Religion The God Question (continued in Part 2 - link in last post)

[Total Power]

Proves!!

OMG.
Have you told Hawking yet?
FMD.

Yeah, should have stated "says", but the conventional debating techniques of a militant atheist will not work here, string theory is still a "theory"

 

[Pie eyed]

The consciousness not dying is a fascinating concept

http://www.theeventchronicle.com/me...s-consciousness-moves-another-universe-death/

Biocentrism states that life and biology are central to being, reality, and the cosmos — life creates the universe rather than the other way around. It asserts that current theories of the physical world do not work, and can never be made to work, until they fully account for life and consciousness. While physics is considered fundamental to the study of the universe, and chemistry fundamental to the study of life, biocentrism claims that scientists will need to place biology before the other sciences to produce a theory of everything

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biocentric_universe

The theory implies that death simply does not exist. It is an illusion which arises in the minds of people. It exists because people identify themselves with their body. They believe that the body is going to perish, sooner or later, thinking that their consciousness will disappear too. In fact, consciousness exists outside of constraints of time and space. It is able to be anywhere: in the human body and outside of it. That fits well with the basic postulates of quantum mechanics, according to which a certain particle can be present anywhere and an event can happen in several, sometimes countless, ways.

Read more at: http://www.learning-mind.com/quantu...usness-moves-to-another-universe-after-death/

Been done many years ago. Do a search, there is massive thread on it and it's proponents.
Lanza is a special person. He and Chopra. Charlatan is a word which pops to mind.

Maybe you should have a read.

 

[Pie eyed]

No debating going on from this end.

 

[Total Power]

Not at all.
Religion is a human construct manufactured on the premise of some higher power . Not necessarily a God or deity.
Scientology for instance is based on an alien master race.
I am fully aware of the references you make regarding some figures in science.
I give no rats arse in relation to your wonderance about why some people have near death hallucinations.
There is no evidence to support supernatural occurrence in any form. Get over it.
Unfortunately it is you who is confusing religion with God.

and there is evidence to support its in the brain? please provide supporting evidences to prove awareness can exist when a brain stops or a dying brain can produce superior awareness for example. If you would care to read what i said before i said, it does NOT prove life after death but neither does it prove you are right that its the brain as well. Why is it so hard for you to understand?

Have to laugh at your ridiculous "militant atheist" drivel.
Do you even know what militant means.
You've read some s**t and put 1 and 8 together to get a 1/2 arsed conclusion.
Can't be bothered arguing the issue with you because your posts are largely loosely cobbled together unassociated pseudo-facts you've dredged off the internet.
For instance what has Newton's belief he was doing gods work got to do with the subject?
What possibly makes you think I care what Newton believed religiously?
Have I disputed his science.
I cannot see the link.

In another thread you said "education is the end to religion". I disputed that.You are argue all you want but you just said "i have already decided".. so you will not look at the evidence, cause you have already decided. Please answer my question on how consciousness can exist in a superior state while the person is clinically dead or due to lack of oxygen.Please stick to the point.

If you cannot answer the question say "i dont know", dont be like the religious fundamentalists and say "i know it all and i am convinced" .So just because you dont know and no one knows, yet it proves its in the brain. What science is that?

 

[Total Power]

Proves!!

OMG.
Have you told Hawking yet?
FMD.

lol

Many theoretical physicists, including Stephen Hawking, Edward Witten and Juan Maldacena, believe that string theory is a step towards the correct fundamental description of nature: it accommodates a consistent combination of quantum field theory andgeneral relativity, agrees with insights in quantum gravity (such as the holographic principle and black hole thermodynamics) and has passed many non-trivial checks of its internal consistency



looks like our good mate steve already know

 

[CountryRace]

Been done many years ago. Do a search, there is massive thread on it and it's proponents.
Lanza is a special person. He and Chopra. Charlatan is a word which pops to mind.

Maybe you should have a read.

The first article was published could days ago. Only yesterday did the non Big Bang theory/infinite universe theory, or the new version come out. Science changes. As they learn or theorise new things

If Lanza is unreliable I will consider this. Is Steve highly rated

 

[evo]

I dont understand why people think theres nothing beyond "space time". We can only access materialism which is within our known dimensions. String theory proves that there are several dimensions beyond what we know/understand. So say space/time and materialism is all there is and nothing beyond it, is incredibly naive. Time is also an interesting concept, string theory also states time might be imaginary.

just for the record i'm not a philosophical materialist.

Have you considered the absurdity of appealing to a scientific theory to demonstrate materialism is not true? Science depends on materialism for all its theories - that is how they are testable.

 

[CountryRace]

just for the record i'm not a philosophical materialist.

Have you considered the absurdity of appealing to a scientific theory to demonstrate materialism is not true? Science depends on materialism for all its theories - that is how they are testable.

How do they test this stuff? http://philpapers.org/rec/CLAMAE

 

[Total Power]

just for the record i'm not a philosophical materialist.

Have you considered the absurdity of appealing to a scientific theory to demonstrate materialism is not true? Science depends on materialism for all its theories - that is how they are testable.

How can materialism be true when we can only access 4 dimensions? we dont even matter in this universe, we dont even matter in this galaxy, we are not even a fraction of the universe. String theory talks about big bang and big busts happening all the time in the universe, yet when someone says the same after an NDE your gonna laugh at it. Yet NDEers say we are all connected and we are all the same, is consistent with jungs collective unconscious theory.Its not simple, you have to join the dots.

 

[skilts]

How can materialism be true when we can only access 4 dimensions? we dont even matter in this universe, we dont even matter in this galaxy, we are not even a fraction of the universe. String theory talks about big bang and big busts happening all the time in the universe, yet when someone says the same after an NDE your gonna laugh at it. Yet NDEers say we are all connected and we are all the same, is consistent with jungs collective unconscious theory.Its not simple, you have to join the dots.

Why didn't you quote Jung in the first place? That would have made it unnecessary to read anything else you wrote. Are you a comedian?

 

[evo]

How can materialism be true when we can only access 4 dimensions?

that's your argument against materialism? You need to do better than that mate. all that tells us that science is thus far limited in proving some it's own theories.

Beside, just because we can't currently access the proposed dimensions doesn't mean they aren't also 'material'

we dont even matter in this universe, we dont even matter in this galaxy, we are not even a fraction of the universe.

don't tell the biocentrists.

String theory talks about big bang and big busts happening all the time in the universe, yet when someone says the same after an NDE your gonna laugh at it.

i'm not laughing at NDE$s. just skeptical.

Yet NDEers say we are all connected and we are all the same, is consistent with jungs collective unconscious theory.Its not simple, you have to join the dots.

Jung?

 

[Pie eyed]

and there is evidence to support its in the brain? please provide supporting evidences to prove awareness can exist when a brain stops or a dying brain can produce superior awareness for example. If you would care to read what i said before i said, it does NOT prove life after death but neither does it prove you are right that its the brain as well. Why is it so hard for you to understand?



In another thread you said "education is the end to religion". I disputed that.You are argue all you want but you just said "i have already decided".. so you will not look at the evidence, cause you have already decided. Please answer my question on how consciousness can exist in a superior state while the person is clinically dead or due to lack of oxygen.Please stick to the point.

If you cannot answer the question say "i dont know", dont be like the religious fundamentalists and say "i know it all and i am convinced" .So just because you dont know and no one knows, yet it proves its in the brain. What science is that?

I have never once claimed proof of anything. You are simply making stuff up to bloat you posts. You have gone off topic not me.
I am not convinced. That does not change the fact there is no evidence of anything supernatural happening.
I cannot make it any clearer than that.
The generally accepted theory is that consciousness and thought "reside" and occur within the brain. So it's a good start.
Hallucinations occur in the brain and can be stimulated to occur through drugs introduced to the brain, oxygen starvation to the brain or physical trauma to the brain. Dreams occur in the brain.

You want to dispute that go for it. I don't really care.
If you have evidence that consciousness resides or occurs outside the brain feel free to post it.
I am not stopping you.

 

[Total Power]

that's your argument against materialism? You need to do better than that mate. all that tells us that science is thus far limited in proving some it's own theories.

Beside, just because we can't currently access the proposed dimensions doesn't mean they aren't also 'material'

don't tell the biocentrists.

i'm not laughing at NDE$s. just skeptical. Jung?

Science is ever changing, what we know today might be totally wrong. We dont even know the origin of life yet! we are all speculating.

I highly regard Jung's work, its consistent with many information from NDEers. I know you are skeptical but it makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[Total Power]

You want to dispute that go for it. I don't really care.
If you have evidence that consciousness resides or occurs outside the brain feel free to post it.
I am not stopping you.

Awareness during coma. Awareness AFTER clinical death. Granted sample size is small but the sample still exists.

Your argument that its in the brain is?

 

[evo]

Science is ever changing, what we know today might be totally wrong. We dont even know the origin of life yet! we are all speculating.

I know, that's my friggen argument. Your the one claiming a scientific theory disproves materialism!

 

[Pie eyed]

lol

Many theoretical physicists, including Stephen Hawking, Edward Witten and Juan Maldacena, believe that string theory is a step towards the correct fundamental description of nature: it accommodates a consistent combination of quantum field theory andgeneral relativity, agrees with insights in quantum gravity (such as the holographic principle and black hole thermodynamics) and has passed many non-trivial checks of its internal consistency



looks like our good mate steve already know

No argument there. I was highlighting your factually incorrect claim that the theory "proves" anything at all other than your quick resort to hyperbole.

 

[skilts]

I highly regard Jung's work, its consistent with many information from NDEers. I know you are skeptical but it makes a lot of sense to me.

This is the root of your many problems.

 

[Total Power]

I know, that's my friggen argument. Your the one claiming a scientific theory disproves materialism!

where did i say science disproves materialism? science is a way/technique to understand the material world. But there things beyond materialism as well, science cannot understand/explain that.If i have a NDE, thats real to me, how can you disprove that? there no way to disprove that. However you can only test the hypothesis by asking me what went on in that room.Thats the only way you can verify something.

 

[Total Power]

No argument there. I was highlighting your factually incorrect claim that the theory "proves" anything at all other than your quick resort to hyperbole.

do you know what a "theory" is? gravitation also a theory.

 

[Total Power]

This is the root of your many problems.

why is that? psychology is still shady science, to that dr x is right and dr y is wrong, is bias.

I said i highly regard his work, if you dont, then good on ya.

 

[Total Power]

No argument there. I was highlighting your factually incorrect claim that the theory "proves" anything at all other than your quick resort to hyperbole.

M-theory, the dominant version of string theory, holds that the universe is made up of unfathomably small slices of a 2-dimensional membrane, wriggling in 11-dimensional space.

So how is it not consistent with string theory? join the dots. String theory has evidence supporting it, nice cop out of "hawking" stuff there.

 

[evo]

where did i say science disproves materialism? science is a way/technique to understand the material world. But there things beyond materialism as well, science cannot understand/explain that.If i have a NDE, thats real to me, how can you disprove that? there no way to disprove that. However you can only test the hypothesis by asking me what went on in that room.Thats the only way you can verify something.

I think you need to get your arguments in a bit better order before I can engage with you any more.

Why did you appeal to string theory to show that there was things beyond materialism ? I presume you realise String Theory is a scientific theory?

 

[skilts]

why is that? psychology is still shady science, to that dr x is right and dr y is wrong, is bias.

I said i highly regard his work, if you dont, then good on ya.

That psychology is "shady science" is the least of its worries. In fact, psychologists stupidly embrace any relationship they can manufacture with science, no matter how tenuous. Like you, they are unaware of the irrelevance and shallowness of their futile and foundationless pursuit. Still, I suppose it keeps them away from frightening the horses.

 

[Pie eyed]

Awareness during coma. Awareness AFTER clinical death. Granted sample size is small but the sample still exists.

Your argument that its in the brain is?

OK.
Then there should be evidence...not your claims...evidence.
The answer to your second question is all of modern neuroscience.
I won't list every single study, but I'm sure you know how google works.
Then there are studies of...Pilots, mountaineers, divers, almost anyone who suffers oxygen deprivation..(if you're cluey you'll notice that Hypoxia is the number one explanation for NDE hallucinations too...could be a hint for you there.)
Studies of literally thousands of war injured, car accident victims, memory loss sufferers drug victims boxers, football players, cancer sufferers.
The swathe of studies and physical experiments on the frontal lobe etc etc etc etc...
REM sleep studies, induced dreaming....well scant evidence really but as I said you know how Google works.
Knock yourself out...should take a month to cover one of each category in any detail.

 

[Pie eyed]

I think you need to get your arguments in a bit better order before I can engage with you any more.

Why did you appeal to string theory to show that there was things beyond materialism ? I presume you realise String Theory is a scientific theory?

Like a mad womans s**t....comes to mind.