, self reporting. This meant a two strike player could go out on the pingers, say someone spiked their drink, and they get a cuddle from vlad.

Clubs had no idea this was happening, and how often players were using the loophole. Afl didn't want it fixed because they would have to start banning players. It was only closed after the whole farce become public with the collingwood issues.

So it is very typical, because the afl feigns concern for a problem, but actually aids in allowing an ongoing coverup of the problem