Traded James Aish [traded to Collingwood for #26 and St Kilda's 2016 second round pick]

[Rankor]

We offered our 1st rounder plus a player.

Pick 15 plus spud. Blues offered their priority pick no. 2 plus a player.

Stevens refused to go there then ends up there anyway. But we didn't make the pies stronger for little return and he added nothing to the blues chances in the end.

And now we seem to get fair trades going each way.

This should be what brissy aim for. Push him to the draft if they must but then teams in the future will probably try and give up fair compensation(unless dodoro is involved).

 

[Ian Dunross]

Ok.

James Aish:

- Has played 2 years at Brisbane. Played some decent footy at times, but as his time there progress, he seemed to fall in and out of favour and never fully appeared engaged with the club.
- Is leaving a club that has, for whatever reason, failed to retain young talent.
- He is moving to one of the biggest clubs, which can be seen as obvious motivation when contrasted with what its like playing football at Brisbane.
- Is not leaving for more money.

Nathan Freeman:
- Is yet to play any games at senior level, is yet to play any decent games at VFL level.
- Is leaving a club where young players have developed into quality footballers and seems to be a great environmwnt for young talent to develop.
- He is moving to a much smaller market.
- He is leaving for more money.

See the difference? Both in motivation and the clubs approach?

No.

Freeman is leaving because he feels he has been mismanaged.

He is leaving for opportunity.

Aish is leaving for the bright lights.

The latter is worse than the former.

 

[MagpieMilitia]

Pick 15 plus spud. Blues offered their priority pick no. 2 plus a player.

Stevens refused to go there then ends up there anyway. But we didn't make the pies stronger for little return and he added nothing to the blues chances in the end.

And now we seem to get fair trades going each way.

This should be what brissy aim for. Push him to the draft if they must but then teams in the future will probably try and give up fair compensation(unless dodoro is involved).

Utter crap. The pies asked Didak to be part of that trade but he didn't want to leave. To say we were trying to rip you off is rubbish. Seriously the anti-Collingwood stuff is getting to hysteria levels here. It would be comically to see the response here if it was the pies showing such prejudice to an exiting player.

 

[Babylove]

No.

Freeman is leaving because he feels he has been mismanaged.

He is leaving for opportunity.

Aish is leaving for the bright lights.

The latter is worse than the former.

Does it really matter? Fact is both Brisbane and Collingwood are in the position of losing a top ten draft pick coming off their rookie contract probably for a combination of financial, monitary and cultural reasons and the fact is as no one here is inside there heads so the actual full reason is an unknown.

And to brutally honest the reason for either player has no bearing on the respective trades so we don't really need to know.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Does it really matter? Fact is both Brisbane and Collingwood are in the position of losing a top ten draft pick coming off their rookie contract probably for a combination of financial, monitary and cultural reasons and the fact is as no one here is inside there heads so the actual full reason is an unknown.

And to brutally honest the reason for either player has no bearing on the respective trades so we don't really need to know.

That's all fine. I'm not criticising either player, except in the context of the post I was replying to.

My beef is w the mild hypocrisy of Balme criticising Brisbane on the one hand whilst knocking Freeman on the other.

No beef w Aish or Freeman wanting to leave, some beef w the media posturing by Collingwood ppl.

 

[Fossey]

I could understand your comments especially a Richmond supporter your still bitter over the Treloar deal. How many times did your club have to get rejected! To get the picture.
At the end of the day it does not make buisiness of football sence for the lions to let him walk.
Collingwood would loose yes but the biggest loosers would be Brisbane.
Whatever Mathews says, What kind of a message are you sending to potential draft prospects? Most likely are very negative and toxic one!
The lions need to cut there losses , and bank on keeping there youngsters from now on.
I think your sending a very negative message to any potential draft prospects or potential new recruits.
They need to trade Aish if it happens that they get a better offer for him and he agrees good on Brisbane.

Nah. Absolutely OK with letting him go to draft rather than trade for essentially nothing to Collingwood (what will they have to trade anyway). Is the right medium long term action. As it was, any player struggling to get a game in top 22 in an injury ravage, Brisbane side that finishes second last, is not a great loss. Greatest mistake was picking him in first place.

 

[Two Eyes]

No.

Freeman is leaving because he feels he has been mismanaged.

He is leaving for opportunity.

Aish is leaving for the bright lights.

The latter is worse than the former.

Yeah, and I'm sure the $$$ the Saints are throwing his way had nothing to do with it

Fair play, Saints saw an opportunity and took it, every clubs tries to do that, but it's not Mother Theresa you're recruiting.

 

[Two Eyes]

Nah. Absolutely OK with letting him go to draft rather than trade for essentially nothing to Collingwood (what will they have to trade anyway). Is the right medium long term action. As it was, any player struggling to get a game in top 22 in an injury ravage, Brisbane side that finishes second last, is not a great loss. Greatest mistake was picking him in first place.

Would something like Picks 22 and 26 count as 'nothing' in your book? Serious question. What if the pies trade into a pick in the teens and offer that?

The pies actually have a good track record with trades (going both ways) that are fair.

 

[Apex36]

That's all fine. I'm not criticising either player, except in the context of the post I was replying to.

My beef is w the mild hypocrisy of Balme criticising Brisbane on the one hand whilst knocking Freeman on the other.

No beef w Aish or Freeman wanting to leave, some beef w the media posturing by Collingwood ppl.

Learn the definition of hypocrasy.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Learn the definition of hypocrasy.

Found it.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hypocrasy

 

[Apex36]

Found it.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hypocrasy

My iPhone changed the spelling....

How odd

I normely spal gud I swer

 

[The 747]

Any Pies supporters invoked human rights or the UN yet?

 

[loki04]

Pick 15 plus spud. Blues offered their priority pick no. 2 plus a player.

Stevens refused to go there then ends up there anyway. But we didn't make the pies stronger for little return and he added nothing to the blues chances in the end.

And now we seem to get fair trades going each way.

This should be what brissy aim for. Push him to the draft if they must but then teams in the future will probably try and give up fair compensation(unless dodoro is involved).

15 plus Heath Scotland.

You wanted 15 and Didak.

 

[BPikkers]

Nah. Absolutely OK with letting him go to draft rather than trade for essentially nothing to Collingwood (what will they have to trade anyway). Is the right medium long term action. As it was, any player struggling to get a game in top 22 in an injury ravage, Brisbane side that finishes second last, is not a great loss. Greatest mistake was picking him in first place.

If he is hopeless you may as well get something for him. It's not as if you have a talented list or anything.

 

[Fossey]

It's a really good question and I think taking on the scenario where Collingwood get him for "nothing" (still using a draft pick) in the National draft is the best one to view the ultimatum in, worst case scenario for us and all.

Firstly you have to ask what the message actually is? "Don't leave us after 2 years when your contract expires" seems a bit brutish, basically saying we'll make your life as hard as possible if you try to leave the club, "abusive partner"-esque. "Don't nominate a specific club" works, we can basically send them to a state if it's for career reasons. Other reasons, health related for example, should require compassion anyway and supersede any policies we have in place.

In this specific case Aish ends up at Collingwood, so we haven't really given Aish a chance to even feel slightly annoyed, he still gets to the club he wants. All it sets is we're willing to give up a player for nothing.

Getting the AFL to look at the state of our club more closely must be the end goal, whether the solution is longer initial contracts for draftees, (or perhaps 2 years then club options) more funding for our facilities to get them up to AFL standard or a retention allowance/compensation picks. (both temporary fixes for me, we need to fix the club from the ground up, we need money from the State Government in all honesty) If the AFL/State governments take action then its a win for us.

Culture wise? To me, not a good move. If the issue is homesickness, what effect does it have on players psychologically if they feel quite literally trapped? They basically are faced with the option of staying in a state they hate for the start of their careers (4 years feels like a bloody long time to a young kid) or being painted as this villain that has to bugger off to the draft if they have the gall to leave early. It's a far cry from the "family" attitude we were taking into the start of last years trade period.

All in all it's a situation that supersedes Aish and even Collingwood, both parties really are stuck in the middle of our last stand against young players leaving the club. I personally believe, in the case this isn't posturing, we're making a huge mistake. We have had the majority of our players stay since the GH5, 8 out of 9, we're drafting smarter, we have a defined future. Sometimes we just have to cut our losses. What we do have to do in the future until a better option is found is draft smarter, pick more mature ( as in frame of mind, not necessarily age) players that are willing to stick it out for the club, manage players well and try to get them on long contracts ASAP. Easiest way to do that is give them game time, and manage their injuries well, worst case scenario, they leave, we get the best value for them because they've shown their talents. The NEAFL is a big problem for us, you have guns like Aish who have played at levels higher then NEAFL quality since they were 16, and then have to bugger off to our park level grounds to swelter in the NEAFL for a year, not fun. The draw of even the VFL for a player wanting to go to a Melbourne based club would be a small factor.

To me, ditch Aish for as much value as we can possibly get, 2 second rounders, maybe a player as well, fight for the best value we can possibly get. At the end of the day we should be a club where players know they'll be treated well if they stay or if they go, to me, that makes them feel more comfortable and in the end, probably makes them more likely to stay!!

The important thing is to know that I think most people involved with the club aren't taking a "**** Collingwood" approach, it really is just an action they've taken for the betterment of the club that happens to involve Collingwood. Still think we're posturing just quietly.

Reading back on this I feel I actually sort of used your question as a springboard for my own rant, hopefully I've still answered it though.

Your post is interesting, and covers a lot of good points. Disagree on key point regarding letting Aish go to draft. UNLESS we get a really decent trade offer .... And yes 2x 2nd rounders plus player would be OK, letting him go to draft is the RIGHT message. Might actually mean potential draft players may be truthful in future re not wanting to go to Brisbane so we don't waste picks in the future.

 

[Fossey]

Would something like Picks 22 and 26 count as 'nothing' in your book? Serious question. What if the pies trade into a pick in the teens and offer that?

The pies actually have a good track record with trades (going both ways) that are fair.

On the remote chance Collingwood could offer 2 x second rounders, that MAY be worth looking at, given the points value for drafting Academy picks. Anything less .... Let him walk to Draft.

 

[Crows4Eva]

On one hand, I think Brisbane would be stupid to let him go for nothing. On the other hand, I can respect them saying "enough is enough".

It's clear they're sick of young players walking out. What they need to do is figure out why it's happening. Some of it has been homesickness, but a couple of these guys appear to simply not want to play for Brisbane, something clearly has to change.

Seeing some of the comments guys like Rockliff and Hanley have made RE: guys leaving. Wouldn't surprise me if there's a toxic attitude among the team leaders towards guys who are out of contract and don't re-sign quickly, which would make them want out even more.

 

[Fossey]

Di

If he is hopeless you may as well get something for him. It's not as if you have a talented list or anything.

Didnt say he was hopeless & would prefer he stayed. Just that he is not critical & if we need to use the loss of him to send message, or even get future honest comments from future draft picks that they really don't want to go to Brisbane .. So we don't waste future picks, than it will be well worth it.

 

[Helix]

Nah. Absolutely OK with letting him go to draft rather than trade for essentially nothing to Collingwood (what will they have to trade anyway). Is the right medium long term action. As it was, any player struggling to get a game in top 22 in an injury ravage, Brisbane side that finishes second last, is not a great loss. Greatest mistake was picking him in first place.

Agreed. And besides, Collingwood made the rod for their own back. Worst team to trade with, period.

 

[Mick39]

Port asked for Pick 15 & Didak, we rightfully said no.

We offered Pick 15 & the Pick 12 from the 01 draft who got a Rising Star nomination that year and dominated Port in the 03 PF.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Agreed. And besides, Collingwood made the rod for their own back. Worst team to trade with, period.

We're not the ones refusing to even discuss a trade.

We've traded with a number of teams in the last few years and made win/win trades, e.g. Shaw/Adams, Lumumba/Clark/Varcoe, Wellingham to the eagles, even Beams/Pick 5-25 and Crisp.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Nah. Absolutely OK with letting him go to draft rather than trade for essentially nothing to Collingwood (what will they have to trade anyway). Is the right medium long term action. As it was, any player struggling to get a game in top 22 in an injury ravage, Brisbane side that finishes second last, is not a great loss. Greatest mistake was picking him in first place.

Two picks in the early 20s?

 

[Helix]

Di

Didnt say he was hopeless & would prefer he stayed. Just that he is not critical & if we need to use the loss of him to send message, or even get future honest comments from future draft picks that they really don't want to go to Brisbane .. So we don't waste future picks, than it will be well worth it.

Don't agree with this. Draftees should be grateful to the club that drafts them - this is what they wanted right? I reckon the contract should be 2+2 years, the club having the option. It is very rare that they are any good in two years, Bontempelli the exception IMO.

 

[Magpie Monopoly]

No.

Freeman is leaving because he feels he has been mismanaged.

He is leaving for opportunity.

Aish is leaving for the bright lights.

The latter is worse than the former.

What opportunity has he not been given?

This same bloke that is complaining about his mistreatment has been cited and acknowledged by the club as going out on weekdays and getting smashed.

He would still be at Collingwood if we had decided to pay his absurd asking price of a what, 200% salary increase when he hasn't played a game? Thats why he is leaving, because St Kilda thinks he warrants that.

Aish on the other hand is leaving because he isn't happy at Brisbane for a wide variety of reasons but not because he wants more money.

Freeman is giving up the opportunity to play at the biggest club in the country for money. While Aish refuses to waste his career playing infront of 3000 people a week. Cant really begrudge him for that.

 

[Mick39]

Don't agree with this. Draftees should be grateful to the club that drafts them - this is what they wanted right? I reckon the contract should be 2+2 years, the club having the option. It is very rare that they are any good in two years, Bontempelli the exception IMO.

What if a draftee is drafted to a club with a dubious culture?