The future of the ABC - Guthrie sacked

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Mar 17, 2009
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His agenda is obvious and disgusting but who can blame him ? It works and will probably get him reelected.

The real worry for me is the complicity from the opposition. They have provided no resistance to all the crazy ass BS legislation that has been rushed through. Why is that ? Where is this all going ?

Its hard not to get conspiratorial about it all.

Come closer to the election people might just start thinking about the mess the budget has become.

Abort is going to have to come up with something real big if he is to keep diverting peoples attention away from the economy & his long history of lying his head off.
 
Apr 12, 2010
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I have and oddly I still dont care one iota about Australian ISIS members or their rights and it seems, overwelmingly Australians dont either. In fact I only found out people actually cared about the welfare of terrorists through the ABC.
It's not their welfare people are interested in, or should be interested in.The point of listening to guys like these from time to time is to try to understand where the hell they are coming from, and then refute what they have to say in a public forum, hopefully influencing people that may have had sympathies for such ideas.

As the saying goes, the best remedy for bad counsel is good counsel. Would we prefer that these dangerous and foolish ideas be driven underground to brood and ultimately manifest in horrific ways; or do we take the opportunity to nip it in the bud publicly?
 
Mar 17, 2009
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It's not their welfare people are interested in, or should be interested in.The point of listening to guys like these from time to time is to try to understand where the hell they are coming from, and then refute what they have to say in a public forum, hopefully influencing people that may have had sympathies for such ideas.

As the saying goes, the best remedy for bad counsel is good counsel. Would we prefer that these dangerous and foolish ideas be driven underground to brood and ultimately manifest in horrific ways; or do we take the opportunity to nip it in the bud publicly?

'scuse me this BF. Cant you rephrase that in a rude & aggressive manner please.

Your being far too considered & sensible IMO.

(Especially for Xsess & Lebbo:rolleyes:)
 

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Oct 2, 2007
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I have and oddly I still dont care one iota about Australian ISIS members or their rights

That's how this happened:

abughraibhood.gif


In fact I only found out people actually cared about the welfare of terrorists through the ABC.

Out of curiosity, would you support the following law in defense against 'Terrorist state-endangering acts of violence'? Specifically, would you support the State passing a law that imposes on 'Terrorists and their sympathizers':
  • Restrictions on their rights and personal freedom [habeus corpus]?
  • Restrictions on freedom of expression (including the freedom of the press)?
  • Restrictions on the freedom to organize and assemble?
  • Restrictions on the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications?
  • Authorization of special warrants for house searches, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, beyond the legal limits otherwise currently prescribed for everyone else?
If the answer is 'Yes', would you also support the PM creating a special 'Peoples Court' - a court with jurisdiction over a broad array of political offenses such as terrorism, terror sympathizing, sedition, undermining our war effort, and treason against the Commonwealth?
 
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Lebbo73

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That's how this happened:

abughraibhood.gif




Out of curiosity, would you support the following law in defense against 'Terrorist state-endangering acts of violence'? Specifically, would you support the State passing a law that imposes on 'Terrorists and their sympathizers':
  • Restrictions on their rights and personal freedom [habeus corpus]?
  • Restrictions on freedom of expression (including the freedom of the press)?
  • Restrictions on the freedom to organize and assemble?
  • Restrictions on the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications?
  • Authorization of special warrants for house searches, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, beyond the legal limits otherwise currently prescribed for everyone else?
If the answer is 'Yes', would you also support the PM creating a special 'Peoples Court' - a court with jurisdiction over a broad array of political offenses such as terrorism, terror sympathizing, sedition, undermining our war effort, and treason against the Commonwealth?
I hope Xsess doesn't support any of these. It would be worse than the Inquisitions. The lines become blurred between the enemy and the citizens. Eventually everyone becomes a suspect!
 
Oct 2, 2007
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I hope Xsess doesn't support any of these. It would be worse than the Inquisitions. The lines become blurred between the enemy and the citizens. Eventually everyone becomes a suspect!

Also; well spotted. I paraphrased the above laws (many of which are currently in force in Australia anyways) from:

Order of the Reich President for the Protection of People and State

On the basis of Article 48 paragraph 2 of the Constitution of the German Reich, the following is ordered in defense against Communist state-endangering acts of violence:

§ 1. Articles 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124 and 153 of the Constitution of the German Reich are suspended until further notice. It is therefore permissible to restrict the rights of personal freedom [habeas corpus], freedom of (opinion) expression, including the freedom of the press, the freedom to organize and assemble, the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications. Warrants for House searches, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond the legal limits otherwise prescribed.​

Or in its original form:

Verordnung des Reichspräsidenten zum Schutz von Volk und Staat

Auf Grund des Artikels 48 Abs. 2 der Reichsverfassung wird zur Abwehr kommunistischer staatsgefährdender Gewaltakte folgendes verordnet

1. Die Artikel 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124 und 153 der Verfassung des Deutschen Reichs werden bis auf weiteres außer Kraft gesetzt. Es sind daher Beschränkungen der persönlichen Freiheit, des Rechts der freien Meinungsäußerung, einschließlich der Pressefreiheit, des Vereins- und Versammlungsrechts, Eingriffe in das Brief-, Post-, Telegraphen- und Fernsprechgeheimnis, Anordnungen von Haussuchungen und von Beschlagnahmen sowie Beschränkungen des Eigentums auch außerhalb der sonst hierfür bestimmten gesetzlichen Grenzen zulässig.​

Better known as the Reichstag Fire Decree. You will note that many of the laws (if not all of them) are currently in force in Australia as we speak (replace 'Communist' with Terrorist' and you get the picture). That little bit of legislation was the first step in establishing totalitarian power by the National Socialists. It was followed by the Enabling act (centralizing legislative and executive power in the Nazis), but such legislation isn't really necessary in Australia seeing as the Executive are (for all intents and purposes) already the same people as the Legislature (and are also guaranteed to have a legislative majority in the lower house ensuring the passing of legislation barring the Senate - and thus virtual monopoly on both the Executive and Legislative branches - by virtue of the Westminster system anyway).

Luckily the Commonwealths Constitution protects the Senate, which (in my view) is about the only thing stopping a total control of the Legislative and Executive branch by the governing party. If it were different, you could bet your bottom dollar Pyne and his lackeys would have looked at disbanding or finding a way around the Senate as well. I'm sure they would love to circumvent the Senate if given the chance. Then nothing (barring the Judiciary... that the sitting PM appoints) could stop them.

That said, they're already circumventing the Judiciary as well, by removing judicial scrutiny from as much as the Constitution allows (privative clauses prohibiting judicial review, legislatively shielding the Minister from having to provide natural justice and procedural fairness, placing decision making in the hands of he Executive, setting up special 'administrative review tribunals' run by the Executive to 'speed up the process', ignoring the Rule of Law etc).

They then create an environment of fear in the voters, cloak a lot of their actions under the veil of secrecy (on the grounds of National Security of course) cut the opposition out of talks (like they did with the stripping of citizens of citizenship) and then go about demonizing and undermining them as 'unpatriotic terror supporters' who 'roll out the red carpet to terrorists', devise (and repeat at least six times per minute in any interview) simplistic jingoistic mantras of 'Death cult' and 'Whose side are you on' and 'Stop the boats' in a propaganda campaign that even Goebbels himself would be proud of.

Now if only they could get rid of that pesky ABC that stands in the way of the official State propaganda machine 'News Corp'. Cutting 500 million from it's budget, labeling them 'terrorist sympathizers' and 'working against national security' (while standing in front of flags) wasn't enough - It might even be time to appoint someone to ensure 'appropriate content' (read - ensuring the parroting of the 'stop the boats' and 'death cult' mantras) after the recent 'review' is completed.

Next thing you know, we'll have our personal information being monitored at all times by a secret police force, our movements and communications being tracked at all times, what we can access on the internet censored, the executive with the power to convict people on suspicion alone, revoke citizenship and arguably eject people from the country without resorting to the judiciary, the ability to detain people without charge indefinitely, concentration style camps in place holding ethnic minorities... oh wait; we have all this in place already.

The worst thing is, people are swallowing it up without blinking. Sad days indeed.
 
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Jun 14, 2010
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Franga
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That's because your looking at things from a wildly left prism. There's no conspiracy just democracy working for the good of Australia. The opposition is representing their constituents by supporting the legislation, the government is as well. Between the two major parties overwelmingly middle Australia is being represented. Its only the fringe of society and "their" ABC megaphone who have a problem with it (but who gives a stuff about them)?

You assume I am left...
In an ideological sense, a true conservatives of the right would not be in favor of removing citizenship rights or the increased powers to the state.

"The opposition is representing their constituents by supporting the legislation, the government is as well. Between the two major parties overwelmingly middle Australia is being represented"

Both parties are increasingly representing their donors, not the citizens they are supposed to serve. The system has been corrupted by money.
What are the potential consequences of this long term ? What effect will it have on Inequality ? How desperate will the disadvantage become ? How will people react when it becomes blindingly obvious that the elected establishment is not representing them ?

Maybe all the newly introduced powers receive bipartisan support because both sides can see this coming and its an act of self preservation.
 

Jakko

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Apr 7, 2005
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Why cant the Q&A audience ask questions in their own words? They seem stage managed and very samey, almost parliament style.

**Tony Jones now crosses to a member of the audience, that's how democratic we are**

**member of public reads out the producer reworded question I wanted to ask tonight, must be robotic and unnatural as I ask**

Worst part of the show, no matter what the question.
 

Contra Mundum

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Why cant the Q&A audience ask questions in their own words? They seem stage managed and very samey, almost parliament style.

**Tony Jones now crosses to a member of the audience, that's how democratic we are**

**member of public reads out the producer reworded question I wanted to ask tonight, must be robotic and unnatural as I ask**

Worst part of the show, no matter what the question.

It should be criticised as a pretty s**t show - people talk at one another and roll out their well worn prejudices - the shitty thing about wacky zakey is they should have had his questions on tape and Tony Jones should not have punted the half volley question to him - it's a storm in a tea cup
 

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Xsess

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Nov 22, 2007
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Sadly, most of them are already law.

Im curious to hear from Xsess through.

The image is the sort of gotya stunt you would see on Q&A. Find the worst and most extreme example of system breakdown leading to human rights abuse then attempt to paint it as relevent to this topic. In doing so your effectively accusing thosee opposing your view as being supportive of the types of attrocities they are in fact arguing against it, you also claim the high moral ground on the issue when in fact it is you arguing the morally redundent scenario by arguing the "rights" of terrorists at the expense of the rest of Australian society who deserve to remain connected to their heads.
 
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Xsess

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I hope Xsess doesn't support any of these. It would be worse than the Inquisitions. The lines become blurred between the enemy and the citizens. Eventually everyone becomes a suspect!

No I support stripping Australian ISIS members of their citizenships. ISIS. The guys currently in Syria burning captives alive, drowning, beheading, making sexual slaves of kids as young as 9 and throwing gay dudes out of windows. Just this week the best part of 100 innocent people were massacred by ISIS disciples in attacks across the globe. The fewer of these evil bastards in Australia the better.
 
Sep 21, 2009
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The image is the sort of gotya stunt you would see on Q&A. Find the worst and most extreme example of system breakdown leading to human rights abuse then attempt to paint it as relevent to this topic. In doing so you accuse people opposing you view as being supportive of the types of attrocities they are in fact arguing against it, you also claim the high moral ground on the issue when in fact it is you arguing the morally redundent scenario by arguing the "rights" of terrorists at the expense of the rest of Australian society who deserve to remain connected to their heads.
What if they aren't terrorists?
 
Jun 14, 2010
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Franga
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The image is the sort of gotya stunt you would see on Q&A. Find the worst and most extreme example of system breakdown leading to human rights abuse then attempt to paint it as relevent to this topic. In doing so you accuse people opposing you view as being supportive of the types of attrocities they are in fact arguing against it, you also claim the high moral ground on the issue when in fact it is you arguing the morally redundent scenario by arguing the "rights" of terrorists at the expense of the rest of Australian society who deserve to remain connected to their heads.

I mistakenly gave your post a like because I thought you were taking the piss at first hehe

"In doing so you accuse people opposing you view as being supportive of the types of attrocities they are in fact arguing against"

Kind of like how if your someone who doesn't buy into this fabricated fear mongering and your not gung-ho about going to war, or maybe just someone who isn't happy to flush their liberties down the toilet....well ya nothing but a terrorist sympathizer then and ya not on team Australia buddy... derka der FUnKK OFFFF

""arguing the "rights" of terrorists at the expense of the rest of Australian society "

Nobody is arguing for the rights of terrorists, what a crazy ass thing to suggest lol
Its everyone's rights that are being turded away ...duhhh
 

Xsess

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Nov 22, 2007
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Nobody is arguing for the rights of terrorists, what a crazy ass thing to suggest lol. Its everyone's rights that are being turded away ...duhhh

You are arguing the right of 150 ISIS members to return to Australia once they are done. You are arguing against the deportation of terrorists currently residing in Australia. Its the same line your ABC is taking. There's no middle ground.
 
Apr 30, 2006
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Why cant the Q&A audience ask questions in their own words? They seem stage managed and very samey, almost parliament style.
.

It is a lot like watching question time with the Dorothy dixers.

If I was to redesign the show, it would be more similar to a debate format where the personalities and media jocks are dropped for topic specific guests.

Eg: the citizenship revoking debate would have lawyers, police etc arguing for or against.

At the end you could have a q and a format with the audience debating with the studio guests on the issues.

In the end the show is too contrived to have much redeeming value outside of reinforcing peoples preconceived opinions.
 
Sep 21, 2009
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Then all they have to do is show due cause for being in Syria or otherwise appeal the basis of their identification as a terrorist.
OK.
I'm a child, and my dad took me with him, to Syria and has been killed while fighting for terrorists.
I was born in Australia.
I'm 8 years old.

I've been on a tv show, saying that my dad called Abbott "Tony dumb dumb".

What happens to me?
 
OK.
I'm a child, and my dad took me with him, to Syria and has been killed while fighting for terrorists.
I was born in Australia.
I'm 8 years old.

I've been on a tv show, saying that my dad called Abbott "Tony dumb dumb".

What happens to me?
Traitor! How could you?:p
By the way, I don't mind my taxes paying for the ABC, I object to paying for the salaries of the majority of MP's. Thank goodness Sophie is not one of them.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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No I support stripping Australian ISIS members of their citizenships. ISIS. The guys currently in Syria burning captives alive, drowning, beheading, making sexual slaves of kids as young as 9 and throwing gay dudes out of windows. Just this week the best part of 100 innocent people were massacred by ISIS disciples in attacks across the globe. The fewer of these evil bastards in Australia the better.

Is that just ISIS or Churches you are on about?. We have Sunni's V Shia's, Hindu killing Muslin & vice versa,We have Buddists killing Rohingas in Malaysia, we have the abhorent history of the RCC, let alone the violent sexual behaviors we are uncovering daily here & elsewhere..

Because their is SFA difference between them .
 

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