The facts of life are conservative

[The Coup]

I am continually surprised at how people can be convinced to vote against their own best interests. But then, people are aspirational by nature, it seems. The lure of membership to the class above is a powerful carrot, not matter how unrealistic.

Brainwashing and avertising. It works better on stupid people.

 

[Floor Pie]

Brainwashing and avertising. It works better on stupid people.

Are you trying to say that continuous reinforcement, and repetition, can condition a mind?
That will never work!
That will never work!
That will never work!
That will never work!
That will never work!


#ABCistheenemy



Lucky there isn't anything that can lead to a decrease in education happening at the moment!

 

[Gough]

Problem with conservatives is they have no sense of humour. P.J. aside, find me a funny conservative.

 

[pokerspiv]

Problem with conservatives is they have no sense of humour. P.J. aside, find me a funny conservative.

Modern conservatives defend the status quo. Most political comedy revolves around lampooning the status quo. That's why you rarely hear from conservative comedians. There are however plenty of libertarian comedians, and always have been.

Trey Parker, Matt Stone, Jay Leno, Colin Quinn, Adam Corrolla, Norm MacDonald and George Carlin are some to come to mind off the top of my head. P.J. O.Rourke himself is arguably more libertarian than conservative too.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

George Carlin is a what?

And Jay Leno and funny don't belong in the same sentence.

 

[pokerspiv]

George Carlin is a what?

And Jay Leno and funny don't belong in the same sentence.

Super post

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Super post

You think George Carlin is a conservative?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Ok, you were talking about libertarians. He wasnt a libertarian from what Ive seen.

 

[The Coup]

Modern conservatives defend the status quo. Most political comedy revolves around lampooning the status quo. That's why you rarely hear from conservative comedians. There are however plenty of libertarian comedians, and always have been.

Trey Parker, Matt Stone, Jay Leno, Colin Quinn, Adam Corrolla, Norm MacDonald and George Carlin are some to come to mind off the top of my head. P.J. O.Rourke himself is arguably more libertarian than conservative too.

Norm McDonald and Jay Leno aren't libertarian in the same way a fake pro-billionaire organisation like say, the IPA is libertarian.

They both supported the writer's trade union strikes for example. They're more aligned with anarchism and elements of the progressive left with their comedy than the right.

I'd argue similar for Stone and Parker, they're libertarians in the sense they're anti big government. They appear more like an anti corporate Republican, like Teddy Roosevelt.

As you said, the right and conservative politics (including modern "libertarian" pro-corporate and corporate funded groups like the IPA or Tea Party) is about enforcing the status quo and maintaining wealth for the existing elite, and comedy is for people that are smart enough to see how bullshit the status quo is.

 

[PaddyO]

Conservatism at it's core accepts humans are flawed. Take religion, for example. Now I'm an atheist myself, but I respect people's right to have freedom of religion, and freedom of thought, even if they're almost certainly wrong. This is because you can't force people to believe in no God as I do. You've got to give them the freedom to believe what they want to believe. If you force it onto people, they will reject it, because - you guessed it - people are flawed. Humans need time to come around to ideas.

Progessive/Liberal ideology is not based on research and observable outcomes at all. It theorizes what those outcomes are, and implements policies based on an idea, without assuming that humans are flawed. That is what many of the left are good conceptual thinkers, but HOPELESS at dealing with actual problems. The pink batts fiasco, and the wayward, impulsive stimulus spending by Rudd (giving cheques to dead people) are perfect examples.

Same with the live cattle industry ban, after an ABC video showed mistreatment of livestock. A "theoretical" good decision. After all, if cattle is being mistreated you take action, right? On the face of it, okay. But if you dig deeper it was completely the wrong thing to do, a stupid decision, with little thought, or idea of how to deal with this problem.

That's why the left, usually aren't much good at governing, but are excellent in opposition. They can't deal with real-life problems, but are good at coming up with ideas.

That's a generalisation of course. The Hawke government was a good government, but generally, the left don't govern well.

It's a well worn cliché, but probably true, that the Coalition in Australia, are really the default, natural party of government.

This is quite an interesting post, and I'll admit straight up that I'm a political lightweight (with left leanings). But I've often wondered why a new party hasn't been formed that isn't right or left wing, but a balanced combination of both. Quite conservative economically, but with a real social conscience. Combine the best economists with the best ethicists and a mixture of other specialities and allow them to govern (if they can win power). Seems simple to me, but someone smarter will tell me why it can't happen.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

This is quite an interesting post, and I'll admit straight up that I'm a political lightweight (with left leanings). But I've often wondered why a new party hasn't been formed that isn't right or left wing, but a balanced combination of both. Quite conservative economically, but with a real social conscience. Combine the best economists with the best ethicists and a mixture of other specialities and allow them to govern (if they can win power). Seems simple to me, but someone smarter will tell me why it can't happen.

To be honest, I think you've described the ALP.

 

[PaddyO]

To be honest, I think you've described the ALP.

Not sure about that.

Thinking more of a completely new party. One that doesn't come from the silver spoon or the trade unions, but one that is formed specifically for governing. Form it with great economists, great ethicists and great "get stuff done" people.

I realise that with the way we vote it'll never happen, or at least not quickly.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Not sure about that.

Thinking more of a completely new party. One that doesn't come from the silver spoon or the trade unions, but one that is formed specifically for governing. Form it with great economists, great ethicists and great "get stuff done" people.

I realise that with the way we vote it'll never happen, or at least not quickly.

That sounds 'elitist' to be honest. It doesnt have a base.

The ALP has the unions as a base, the Libs have their cultural conservatives.

 

[PaddyO]

That sounds 'elitist' to be honest. It doesnt have a base.

The ALP has the unions as a base, the Libs have their cultural conservatives.

Might sound it but it's not intended to be!

 

[The Coup]

PaddyO you pretty much described The Greens except in relation to economics where they are more progressive/socialist rather than conservative. They'd be more in line with what Norway or Sweden produce (i.e. they're better than the ALP or LNP)

Just a collection of mostly professionals from a very wide variety of occupations (they would be far the most "real world" experienced party base in Australia) with a clear policy platform and ideology.

 

[JackOutback]

To be honest, I think you've described the ALP.

The ALP is now a centre right party...it might have come for a left background, but it left that behind in the 1980s. Even some of its social policies are straight out of the right wing playbook. I think what you are describing is something akin to the Scandinavian countries. It would be nice to see such a party break the stranglehold of right leaning parties in Australia, but sadly, I think it would take decades for it to make an impact. Australia is currently a very conservative country.

 

[pokerspiv]

Ok, you were talking about libertarians. He wasnt a libertarian from what Ive seen.

It's encouraging at least that you eventually read my post an hour after replying to it.

 

[pokerspiv]

This is quite an interesting post, and I'll admit straight up that I'm a political lightweight (with left leanings). But I've often wondered why a new party hasn't been formed that isn't right or left wing, but a balanced combination of both. Quite conservative economically, but with a real social conscience. Combine the best economists with the best ethicists and a mixture of other specialities and allow them to govern (if they can win power). Seems simple to me, but someone smarter will tell me why it can't happen.

Already has.

http://ldp.org.au/index.php/philosophy

 

[MrCharisma]

But I've often wondered why a new party hasn't been formed that isn't right or left wing, but a balanced combination of both.

Because more often than not there is no middle ground. What's the 'balanced' view on gay marriage? What's the 'balanced' view on abortion?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

It's encouraging at least that you eventually read my post an hour after replying to it.

You should be over the moon you got my attention.

 

[The Coup]

Because more often than not there is no middle ground. What's the 'balanced' view on gay marriage? What's the 'balanced' view on abortion?

Yes, the obsession with neutrality and balance is a great way to ensure people remain focused on 'exposing' biased people (as if everyone isn't biased) or being centrist (being centrist essentially means supporting the status quo).

Conservatives have a clear ideology and point of view. If you want a historical and feeling based approach you go here.

Socialists and progressive do too. If you want an academic approach to issues you'd go here.

Even facsists do. If you want a ridiculous approach go here.

Centrists have nfi what they are on about because they don't have a way of viewing the world that separates them from existing ideology.

 

[madmug]

Problem with conservatives is they have no sense of humour. P.J. aside, find me a funny conservative.

Watch Fox news. I laugh at them all the time. They are nuts!!

 

[Schache It Off]

The entire point of the Thatcher quote above is that the free market harnesses the human propensity for greed and uses it to make the world better.

Leftism tries to oppose it, which works about as well as trying to get people to stop taking drugs.

Left wing politics is more about force and obedience/dependance on the state. Of course they will oppose it.
Like I said before, they are the real fascists.

 

[Schache It Off]

Firstly, I'm a liberal. I see the role of the State as going no further than protecting individual liberty from harm from others. People should be free to pursue their economic freedoms as much as they are free to pursue any other freedom. In this I side with JS Mill.

I also see capitalism as the best means to bring prosperity to the majority. Middle class wealth and higher standards of living all round are the natural extensions of a regulated free market. In this I side with Adam Smith.

I dont support an unregulated free market, anymore than I support an unregulated road system, or an unregulated criminal justice system. The State has a duty to regulate the markets as much as needed to protect the individial from harm from others. Prohibitions on price fixing, cartels, misleading conduct, unscupulous trade practices and so forth are no different from prohibitions on theft, murder and other such laws that regulate people from committing harm on others.

I know many people who are critical of capitalism (fairly in many cases) but conveniently ignore the benefits of a capitalist market economy.

If given the choice, I know what side of the Iron curtain I would prefer to be born in.

Well, you are more sane than 99% of the the left wing posters on this site, so well done.

 

[The Coup]

Left wing politics is more about force and obedience/dependance on the state. Of course they will oppose it.
Like I said before, they are the real fascists.

Yeah except for all the actual fascists in history that are right wingers, those left wingers are the real fascists. My conscience is clean on the right side of politics with you Tripwire.