Religion The God Question (continued in Part 2 - link in last post)

god or advanced entity?

  • god

    Votes: 14 40.0%

  • advanced entity

    Votes: 21 60.0%
  • Total voters
    35

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Boston tiger said:
I don't think they ever expected 50,000 different churches with there own spin on things to use it as there own. Always meant to be used in conjunction with the oral teachings of the church.

First the Bible itself states that not everything important to the Christian faith is recorded in it. For example, not everything that Christ did is recorded in the inspired Books:
"But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. "[John 21:25; RSV]
According to John 20:31, some things have been recorded in the Gospel in order to come to know Christ; however, John 21:25 suggests that there is still more to know about Him. At least for St. John the Apostle, there was more that he needed to teach which was not recorded in the Bible:
"I had much to write you, but I would rather not write with pen and ink; I hope to see you soon, and we will talk together face to face. "[3 John 13-14]
Also St. Paul instructs Timothy on how to orally pass on the teachings of the faith:
"...what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also." [2 Tim. 2:2]
St. Paul even commands (2 Thess. 3:6) the Thessalonian Christians to follow the oral Traditions of the Apostles:
"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us (Apostles), either by word of mouth (oral) or by letter (Epistle). [2 Thess. 2:15]
These commands promoting Oral Tradition would be quite strange, if only the Bible were needed to pass on the entire Christian faith.

Also the Bible does not call itself the bulwark of the truth; however, St. Paul does make reference to the Church in those terms:
...the household of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. [1 Tim. 3:15]
And the Bible points to the importance of the Church for teaching the Truth. According to St. Peter in the Bible:
First of all you must understand this, that no prophesy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. [2 Peter 1:20-21]

Scripture did not come with an "inspired" Table of Contents. Nowhere in the sacred texts are all the Books listed. There are some Books cited in the sacred writings but these lists are vague and incomplete (Acts 28:23; 2 Peter 3:16). There are also references to books not found in the Bible, such as St. Paul's Epistle to the Laodiceans (Col. 4:16). St. Paul even encourages the Colossians to read this epistle, but still it is not in the Bible. Jesus in the Gospel never attempts to list the "official" Books of the Old Testament (OT). This issue was hotly debated in His day. Today Protestant and Catholic Christians disagree over which Books belong in the OT. Catholics follow the list in the Septuagint (2nd century B.C. Greek translation of the Hebrew Scripture) while Protestants follow the list used by the Pharisees. A list from Jesus could have eliminated this problem, but no such list is found in the Gospel. As a result the Bible needs a visible authority outside of itself to list the inspired sacred Books. This authority must be guided by the Holy Spirit since these Books are from the Holy Spirit.
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do you personally endorse these views?
 
Cooldude said:
Well in the New Testament there are a lot of stuff about faith only being sufficient both from Jesus and from Paul, but just that there are other parts that says very differently

In the end you can use the bible to justify any position
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What most faithful of any religion don't want to think about is that the modern versions of holy scriptures have been re-written that many times (and that is even before they make their way into a "holy" book) and re-interpreted dependent on the requirements of the times they are re-written that the original words and meanings are lost and also "re-composed" to suit the times.

Example is Constantine getting a group of theologians from various groups together to debate and negotiate exactly what writings, diaries, translations etc got included in the new testament (and some "amendments to the old testament), as well as some texts even being "re-written" at that time. Same can be said for the Koran (also the dubious out of chronological order it is in, but that's a different matter altogether and when read in correct time sequence paints some interesting conclusions about the "Greatest" Prophet if the text is accurate).
 

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hardon said:
do you personally endorse these views?
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Yes I think it's just a case of History and pretty well recorded that this is the way things went down regarding Church and Bible.
Personally I don't go near the Old Testament and like to question some things in the New Testament however the basic message from the New Testament and what the Church teaches is usually pretty good stuff. Very comfortable with the 2000 years and it's connection to the past.
Having a Church as an authority gives you room to move. Eg the Church is in accordance with evolution etc... it stays modern and and to a point fluid and no running from the Truth. Slow to change and mostly misunderstood. Needs to work on how it involves the Gay community etc.
 
Baby Duck said:
Thank you for showcasing your pathetic level of understanding of anything Christian. All you can do is spew your own version of programmed hatred.
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No understanding is required to dismiss out-of-hand those who think there is an other world, one more important than this one. I thought I was being quite measured and generous by not laughing uproariously at your fantastic, absurd ruminations. That you would accuse someone else of being 'programmed' is worthy of Monty Python. I see a great future for you as a sit-down comic.
 
Contra Mundum said:
Its the search for the transcendent - the canon of Western Culture contains its own "spirituality"even from an utterly secular point of view. I went to a Painters and Dockers gig in Kalgoorlie once - it was a stinking hot summer, everyone was shitfaced and took all their clothes off when they sung nude school - that was spiritual experience to me
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But when they sung Die Yuppie Die you didnt keel over!
 
Baby Duck said:
God is omnipresent. However, he is not a magic genie that grants everyone's wishes, which seems to be a very common misconception. He see's our heart and know's us better than we know ourselves. If God is not answering you, it is because you are not asking the right questions.
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Or he was fabricated by irrational, superstitious, and very primitive people in the bronze age. There has never been any evidence except very dubious personal revelation.

If God is not answering you, that's because, to quote George Carlin:

"And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I liked best: ...and all the king's horses, and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty together again. That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no god. None. Not one. Never was. No god."
 

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Baby Duck said:
God is omnipresent. However, he is not a magic genie that grants everyone's wishes, which seems to be a very common misconception. He see's our heart and know's us better than we know ourselves. If God is not answering you, it is because you are not asking the right questions.
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So, why ask questions at all if there is only right answer? What's the point of prayer then?
 
skilts said:
What, exactly, is "the transcendent"? In what way does it manifest itself as the transcendent? What is there about it which makes it transcendent? Is the transcendent the same for everyone? Is it in any way possible that the transcendence could be anything other than the "search"? What is there about this search which makes it spiritual? Is this spirituality and transcendence available to all, or only those who are religiously inclined?
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Transcendents are a pack of Kants
 
evo said:
But when they sung Die Yuppie Die you didnt keel over!
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That was the encore brother! They are the archetypical indie band but somehow they cut through to the ferals - it was just magnificent
 
Baby Duck said:
God is omnipresent. However, he is not a magic genie that grants everyone's wishes, which seems to be a very common misconception. He see's our heart and know's us better than we know ourselves. If God is not answering you, it is because you are not asking the right questions.
Click to expand...
'

that seems like a lot attributes for something that is alleged to be mysterious or ineffable.
 
Baby Duck said:
Men these days are far too easily led by their penises, and as a result are easily manipulated.
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Were you not being deadly serious, this would be hilarious. Is there any part of life with which you've had interaction, or has your time here been a complete waste?
 
skilts said:
Were you not being deadly serious, this would be hilarious. Is there any part of life with which you've had interaction, or has your time here been a complete waste?
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Imo viewing pr0n is a waste of time/energy. When I repented and became Christian I quickly realized how much of what I was doing (and what most people do) is a waste and is totally soul destroying rather than uplifting.
 
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