Religion The God Question (continued in Part 2 - link in last post)

[hardon]

Explains why it wasnt answered until i bumped. But mostly i want to know how nonbelievers, thinking about becoming a christian could know that pauls visions were from god, or thats what his subconcious was leading him to. Its been proven by the coin flip challenge that our brain leads us to what we seek.

it is a complete flippin' mystery to me too.

somehow some religious folk don't know that having an 'experience' or 'feelings' is evidence, ONLY, that you had an 'experience' or a 'feeling', and nothing more. don't ask them to use those 'feelings' to extract useful or practical information though. like, did the magic-man build just 'NTTAWWT' trees into existence all at once or did he spray them up, atom by atom. these are important questions to ask if god is all to be treated as a useful explanation for anything.

 

[Pie eyed]

As a former altar boy I understand brother!

Me too...
Seems to be a trend.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Just wondering if any christians can explain this for me.

Are you sure that the bible? It reads like a telemarketers hand book.

 

[skilts]

Me too...
Seems to be a trend.

I don't think I've ever been accused of being trendy before. Thank you.

 

[Cooldude]

Are you sure that the bible? It reads like a telemarketers hand book.

Well quite a lot of religious "leaders" act like telemarketers or car salesmen anyway, some people get sucked in some people don't

 

[Boston tiger]

I take it if your not a God person then you are an accidentalist. Zero God involvement no Christian ; no Muslin God etc. Just pure chance, eternity of nothing awaits. Just shittin luck that we are here following footy.
Fair enough I say its a good a theory as any.
Where I get a bit unstuck on this theory is how we got so much smarter than all the other luck based creatures on the Earth.
Was it the luck of the thumbs? Compared to us the monkeys are crap. Same as the dolphin absolute dumb arses.
Anyway I'm sure there's an answer to this but it makes me wonder sometimes.

 

[skilts]

I take it if your not a God person then you are an accidentalist. Zero God involvement no Christian ; no Muslin God etc. Just pure chance, eternity of nothing awaits. Just shittin luck that we are here following footy.
Fair enough I say its a good a theory as any.
Where I get a bit unstuck on this theory is how we got so much smarter than all the other luck based creatures on the Earth.
Was it the luck of the thumbs? Compared to us the monkeys are crap. Same as the dolphin absolute dumb arses.
Anyway I'm sure there's an answer to this but it makes me wonder sometimes.

No body knows what it is to be a tree, much less a monkey or dolphin

 

[Sydney Bloods]

The problem most people have in seeing this is they only see the end game.

Fact is we have interfered with the evolution of many animals from wiping out mega fauna to selective breeding of others.

This is why octopuses, dolphins and bears are some of the smartest animals next to us.

They have been interfered with the least.

 

[hardon]

I take it if your not a God person then you are an accidentalist. Zero God involvement no Christian ; no Muslin God etc. Just pure chance, eternity of nothing awaits. Just shittin luck that we are here following footy.
Fair enough I say its a good a theory as any.
Where I get a bit unstuck on this theory is how we got so much smarter than all the other luck based creatures on the Earth.
Was it the luck of the thumbs? Compared to us the monkeys are crap. Same as the dolphin absolute dumb arses.
Anyway I'm sure there's an answer to this but it makes me wonder sometimes.

i don't know who you were replying to but i'll answer anyways.

i don't subscribe to your descriptions of the world. words like 'luck', 'accident' and 'chance' don't describe anything at all. they describe forces or correlations that exist only in the mind. to describe something as an 'chance' is another way of saying we don't know what is going to happen. i've never seen anyone measure the chance force or the chance particle. it just doesn't exist as a real thing. you can't create anything with chance, luck or accidents.

and as for smarter, so what? some people on this planet just think intelligence is the 'highest' or 'best' attribute a living thing could have. this is just pure human ego and nothing more. if more big-toothed or poisonous predators had roamed the earth before we got a foothold our ancestors could well have been hunted to extinction. then big-arse claws and teeth seem like a pretty good advantage.

we haven't been around long enough to prove whether intelligence is the 'best' evolutionary strategy. the dinosaurs were around for something over 100 million years. if we manage to annihilate ourselves with nuclear war then it would seem that size and teeth were ultimately a 'better' evolutionary survival mechanism than the self-annihilating (high) intelligence.

does this all make sense?

 

[skilts]

The Bible is written by men, inspired by the Holy Spirit which is where the wisdom and truth comes from. It is also what links it to the OT and other NT books , theologically speaking in ways the writer would never have known at the time. The selection of the canon also was inspired by the Holy Spirit as there were lots of options to choose from.

I imagine u would have to believe that to truly think the bible is the inspired word of God. If you think it is just wise words from men, then I don't know why it would change your life or be something u would devote yourself to. If you doubt that, you doubt the words and authenticity i would imagine.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

Is not this 'Holy Spirit' also known as, 'The Holy Ghost'? Do you also believe in ghosts? God would be a much simpler concept, were those who propound it not reduced to the use of language in its definition. One of the problems of being human, I suppose. Apparently, this is not a difficulty encountered by god. He/she/it uses no language at all. Nor is he/she/it human. Two immediate, debilitating elements of distance between god and other beings. I have enough difficulty understanding my own existence, much less that of one who/which doesn't share a common experience. Maybe this is just symptomatic of a chronic lack of ambition and attention on my part. What (common) form of communication might we use instead of language?

 

[Boston tiger]

Is not this 'Holy Spirit' also known as, 'The Holy Ghost'? Do you also believe in ghosts? God would be a much simpler concept, were those who propound it not reduced to the use of language in its definition. One of the problems of being human, I suppose. Apparently, this is not a difficulty encountered by god. He/she/it uses no language at all. Nor is he/she/it human. Two immediate, debilitating elements of distance between god and other beings. I have enough difficulty understanding my own existence, much less that of one who/which doesn't share a common experience. Maybe this is just symptomatic of a chronic lack of ambition and attention on my part. What (common) form of communication might we use instead of language?

Very insightful post. "What common form of communication might we use instead of language" if that means between us and God I suppose over the eons it's been deep prayer or meditation etc.
Some people get a lot out of it some draw a blank.

 

[Boston tiger]

i don't know who you were replying to but i'll answer anyways.

i don't subscribe to your descriptions of the world. words like 'luck', 'accident' and 'chance' don't describe anything at all. they describe forces or correlations that exist only in the mind. to describe something as an 'chance' is another way of saying we don't know what is going to happen. i've never seen anyone measure the chance force or the chance particle. it just doesn't exist as a real thing. you can't create anything with chance, luck or accidents.

and as for smarter, so what? some people on this planet just think intelligence is the 'highest' or 'best' attribute a living thing could have. this is just pure human ego and nothing more. if more big-toothed or poisonous predators had roamed the earth before we got a foothold our ancestors could well have been hunted to extinction. then big-arse claws and teeth seem like a pretty good advantage.

we haven't been around long enough to prove whether intelligence is the 'best' evolutionary strategy. the dinosaurs were around for something over 100 million years. if we manage to annihilate ourselves with nuclear war then it would seem that size and teeth were ultimately a 'better' evolutionary survival mechanism than the self-annihilating (high) intelligence.

does this all make sense?

That makes sense and but I still can't believe how clever and ingenious the human race is. I have no doubt that we will have populated another planet before this sun burns up etc or thought up a problem around it etc.
No other animal comes near that.

 

[skilts]

Very insightful post. "What common form of communication might we use instead of language" if that means between us and God I suppose over the eons it's been deep prayer or meditation etc.
Some people get a lot out of it some draw a blank.

I would interpret 'prayer' as being language-based - the reason they are able to be written. Regarding meditation, you raise the interesting question as to whether we think in language. I tend to think that we do. In fact, I'm not altogether sure I am capable of any other form of thought.

Of course, you might contend that god was the one who/which invented language. Which prompts the question as to why he/she/it neglects the use of it. Once you go down the road of attributing everything in our existence to god, we, in effect, become supernumeraries in the project.

 

[hardon]

That makes sense and but I still can't believe how clever and ingenious the human race is.

once again, cleverness is just another evolutionary strategy. is it any more mind boggling than how an octopus goes about it's business of controlling 8 appendages, and changing colour? we might destroy ourselves soon, and then intelligence seems to be a s**t way of surviving.

I have no doubt that we will have populated another planet before this sun burns up etc or thought up a problem around it etc.
No other animal comes near that.

just from the little bits i've read, i personally wouldn't bet on any life forms from earth that are able to colonise another planet in another galaxy being close enough to us to be considered human. the technological and energy requirements seem prohibitive.

 

[Boston tiger]

once again, cleverness is just another evolutionary strategy. is it any more mind boggling than how an octopus goes about it's business of controlling 8 appendages, and changing colour? we might destroy ourselves soon, and then intelligence seems to be a s**t way of surviving.



just from the little bits i've read, i personally wouldn't bet on any life forms from earth that are able to colonise another planet in another galaxy being close enough to us to be considered human. the technological and energy requirements seem prohibitive.

Come on we've just crawled out of the primeval swamp and look what we are doing. We will do it easy.

 

[The Scales]

The problem most people have in seeing this is they only see the end game.

Fact is we have interfered with the evolution of many animals from wiping out mega fauna to selective breeding of others.

This is why octopuses, dolphins and bears are some of the smartest animals next to us.

They have been interfered with the least.

I hereby promise that I have not interfered with any octopi, dolphins or bears.

 

[skilts]

I hereby promise that I have not interfered with any octopi, dolphins or bears.

You haven't lived.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

You haven't lived.

You owe me a cuppa.

 

[skilts]

You owe me a cuppa.

I do indeed. Heartfelt thanks just won't cut it.

 

[Pie eyed]

I don't think I've ever been accused of being trendy before. Thank you.

I doubt very much being an alter boy IS trendy......
It was thoughback in the day when one son or daughter from many families joined the Priesthood or became a nun.

 

[skilts]

I doubt very much being an alter boy IS trendy......
It was thoughback in the day when one son or daughter from many families joined the Priesthood or became a nun.

I suppose that was its true purpose - as an apprenticeship to the priesthood - like everything else they did.

 

[Pie eyed]

I suppose that was its true purpose - as an apprenticeship to the priesthood - like everything else they did.

My best mate and I both got the "sack" for lighting candles for the poor and not paying...

 

[hardon]

My best mate and I both got the "sack" for lighting candles for the poor and not paying...

uuuuuuuum... i know what 'get the sack' means to normal people, but, this could mean a few things in a church...

 

[skilts]

uuuuuuuum... i know what 'get the sack' means to normal people, but, this could mean a few things in a church...

He used to get the ashes once a year too.

 

[Pie eyed]

uuuuuuuum... i know what 'get the sack' means to normal people, but, this could mean a few things in a church...

I went to a Christian Brother's college and although I never had any personal problems, I know a few blokes who did.
I got the regular beltings, the strap or the yardstick across your fingers etc, but never anything sexual.
I got much more violent treatment by the nuns in Primary school, the old bitches.
Six of the former brothers from my days were named in regard to pedophilia, two suicided, before they faced any inquiries. don't know what happened to the others, though I recall one of the Priests, Father McCardle, not implicated in anyway as far as I know, is now in the Canberra area. He would probably know what came of the allegations.