No Oppo Supporters The ASADA Thread... from a Tiger perspective

[Infamy]

A painkilling injection is injected to the site. The illegal injections would have been injected into the easiest vein. Pretty sure the senior experienced player could tell the difference between the two. You trying to tell me that the senior players didn't know what was going on?

The illegal injections were not intravenous, they were subcutaneous injections under the layer of skin on (most likely) their stomach.
This delivery method can also go towards determining what substance it was as different substances have different injection methods i.e. intravenous, intramuscular or subcutaneous.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

They are lawyers, it takes then five days to say hello, and ask how the new year down at Portsea went

Only when it's billable.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

ASADA's submission extends into fifth day

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/afl...n-extends-into-fifth-day-20150113-12ng2w.html

They got nothin

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

How do the Bumbers know/prove that they were injected with only the good stuff..
where are the records to prove that that really happened...

 

[Ned_Flanders]

How do the Bumbers know/prove that they were injected with only the good stuff..
where are the records to prove that that really happened...

Dank has them

He did similar at manly. One of the reasons he was let go there (other than killing the budget and engaging in expensive DNA testing for questionable benefit) was he wouldn't tell the club what he was giving them because it was his IP

WHether he still has them or not, who knows. They did exist though, remember he was running his bullshit "clinical trial" on AOD

Would the docs help or hinder efc, who knows though.

As to why he keeps them, the obvious theory is he was doping (with or without the players knowledge). Regardless of if this happened or not, I think he was also scamming Medicare and the club, which is his main reason for hiding what he has. He doesn't care about the players, or his own legit career. His goal is trying to stay out of jail IMO.

Again, all this could be happening concurrently with any doping program. It does explain why he's happy to be convicted without defending himself though (what does he care if asada ban him, it adds to his street cred with his real customers)

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

My point is how can the bumburs keep saying they were only injected with the good stuff when they have no evidence to back their claims...

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

My point is how can the bumburs keep saying they were only injected with the good stuff when they have no evidence to back their claims...

That's the whole case right there. If you are doing the right thing you keep records. F$&ken cheats

 

[Ned_Flanders]

My point is how can the bumburs keep saying they were only injected with the good stuff when they have no evidence to back their claims...

Playing devils advocate, they are believing what they were told at the time

 

[Ned_Flanders]

That's the whole case right there. If you are doing the right thing you keep records. F$&ken cheats

Ffs they had records. How do you think dank ran his little trial without them? He needed to know who got what and when to see what was getting the results we wanted (be it via compliant or non compliant substances)

Stupid thing that was done was allowing one guy to have all testing records, all invoice records (remember he was buying the mats off himself), and even all approval records. Then we have the joke of allowing off site testing, where everything is blind to the club.

The records may have proven guilt, but they may have also saved a big chunk of the list. For anything like this if there is a chance a player may have taken substance a or b, and it's unclear which was taken, it has to be assumed the worse case scenario occurred. This is why the players who said tb4 sounded familiar have been pinged.

Sadly it's not extremely rare. I've known a few companies who were screwed for breaking federal regs, becaus their pic for protecting their arse ****ed up, and as they had all records showing this, they simply shredded the lot (until recent,y a lot of secured docs remained hard copy only due to the ease of photoshopping them). They'd rather the company be fined and cop a control order, than be sacked for incompetence.

The really stupid thing is if they wanted to run a illegal program, the last thing you do is shred docs. You actually want the wall of paperwork so things look kosher for anything less than a forensic audit.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Ffs they had records. How do you think dank ran his little trial without them? He needed to know who got what and when to see what was getting the results we wanted (be it via compliant or non compliant substances)

Stupid thing that was done was allowing one guy to have all testing records, all invoice records (remember he was buying the mats off himself), and even all approval records. Then we have the joke of allowing off site testing, where everything is blind to the club.

The records may have proven guilt, but they may have also saved a big chunk of the list. For anything like this if there is a chance a player may have taken substance a or b, and it's unclear which was taken, it has to be assumed the worse case scenario occurred. This is why the players who said tb4 sounded familiar have been pinged.

Sadly it's not extremely rare. I've known a few companies who were screwed for breaking federal regs, becaus their pic for protecting their arse stuffed up, and as they had all records showing this, they simply shredded the lot (until recent,y a lot of secured docs remained hard copy only due to the ease of photoshopping them). They'd rather the company be fined and cop a control order, than be sacked for incompetence.

The really stupid thing is if they wanted to run a illegal program, the last thing you do is shred docs. You actually want the wall of paperwork so things look kosher for anything less than a forensic audit.

Correct , the whole thing is nonsense on stilts

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Correct , the whole thing is nonsense on stilts

No, the quote really is related to something else, but people seem excited about it because they like stilts I assume.

What this thing is, is a joke. It's a joke that multi million dollar companies are still run like suburban clubs. It's a joke people are more concerned by their side winning that natural justice prevailing. It's a joke that most likely 17 clubs have done sfa to make sure the same s**t cannot happen at their club.

As I mentioned a few weeks ago, not a single footy club, rugby club, cricket club (bar the MCG), or athletic club in the country has had its management systems certified. Carpet cleaning companies have to, but sports clubs are still in the dark ages.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

No, the quote really is related to something else, but people seem excited about it because they like stilts I assume.

What this thing is, is a joke. It's a joke that multi million dollar companies are still run like suburban clubs. It's a joke people are more concerned by their side winning that natural justice prevailing. It's a joke that most likely 17 clubs have done sfa to make sure the same s**t cannot happen at their club.

As I mentioned a few weeks ago, not a single footy club, rugby club, cricket club (bar the MCG), or athletic club in the country has had its management systems certified. Carpet cleaning companies have to, but sports clubs are still in the dark ages.

I emailed Benny Gale and Peggy O'Neil and told them I want my money back for my membership already paid up if these pricks gets off. I'm as surprised by all the clubs silence as you

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I emailed Benny Gale and Peggy O'Neil and told them I want my money back for my membership already paid up if these pricks gets off. I'm as surprised by all the clubs silence as you

Nah, that's the wrong approach. As corrupt as the afl is, it's a world better than when the clubs were intervening prior to the commish.

The question to ask them is what have we done to make sure this never happens at our club

It took us screwing up far too often to realize the coach and list manager shouldn't be able to trade first round picks with the nod from the powers that be. You'd hope for once we could learn from the mistakes of others before waiting to act

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Nah, that's the wrong approach. As corrupt as the afl is, it's a world better than when the clubs were intervening prior to the commish.

The question to ask them is what have we done to make sure this never happens at our club

It took us screwing up far too often to realize the coach and list manager shouldn't be able to trade first round picks with the nod from the powers that be. You'd hope for once we could learn from the mistakes of others before waiting to act

I don't think so . If these pricks get off I don't want anything to do with the whole sport so as bad as I feel for the Tigers losing a member as they've done nothing wrong it's a message to the AFL to get things right and punish the people who have rooted our game up the arse. I've given them to 31st of this month until I make my decision. If Hird is still coaching that club and the senior players are not punished then it's Rugby league for me.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I don't think so . If these pricks get off I don't want anything to do with the whole sport so as bad as I feel for the Tigers losing a member as they've done nothing wrong it's a message to the AFL to get things right and punish the people who have rooted our game up the arse. I've given them to 31st of this month until I make my decision. If Hird is still coaching that club and the senior players are not punished then it's Rugby league for me.

Bad call. The evidence is being tested, and while I'm angry it's a tribunal we will never hear the evidence of ourselves, if they deem it too pissweak to whack efc, and asada leave it at that, the players have every right to continue

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Bad call. The evidence is being tested, and while I'm angry it's a tribunal we will never hear the evidence of ourselves, if they deem it too pissweak to whack efc, and asada leave it at that, the players have every right to continue

Nah F$&k them , I've read the Ziggy report and they are all a bunch of cheating c!?ts and the game is a joke if they get off. They all knew the rules.

 

[richoatthedisco]

My point is how can the bumburs keep saying they were only injected with the good stuff when they have no evidence to back their claims...

They have Goodwin's text: "Bring the good stuff, buddy." That'll be defence exhibit A.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Nah F$&k them , I've read the Ziggy report and they are all a bunch of cheating c!?ts and the game is a joke if they get off. They all knew the rules.

Ziggy report didn't say they cheated, it said they were reckless and ran a cutting edge program with no risk management practices,

There is a big difference between incompetence and willful intent.

Fwiw I've said for a while the management and board need to pay a price for this, purely on risk management grounds. I don't mind however if they still come to games, or get a new gig later - people make mistakes and learn from them. Any of them shown to have known they were executing a prohibited program need to be banned for just that, and not for a short time. And I'm talking a total ban, no attendance at games or club grounds, so no cushy media or consultancy jobs.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

They have Goodwin's text: "Bring the good stuff, buddy." That'll be defence exhibit A.

Stuff like this is why I don't get why dank the mute is the only one being charged.

Not saying they are guilty (how the * would any of us know with the lack of info available), but there are many who at least need to have the questions asked

 

[ScallyWag1]

I emailed Benny Gale and Peggy O'Neil and told them I want my money back for my membership already paid up if these pricks gets off. I'm as surprised by all the clubs silence as you

Fair enough too. Whilst I won't go as far as cancelling my membership I am VERY disappointed in Richmond (and the rest of the clubs for that matter), and not only their silence since the 'blackest day in sport'.

I've stopped short of saying this in the past but bugger it. Essendon's 'program' the last few years prior to 2012 is hardly a secret in AFL and certain other circles.. Whilst I'm not about to reveal any of my sources (although if people get annoyed and I'm pressed by a mod I will to one of them), suffice to say plenty of people knew all about what the bombers were up to for a long time before they 'voluntarily' invited an investigation..

At least Carlton tried to be pro-active with their little covert operation recording Alavi.. Most of the other clubs sat on their hands. Now whether that is because they don't want a light shined on their own activities I don't know (the people I've spoken to maintain that their club programs are above board), more likely the clubs told the AFL and Dimwit did what he did best..

 

[nut]

I too sent similar email and still haven't received a reply...
RFC_Official

 

[_Wang_]

I too sent similar email and still haven't received a reply...
RFC_Official

same

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Ffs they had records. How do you think dank ran his little trial without them? He needed to know who got what and when to see what was getting the results we wanted (be it via compliant or non compliant substances)

Stupid thing that was done was allowing one guy to have all testing records, all invoice records (remember he was buying the mats off himself), and even all approval records. Then we have the joke of allowing off site testing, where everything is blind to the club.

The records may have proven guilt, but they may have also saved a big chunk of the list. For anything like this if there is a chance a player may have taken substance a or b, and it's unclear which was taken, it has to be assumed the worse case scenario occurred. This is why the players who said tb4 sounded familiar have been pinged.

Sadly it's not extremely rare. I've known a few companies who were screwed for breaking federal regs, becaus their pic for protecting their arse stuffed up, and as they had all records showing this, they simply shredded the lot (until recent,y a lot of secured docs remained hard copy only due to the ease of photoshopping them). They'd rather the company be fined and cop a control order, than be sacked for incompetence.

The really stupid thing is if they wanted to run a illegal program, the last thing you do is shred docs. You actually want the wall of paperwork so things look kosher for anything less than a forensic audit.

Very naive view IMO, you really think that if Dank had records that proved Essendon didn't use PED's they wouldn't have taken him to court to get said records back? He was an employee of EFC after all these records would be the property of EFC they are entitled to them. Dank has also stated that Essendon had copies of all the records but somehow all the records showing what they actually took have gone missing. Lastly, how difficult would it be if they purchased the good Thymosin to find out where they purchased from and get invoices, delivery dockets etc from that supplier and present to ASADA, the reason they cant do this is because it doesnt exist.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Very naive view IMO, you really think that if Dank had records that proved Essendon didn't use PED's they wouldn't have taken him to court to get said records back? He was an employee of EFC after all these records would be the property of EFC they are entitled to them. Dank has also stated that Essendon had copies of all the records but somehow all the records showing what they actually took have gone missing. Lastly, how difficult would it be if they purchased the good Thymosin to find out where they purchased from and get invoices, delivery dockets etc from that supplier and present to ASADA, the reason they cant do this is because it doesnt exist.

Did you actually read what I said? I said nothing about have records to clear efc, I said he had records. In fact, I also suggested the records could help fry certain players potentially.

Problem with going to court, is dank has already signed a dec saying he has none. What grounds are they going to court on, and what evidence do they have to support the claim

There are records, he used them at manly and wouldn't let them access them. To have none, how does he do his aod trial, his stock transfers between what he bought from Alavi and sold to efc. All of this however would burn him if the rumours of Medicare fraud are correct (and my suspicion of sales fraud to efc). Dank IMO would have shredded everything he had the minute he knew about the acc investigation

The fact efc had no server backups, and no requirements on central storage is embarrassing, and yet another contributor to this mess. Ffs they didn't even mandate the need for stock controls until mid season

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Did you actually read what I said? I said nothing about have records to clear efc, I said he had records. In fact, I also suggested the records could help fry certain players potentially.

Problem with going to court, is dank has already signed a dec saying he has none. What grounds are they going to court on, and what evidence do they have to support the claim

There are records, he used them at manly and wouldn't let them access them. To have none, how does he do his aod trial, his stock transfers between what he bought from Alavi and sold to efc. All of this however would burn him if the rumours of Medicare fraud are correct (and my suspicion of sales fraud to efc). Dank IMO would have shredded everything he had the minute he knew about the acc investigation

The fact efc had no server backups, and no requirements on central storage is embarrassing, and yet another contributor to this mess. Ffs they didn't even mandate the need for stock controls until mid season

You said "The records may have proven guilt, but they may have also saved a big chunk of the list." it was that quote which I was responding to sorry if that wasn't clear.

I think the rest of your post above has valid points (especially the Medicare fraud part, hadn't really taken that into account), but I still believe that if EFC thought Dank had records that would clear them they would be fighting tooth and nail to get these documents produced and the fact they aren't doesn't bode too well for what took place there IMO.