The facts of life are conservative

[mottrain]

Yeah except for all the actual fascists in history that are right wingers, those left wingers are the real fascists. My conscience is clean on the right side of politics with you Tripwire.

Fascism was seen as a third way.

 

[Malifice]

Fascism was seen as a third way.

Combined socialist and capitalist economics and a repudiation of liberalism for an embrace of ultra nationalism, and far Right populism.

The status quo werent just actively supported by the State, minorities were actively persecuted and in many cases outright killed.

There was nothing left wing or 'liberal' about Hitler, Franco or Musolini.

 

[The Coup]

Fascism was seen as a third way.

By complete ******* idiots, yes

 

[The Coup]

Combined socialist and capitalist economics and a repudiation of liberalism for an embrace of ultra nationalism, and far Right populism.

The status quo werent just actively supported by the State, minorities were actively persecuted and in many cases outright killed.

There was nothing left wing or 'liberal' about Hitler, Franco or Musolini.

Or Stalin, Mao.

 

[skilts]

As with a lot of what Thatcher said, the quote in the thread title is incomprehensible. No surprise that Dan 26 embraces such waffle.

 

[medusala]

As with a lot of what Thatcher said, the quote in the thread title is incomprehensible.

She was despised by so called "intellectuals". Can't have been all that bad.

The letter they wrote to a newspaper en masse re her wicked ways was very amusing in hindsight.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Not sure about that.

Thinking more of a completely new party. One that doesn't come from the silver spoon or the trade unions, but one that is formed specifically for governing. Form it with great economists, great ethicists and great "get stuff done" people.

I realise that with the way we vote it'll never happen, or at least not quickly.

Sounds like the Hawke/Keating government where they modernised the economy, got the unions on board and still had progressive social policies. They were similar to Thatcher in deregulating the economy but carried none of her brutility

 

[Schraderbrau]

PaddyO you pretty much described The Greens except in relation to economics where they are more progressive/socialist rather than conservative. They'd be more in line with what Norway or Sweden produce (i.e. they're better than the ALP or LNP)

Just a collection of mostly professionals from a very wide variety of occupations (they would be far the most "real world" experienced party base in Australia) with a clear policy platform and ideology.

The greens are a disgrace of a party. they actually don't believe in economic growth which seems pretty ridiculous to me. They also have really stupid policies which they can get away with because they have 0 chance of being elected and actually having to implement them which is basically cheating imo. Lastly anyone voting for the greens is really just taking a vote off labour so if you have interest in the libs not being in government don't vote for the greens

 

[JackOutback]

The greens are a disgrace of a party. they actually don't believe in economic growth which seems pretty ridiculous to me. They also have really stupid policies which they can get away with because they have 0 chance of being elected and actually having to implement them which is basically cheating imo. Lastly anyone voting for the greens is really just taking a vote off labour so if you have interest in the libs not being in government don't vote for the greens

To be fair, infinite economic growth on a planet of finite resources seems pretty ridiculous as well.

 

[Mningasimisonda]

"The facts of life are conservative" is a quote by Margaret Thatcher. I happen to agree with this quote wholeheartedly.

That's why I don't pay much attention to the facts of life.

 

[pokerspiv]

Sounds like the Hawke/Keating government where they modernised the economy, got the unions on board and still had progressive social policies. They were similar to Thatcher in deregulating the economy but carried none of her brutility

More accurate to say that they were exactly the same as Thatcher, but because they were on the left side of politics they didn't have to put up with deranged opposition from the left.

Hawke and Keating's policies made Thatcher look mild.

 

[Malifice]

More accurate to say that they were exactly the same as Thatcher, but because they were on the left side of politics they didn't have to put up with deranged opposition from the left.

Hawke and Keating's policies made Thatcher look mild.

I wouldnt go that far. Fair to say Australia and the UK were at different places too.

 

[pokerspiv]

I wouldnt go that far. Fair to say Australia and the UK were at different places too.

And they still were after Thatcher and Hawke were gone, the UK still being in a much more socialist state than Australia.

The frenzy of hate directed towards her was mostly because she was from the wrong party. Labor in Australia (and Roger Douglas in New Zealand) made all the same sorts of economic reforms without having to put up with people burning effigies in the street or trying to kill them with car bombs.

Every developed country in the world was moving towards a more market-based economy in the 1980's. Singling out Thatcher was extremely irrational.

 

[Malifice]

And they still were after Thatcher and Hawke were gone, the UK still being in a much more socialist state than Australia.

Socialism isnt left wing any more than capitalism isnt right wing.

 

[pokerspiv]

Socialism isnt left wing any more than capitalism isnt right wing.

Yes, it is. The terms left-wing and right-wing derive from the seating arrangements in parliament before and after the French revolution, the original socalist revolution. If left-wing doesn't mean socialist then the term has no meaning whatsoever.

 

[Gough]

Maggie nuked the unions in Britain, something the conservative side of politics has never managed to do here.

 

[Malifice]

Yes, it is. The terms left-wing and right-wing derive from the seating arrangements in parliament before and after the French revolution, the original socalist revolution. If left-wing doesn't mean socialist then the term has no meaning whatsoever.

Would you call me left wing? Im no socialist.

Would you call Hitler right wing? He was.

 

[Chief]

If left-wing doesn't mean socialist then the term has no meaning whatsoever.

The penny drops.

 

[JackOutback]

And they still were after Thatcher and Hawke were gone, the UK still being in a much more socialist state than Australia.

I think this point is arguable...there are some areas in which the UK is more socialist than Australia (the NHS, social housing) but many areas where the opposite is true (inequality, welfare).

 

[madmug]

I think this point is arguable...there are some areas in which the UK is more socialist than Australia (the NHS, social housing) but many areas where the opposite is true (inequality, welfare).

Does the UK spend as much on its middle class welfare as we do? Anybody?

 

[SpuriousPea]

Modern conservatives defend the status quo. Most political comedy revolves around lampooning the status quo. That's why you rarely hear from conservative comedians. There are however plenty of libertarian comedians, and always have been.

Trey Parker, Matt Stone, Jay Leno, Colin Quinn, Adam Corrolla, Norm MacDonald and George Carlin are some to come to mind off the top of my head. P.J. O.Rourke himself is arguably more libertarian than conservative too.

Could probably add Doug Stanhope, Bill Burr, Joe Rogan, Patrice O'Neal and Nick DiPaolo.

 

[Father Jack]

Conservatism = living in fear
Liberalism = living in hope

is that a simplistic enough view?

 

[Old Spice]

"The facts of life are conservative" is a quote by Margaret Thatcher. I happen to agree with this quote wholeheartedly.

What do you think these facts are and do you agree with this statement?

I'll start.

The world, is essentially, an imperfect place. That's a fact. Those that try to create perfection and equality through government, end up destroying it.

This is hilarious.

I assume you mean in the Greco-Judean-Christian tradition. Here's some of what we should have retained: slavery, serfdom, absolute monarchy, Papal butt-******* of peasants, gas, dial-up internet, no public education, 6th grade education, no expansion of tertiary education to talent over money, heavily protected slippers, meat-safes, Gregorian chants, choral music, classical music, big-band, Bing Crosby, Daryl Summers, John Farnham.

Problems in society are always a fact but a progressive will march the human race forward to overcome those problems and provide something superior while frightened old maids will hide in the shadows and talk about the Golden Age which they cling to like a neurosis. Put on your slippers.

Get a grip you young fogey.

 

[Old Spice]

The Golden Age, always in perpetuity.

 

[madmug]

This is hilarious.

I assume you mean in the Greco-Judean-Christian tradition. Here's some of what we should have retained: slavery, serfdom, absolute monarchy, Papal butt-******* of peasants, gas, dial-up internet, no public education, 6th grade education, no expansion of tertiary education to talent over money, heavily protected slippers, meat-safes, Gregorian chants, choral music, classical music, big-band, Bing Crosby, Daryl Summers, John Farnham.

Problems in society are always a fact but a progressive will march the human race forward to overcome those problems and provide something superior while frightened old maids will hide in the shadows and talk about the Golden Age which they cling to like a neurosis. Put on your slippers.

Get a grip you young fogey.

Conservative means maintaining the status quo, as long as I'm alright Jack!

So I say, bring on the revolution!!

I mean what have the Romans ever done for us?