The facts of life are conservative

[Dan26]

"The facts of life are conservative" is a quote by Margaret Thatcher. I happen to agree with this quote wholeheartedly.

What do you think these facts are and do you agree with this statement?

I'll start.

The world, is essentially, an imperfect place. That's a fact. Those that try to create perfection and equality through government, end up destroying it.

 

[Aed0s]

I concur. Meritocracy, not equality, is the solution.

 

[Floor Pie]

Yeah, equality would have happened eventually without laws telling us to treat other humans, as humans.
...

 

[John]

Conservatism is to blame for ISIS by not realising change is inevitable.

 

[Richard Pryor]

This is the most half-assed flamebait I've ever seen.

The way I see conservatism (which is probably incorrect) is that, at its core it is about defending the status quo. This does make the facts of life (within the status quo) conservative, and in a lot of ways makes conservatism a good thing.

But conservatism can only be as good as the status quo is.

Essentially neither progressiveness or conservatism is entirely good or bad, they are only as good/bad as the specific issues they are arguing. On gay marriage, conservatism is 'bad', on, say, a carbon tax progressiveness is bad.

Both ideologies are necessary parts of political debate, because in some cases the status quo needs to defending, in others it needs criticising.

 

[Gough]

Sadly, I don't think it is.

 

[samFFC]

Depends on what you define as "the facts of life".

By definition, progressivism always 'wins' in the long term. Some people identify a problem --> advocate --> society realises the problem --> does something about it --> society changes.

Given that the status quo fundamentally changes year-on-year, or decade-on-decade, arguably conservatism is always the reactive side of the ledger.

If you define "the facts of life" as life as imperfect, life is unfair etc. then you could make the argument. However, by the same token, generally individuals disagree with significant imperfection in the world/inequality and hope to improve things. Hence why people donate money, volunteer their time, etc.. On the whole, people see problems and want them fixed.

 

[Richard Pryor]

Depends on what you define as "the facts of life".

By definition, progressivism always 'wins' in the long term. Some people identify a problem --> advocate --> society realises the problem --> does something about it --> society changes.

Given that the status quo fundamentally changes year-on-year, or decade-on-decade, arguably conservatism is always the reactive side of the ledger.

If you define "the facts of life" as life as imperfect, life is unfair etc. then you could make the argument. However, by the same token, generally individuals disagree with significant imperfection in the world/inequality and hope to improve things. Hence why people donate money, volunteer their time, etc.. On the whole, people see problems and want them fixed.

Interestingly, the people advocating everyone gets over life being unfair are usually treated very fairly by life.

 

[kickazz]

The world, is essentially, an imperfect place. That's a fact. Those that try to create perfection and equality through government, end up destroying it.

You forgot to add "That's an opinion, not a fact" after that last sentence.

 

[kickazz]

Dan26 do you honestly think governments are trying to achieve perfection? Surely that is a poor assumption to make. Governments aim for incrememtal improvements to society in my opinion, (well that's the idea, a lot of self serving seems to happen too).
It is foolishly unrealistic to strive for perfection, and to quote the impossibility of attaining perfection as some sort of rationale to get rid of government and apply jungle law is a cop out and a horribly uneducated and unintelligent application of logic.

 

[kickazz]

On the specific thread title I disagree. Stalin also tried to claim similar, arguing the West was plagued by subjectivity. Just as stupid really.

In the end, facts are just that - facts. They are not of the Left nor the Right. If the facts of life were truly conservative, why has there been so much progress? Or, if the facts of life were progressive, why are we still stuck where we are and not fulfulling our potential. See how silly it is to attribute facts to one 'team' or another.

Facts are just facts. Claiming they are on your team is just a lazy way of saying "I couldn't be stuffed arguing a proper case for my assertion, so just believe me, because the facts say I am right"

 

[Long Live HFC]

nope. reality has a liberal bias.

 

[The Speaker]

The world, is essentially, an imperfect place.

Yes.

Those that try to create perfection and equality through government, end up destroying it.

No.

 

[Dan26]

Given that the facts of life are conservative... what are those facts. Here are a couple:

1. Behaviour has consequences
Leftards claim they're more compassionate. They want the government to help the poor and educate the ignorant and save the planet, blah, blah, blah. But, where the nanny state has prevailed, these policies have destroyed the character of the people - creating dependency. Look at the blacks in the USA, the Aborigines here. The left would have you believe that behaviour has no consequence? Made a bad decision? Here, have some welfare.

2. Life is not fair

Any others?

 

[Richard Pryor]

Given that the facts of life are conservative... what are those facts. Here are a couple:

1. Behaviour has consequences
Leftards claim they're more compassionate. They want the government to help the poor and educate the ignorant and save the planet, blah, blah, blah. But, where the nanny state has prevailed, these policies have destroyed the character of the people - creating dependency. Look at the blacks in the USA, the Aborigines here. The left would have you believe that behaviour has no consequence? Made a bad decision? Here, have some welfare.

2. Life is not fair

Any others?

Is this intentional self parody?

Leftard? Are you 14?

What you're saying doesn't really generate discussion either seeing as it's been talked to death by everyone. If you honestly hold these views no-one here is going to change them if the vast amount of existing discussion hasn't, and seeing as your not really backing anything your saying up this seems more like ranting than discussing.

 

[Dan26]

Depends on what you define as "the facts of life".

By definition, progressivism always 'wins' in the long term. Some people identify a problem --> advocate --> society realises the problem --> does something about it --> society changes.

Given that the status quo fundamentally changes year-on-year, or decade-on-decade, arguably conservatism is always the reactive side of the ledger. .

This is probably the bottom line. The dark side of human nature is mean, greedy, controlling, lustful, lazy and selfish. It makes us want something for nothing. When we give into our dark nature, it makes us want everything for nothing. And progressive government is the serpent with the apple. Leftism promises perfectibility at a bargain basement price.

Another fact, showing that the facts of life are conservative: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Look at the blacks. Wow.

 

[Dan26]

Look at the blacks. Wow.

Wow, what? can you think of a better example of left-wing damage than the black population of the United States becoming dependent on the state?

Or should I have used the term African Americans?

 

[John]

Missionary position?

 

[Power Raid]

a bit of left and a bit of right for me

one can't survive too long without the other

 

[Richard Pryor]

a bit of left and a bit of right for me

one can't survive too long without the other

Yin and Yang. Empathy tempered with pragmatism.

 

[John]

The Church of England?

 

[DarwinRoo]

So every black person in the United States is dependent on welfare?

No generalisation there at all. Not surprised at all that you are conservative.

 

[John]

The Carlton Club?

 

[kickazz]

This is probably the bottom line. The dark side of human nature is mean, greedy, controlling, lustful, lazy and selfish. It makes us want something for nothing. When we give into our dark nature, it makes us want everything for nothing. And progressive government is the serpent with the apple. Leftism promises perfectibility at a bargain basement price.

Another fact, showing that the facts of life are conservative: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

That's not a fact, dude - that is an idiom.

As for the rest, not even sure what you are talking about? Who from the Left promises such hogwash that you assert?