The future - Cats v Pies

[Claude Balls]

Jesse Hogan? Bontempelli? Stringer? Cripps?

None of them are elite yet. You have to get at least some runs on the board to go with your potential before you are actually in the elite bracket of the competition.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

None of them are elite yet. You have to get at least some runs on the board to go with your potential before you are actually in the elite bracket of the competition.

Debatable. They're all producing elite stats on a pretty consistent basis, and comfortably pass the eye test.

 

[Claude Balls]

Debatable. They're all producing elite stats on a pretty consistent basis, and comfortably pass the eye test.

2015:

Bontempelli: 20.5 possies per game (9.7 contested), 4.4 clearances, 5.5 tackles

Patrick Cripps: 23 (13.6), 6.7, 5.1

Stringer: 14.2, 3.5 marks, 2.6 goals

Hogan: 13.2, 6.8, 2.2

Far from "elite stats on a pretty consistent basis". The only one of these blokes who is verging on elite status based on their stats is Cripps. 2.6 goals a game from Stringer is very good, but it's not enough to call him elite.

They'll probably all be elite in time, but the point I was trying to make in my original post is that it takes an exceptional (and disciplined) talent to reach the elite category by the age of 21.

 

[King Bont]

2015:

Bontempelli: 20.5 possies per game (9.7 contested), 4.4 clearances, 5.5 tackles

Patrick Cripps: 23 (13.6), 6.7, 5.1

Stringer: 14.2, 3.5 marks, 2.6 goals

Hogan: 13.2, 6.8, 2.2

Far from "elite stats on a pretty consistent basis". The only one of these blokes who is verging on elite status based on their stats is Cripps. 2.6 goals a game from Stringer is very good, but it's not enough to call him elite.

They'll probably all be elite in time, but the point I was trying to make in my original post is that it takes an exceptional (and disciplined) talent to reach the elite category by the age of 21.

I think with the likes of bontempelli in particular, you have to look further than the simple stats that of kicks and handballs. The impact Bont has had with inside 50's and meteres gained is certainly elite. Advanced stats will give you a better indication

 

[juss]

Like the young talent of the Pies better.

 

[Gosha]

Debatable. They're all producing elite stats on a pretty consistent basis, and comfortably pass the eye test.

There's probably about 15 - 20 'elite' players in the competition. The ones you mentioned are well off it.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

There's probably about 15 - 20 'elite' players in the competition. The ones you mentioned are well off it.

Depends how you define elite.

 

[Gosha]

Depends how you define elite.

Yeah, that's true. I don't think your criteria is very stringent if you're placing those three in there though. However, give em a couple of years and they'll probably all be top five.

 

[Claude Balls]

Depends how you define elite.

You're saying you have low standards?

 

[Claude Balls]

I think with the likes of bontempelli in particular, you have to look further than the simple stats that of kicks and handballs. The impact Bont has had with inside 50's and meteres gained is certainly elite. Advanced stats will give you a better indication

Yeah, I've watched the Bont and he's already a very good player. So are all the players mentioned whose stats I pulled.

I guess it comes down to how you define elite, as the other poster said. IMO, as talented, AND as productive as those those guys already are at 20, 21 years of age, they're simply not in the elite bracket of players in the AFL yet.

Hardly any players are. Chris Judd 2004 is perhaps the only player I can recall being truly elite by 21. Maybe Selwood in 2009, but not as good as Judd 2004. J. Brown was elite in some aspects of the game by 2002, though his reputation outweighed his output.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

You're saying you have low standards?

Yes, but that's not the point of this discussion.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Well I think it's been settled, our youth advantage over Geelong is completely dominant. In fact other than expansion clubs, I don't think any team comes close to use.
'
From tonights game Crisp, Adams and De Goey were all in the top 4 in disposals for us.

As for this season all of these players are 23 or under and have played regularly or been best 22 and shown something for us:

- Maynard
- De Goey
- Moore
- Scharenberg
- Ramsay
- Grundy
- Broomhead
- Crisp
- Adams
- Oxley
- Witts
- Elliot
- Marsh
- Langdon
- Williams
- Fasolo

 

[Adam H]

Well I think it's been settled, our youth advantage over Geelong is completely dominant. In fact other than expansion clubs, I don't think any team comes close to use.
'
From tonights game Crisp, Adams and De Goey were all in the top 4 in disposals for us.

As for this season all of these players are 23 or under and have played regularly or been best 22 and shown something for us:

- Maynard
- De Goey
- Moore
- Scharenberg
- Ramsay
- Grundy
- Broomhead
- Crisp
- Adams
- Oxley
- Witts
- Elliot
- Marsh
- Langdon
- Williams
- Fasolo

Not really Geelong missing three of there four starting mids. Playing two blokes in Vardy and Menzel back after long periods of time off.

Geelong has it.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Well I think it's been settled, our youth advantage over Geelong is completely dominant. In fact other than expansion clubs, I don't think any team comes close to use.
'
From tonights game Crisp, Adams and De Goey were all in the top 4 in disposals for us.

As for this season all of these players are 23 or under and have played regularly or been best 22 and shown something for us:

- Maynard
- De Goey
- Moore
- Scharenberg
- Ramsay
- Grundy
- Broomhead
- Crisp
- Adams
- Oxley
- Witts
- Elliot
- Marsh
- Langdon
- Williams
- Fasolo

Ahem...

 

[Adam H]

Ahem...

Lose by 15 goals one week win the next and now there the best.

Don't you understand

 

[Lethality]

Geelong are in some deep doo doo with a serious lack of key defenders. Lonergan is into his 30s and Taylor is fading quickly.

 

[Lethality]

lol when you lose burgoyne, lake and gibson all at the end of 2016
oh theres more.. hodge and mitchell.

No need to make this about Hawthorn. We lost Guerra, Franklin, Sewell and still held up well.

Geelong need to find some key defenders. They should not have gotten Clark and Stanley, should've focused on Frawley instead.

 

[Adam H]

Geelong are in some deep doo doo with a serious lack of key defenders. Lonergan is into his 30s and Taylor is fading quickly.

Kolo looks very good and Delaney will be ok. Get Henderson and they'll contend next year again.

 

[Lethality]

Kolo looks very good and Delaney will be ok. Get Henderson and they'll contend next year again.

Kolo is a mid-sized defender. Delaney hasn't played a game for a while . . .

Henderson could be ok.

 

[Lethality]

 

[Lethality]

Collingwood were a lot younger and more inexperienced tonight

Geelong Average Age: 25 years 7 months
Average games played: 115

Collingwood Average Age: 23 years 8 months
Average games played: 80

 

[Adam H]

Collingwood were a lot younger and more inexperienced tonight

Geelong Average Age: 25 years 7 months
Average games played: 115

Collingwood Average Age: 23 years 8 months
Average games played: 80

Yes replace Kelly and Bartal with Caddy and Duncan and it's on par.

 

[King Bont]

Yeah, I've watched the Bont and he's already a very good player. So are all the players mentioned whose stats I pulled.

I guess it comes down to how you define elite, as the other poster said. IMO, as talented, AND as productive as those those guys already are at 20, 21 years of age, they're simply not in the elite bracket of players in the AFL yet.

Hardly any players are. Chris Judd 2004 is perhaps the only player I can recall being truly elite by 21. Maybe Selwood in 2009, but not as good as Judd 2004. J. Brown was elite in some aspects of the game by 2002, though his reputation outweighed his output.

After seeing tonight's game would Bont fall in your elite category?

 

[askdotcom]

After seeing tonight's game would Bont fall in your elite category?

No

 

[King Bont]

No