The future of the EU

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knife

All Australian
Aug 19, 2009
874
617
AFL Club
Melbourne
Plenty of threads about various issues surrounding the EU, so I thought I'd try to make an all encompassing one here focused on the future (or lack thereof depending on your outlook) of the EU.

Today the Swiss removed the 3 year peg the Franc has had with the Euro, essentially leaving their de facto membership of the Eurozone. The Swiss Franc has since surged ~30% and has set negative interest rates at 0.75% (meaning you pay to keep your money in a bank) and there is official talk that may increase to 1.25%.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ss-franc-surges-after-scrapping-euro-peg.html

A lot of people in Central and Eastern Europe have loans in Swiss Franc denomination which have suddenly become ~30% more expensive to finance. Austria, Poland, Hungary and Romania have differing levels of exposure along with many banks in Switzerland and the EU. There will be enormous pressure in Poland who have Presidential and Parliamentary elections coming up this year for a potential package to bailout struggling mortgage holders. There is a good chance it could lead to further weakening to an already dire situation in the European Economy.

On top of this the European Central Bank is likely to start a program of Quantitative easing, essentially printing money out of thin air, next week. Germany and more importantly the German electorate have been strongly against this kind of action since the financial crisis began. Much of this resistance is born out of the rampant inflation in the 1930s and the resultant Nazi Government. Along with the fact that much of the risk of the whole eurozone's debts will be placed on Germany's shoulders. Such is fear over the rest of Europe's debts, you currently actually pay the German Government to lend the German Government money!
The AfD (Alternative for Germany) is an anti-euro anti-EU (Not anti-eurozone, google if your confused) party that has seen its support grow from nearly nothing to 4.7% in 2013 general elections, just shy of the 5% that gets you representation. Last year in some states elections within Germany it grabbed over ~10% of the vote and won 7 seats in the European Parliament. QE is likely to anger a lot of German's and will likely see the AfD support increase in the leadup to 2017 elections.

Greeks have upcoming elections that are likely to put in power a Government vehemently opposed to austerity measures forced upon them by the EU, but who are also likely to vote in substantial numbers of parliamentarians, or even, a Government who want out of the Euro or the EU.

Along with Greece and Poland, the UK, Spain, Denmark, Finland, Portugal and Estonia all have elections this year. With the UK in particular likely to see substantial support for the anti-EU, anti-immigration UKIP, who may even find themselves in a Coalition Government.

Sweden's Government and opposition parties have come to an agreement to pass budget bills in order to prevent snap elections that would likely have seen the Swedish Democrats, another anti-EU, anti-immigration party potentially becoming at the very least the main opposition party. The Swedish democrats just yesterday called for a vote of no-confidence in the current Prime Minister.

France's National Front, another anti-immigration anti-EU party, led by Marine Le Pen leads or is second in almost all Presidential polling. Support which is expected to strengthen in light of the recent terror attacks in Paris.

I won't get into more detail and into others like in Hungary, but the main point is there has been a surge in anti-EU commission, anti-Euro and anti-immigration party support throughout Europe. Many would read this and say ~10% isn't enough to change governments, but in Europe many major parties require a coalition party to form government, and if, as the current trends seem to suggest, the support for these parties continues to grow we'll likely see ,at the very least, anti-EU parties as the main opposition in many countries over the next few years.

I've run out of space so I'll briefly continue below!
 
Anyway personally I think the EU is in its death throes. While anti-immigration has been the visible issue, I think its more a symptom of various economic problems that have more to do with the realisation that the single currency system doesn't work for all the countries involved. The fact that the EU has and will continue to take more and more power away from national governments and national cultures (I don't mean in terms of immigration, which while is definitely a factor, is not as important as some countries expectations regarding things like pensions, working-weeks etc) further increasing the gap between the people and the executive. This is already a problem in some national governments, like for example France, where nearly every French President, a large percentage of cabinet, and most bureaucrats go to the most elitist school in France, École nationale. So its little suprise how out of touch they are with everyday voters and how much they disdain the poor in private. Another reason for Le Pen's surge in popularity.

I think EU decision making is so centralised and in my opinion undemocratic. Too much power has gone to commission executive who alone have the sole power to propose Europe wide legislation, and basically send it to the EU parliament to rubber stamp it. There is no transparency over the selection of commission president with secretive backroom horse trading and petty reasons like a candidate being proficient in French, been determining factors in selecting positions in the commission.
A lack of transparency, particularly in regard to lobbyist influence, and some industry lobbyists find themselves as key decision makers in European wide regulation. One example off the top of my head was a music industry lobbyist, Maria Martin-Prat, who found herself as the EU commisssion’s copyright czar. You hear about the revolving door of lobbyists and government in the US but the EU are just, if not worse, than the US with little oversight.

So for a whole variety of complex, interconnected reasons I don't think the EU will survive the decade, and there is a good chance of Greece leaving this year. If Greece leave, with a massive devaluation of their currency but potentially allowing their country to get back to been competitive, may see a relatively quick rebound in their economy. This may set an example to other Southern European countries, like in Italy, push for their own departure from the EU. We'll wait and see.
 
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On the flip side there is broad political support for the EU both within and outside the political elite.

Greece's attempt to renegotiate the bailout package is novel, but it's not a deathblow. Syriza is a pro-EU party and will likely remain so, if push comes to shove the EU doesn't have a lot of room to move on Greece, they know it's exit would be a massive blow for the prestige and sustainability of the EU.

Preferably it's a period of mild consolidation. Should cooler heads prevail.
 

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Syriza will come to power in greece the people there are sick of the two big parties. They want change. Even with syriza in power dont expect alot to change . Dont be suprise if Syriza continue with the bail outs and in the end the greek people will get peed off and that dont be suprised if they dont go for new elections in 6 months time
 
Interesting that all the talk was of extreme right wing parties gaining popularity yet we've now got a radical left wing party in government in Greece and every chance there will be one in Spain as well. Interesting times for the EU.
 
Syriza will come to power in greece the people there are sick of the two big parties. They want change. Even with syriza in power dont expect alot to change . Dont be suprise if Syriza continue with the bail outs and in the end the greek people will get peed off and that dont be suprised if they dont go for new elections in 6 months time

He's already started cancelling the bailout policies. The Euro bigwigs have been flying in to throw their weight around - Martin Schulz, the President of the European Parliament and Eurogroup chief Jeroen Dijsselbloem. The Greek people might be thinking - hold on when did we vote for these guys?

As Daniel Hannan points out, the real fear for the Euro technocrats is what if Greece quits the Euro and thrives.
 
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He's already started cancelling the bailout policies. The Euro bigwigs have been flying in to throw their weight around - Martin Schulz, the President of the European Parliament and Eurogroup chief Jeroen Dijsselbloem. The Greek people might be thinking - hold on when did we vote for these guys?

As Daniel Hannan points out, the real fear for the Euro technocrats is what if Greece quits the Euro and thrives.
This is where the problem with the common currency come in and also begs the question how did they let Greece in to begin with.

Getting rid of the Euro and going back to the drachma might sound easy in principle but it will be a nightmare in reality. You can't suddenly have enough currency to satisfy the marketplace overnight. When Europe changed to the Euro, they'd been printing currency and minting coins for 12 months in the lead up.
 

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He wont do jack he will do what ever Merkel says to him . Tsipras is full of words trust me the only reason he got in is due to greeks wanting a change from the two main parties
 
Getting rid of the Euro and going back to the drachma might sound easy in principle but it will be a nightmare in reality. You can't suddenly have enough currency to satisfy the marketplace overnight. When Europe changed to the Euro, they'd been printing currency and minting coins for 12 months in the lead up.

And the local currency was used in parallel while it was phased out, wasn't it? Which would mean that the new drachma would need to pegged to the Euro with every speculator in Europe and the US punting on it falling like a rock the minute it is floated.

They would at least get monetary policy back.
 
Dont be suprise if Syriza continue with the bail outs and in the end the greek people will get peed off and that dont be suprised if they dont go for new elections in 6 months time

One by one they were rolled back, blitzkrieg-style, mercilessly, ruthlessly, with rat-a-tat efficiency. First the barricades came down outside the Greek parliament. Then it was announced that privatisation schemes would be halted and pensions reinstated. And then came the news of the reintroduction of the €751 monthly minimum wage. And all before Greece’s new prime minister, the radical leftwinger Alexis Tsipras, had got his first cabinet meeting under way.

After that, ministers announced more measures: the scrapping of fees for prescriptions and hospital visits, the restoration of collective work agreements, the rehiring of workers laid off in the public sector, the granting of citizenship to migrant children born and raised in Greece

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...thens-lightning-speed-anti-austerity-policies
we've now got a radical left wing party in government in Greece and every chance there will be one in Spain as well. Interesting times for the EU.

Considering the Germans, that would make things interesting, 4 large Europeans countries friendly with Russia. Britian and France will need to start another war to save face?

I wonder who shot down mh17.............
 
This is where the problem with the common currency come in and also begs the question how did they let Greece in to begin with.

Getting rid of the Euro and going back to the drachma might sound easy in principle but it will be a nightmare in reality. You can't suddenly have enough currency to satisfy the marketplace overnight. When Europe changed to the Euro, they'd been printing currency and minting coins for 12 months in the lead up.

Knowing the Greeks they probably stuffed all their drachmas under their mattresses :p

The Eurocrats will look to do whatever it takes to stop Greece leaving the Euro. Tsipras is looking for debt relief and in the grand scheme of things the Eurocrats might think it is a small price to pay. If Greece goes then Spain and Portugal could be next. The UK is a another story but if 3 or 4 countries leave it would be the end of the EU in it's current form.

I really hope the EU dies a peaceful death. It's a fundamentally undemocratic organisation run by bankers, unelected technocrats and second rate politicians that serves themselves at the expense of the ordinary people of Europe. But this supra-national class of parasites won't go down without a fight. It's my feeling that THEY WILL STOP AT NOTHING.
 
Interesting that all the talk was of extreme right wing parties gaining popularity yet we've now got a radical left wing party in government in Greece and every chance there will be one in Spain as well. Interesting times for the EU.

Troubled times tend to drive people to the extremes (thus creating more instability and usually more trouble).
 
Prediction.

If Greece succeeds economically, it'll be a triumph for far left policies.
If Greece fails or breaks even (whatever that is), it'll be a conspiracy by the capitalists/bankers (etc) to try and stop the rise of the left.
 
Knowing the Greeks they probably stuffed all their drachmas under their mattresses :p

The Eurocrats will look to do whatever it takes to stop Greece leaving the Euro. Tsipras is looking for debt relief and in the grand scheme of things the Eurocrats might think it is a small price to pay. If Greece goes then Spain and Portugal could be next. The UK is a another story but if 3 or 4 countries leave it would be the end of the EU in it's current form.

I really hope the EU dies a peaceful death. It's a fundamentally undemocratic organisation run by bankers, unelected technocrats and second rate politicians that serves themselves at the expense of the ordinary people of Europe. But this supra-national class of parasites won't go down without a fight. It's my feeling that THEY WILL STOP AT NOTHING.
harsh ongoing austerity measure like those forced on Greece will always meet with resentment. Whilst people might tolerate a hit for one year, they won't for multiple years, because simply those most effected are those who can least afford it (bit like Joe Hockey's ideas on balancing a budget). It is no surprise that anti-austerity groups had grown in popularity and if anyone was surprised then they obviously have no relationship with any working class citizens.

When bankers bow to Greece they will quickly find that they have to do the same to Spain and Portugal, this will hopefully force a complete rethink on how the EU economy actually works. I was living in Europe during the transition to the Euro (bankers started using it in 1999, hard currency began in 2002) and a lot of people were rightly concerned. I was working with RBS and a senior economist said over drinks that the Euro should've been phased into different countries, start with the stronger economies of Germany, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Finland & Austria, then slowly add other countries rather than bring everyone in at once. This would've given them a chance to judge whether or not it was appropriate to bring in Italy (arguable to include them in first round), Spain-Portugal, Greece, etc. instead of finding out later than some economies are not as strong as they seem. This has been proven to be correct and was a major contributing factor in why Denmark chose not to be a part of the Euro.

My favourite comment on the whole debate of Greece leaving the Euro was by the new finance minister Yanis Varoufakis (who is actually an Aussie), who quoted the line from Hotel California "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"
 

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