The leaky faucet: is Hawthorn's defence inside 50 going to get out of control?

[tige19]

What, like Fremantle or Sydney?

Where are these other 'good sides' & why aren't they in the Top 4?

West Coast and Freo.. Even the doggies looked dangerous against us in Tassie, we simply dominated the inside 50s.

We are a brilliant side, we do have some slight weaknesses.. Big deal

 

[Brant]

West Coast and Freo.. Even the doggies looked dangerous against us in Tassie, we simply dominated the inside 50s.

We are a brilliant side, we do have some slight weaknesses.. Big deal

Didn't we smash freo & Footscray by 12+ goals each?

I know it's a sliding scale, but what constitutes 'dangerous' these days?

 

[lyndhurst]

Not just an issue with our defence. Half the problem remains that our champion midfield are mostly over 30 and slowing. Very hard for them to match back up and follow their opponents into defence when we turn the ball over. Much of the cats forward punch involved on ballers tearing into their forward half

 

[TheFourPillars]

I think it's almost completely to do with our game style. As mentioned above, we pressure the ball, and try to lock it in our forward line. This is highly effective, but the downside is it means there is less pressure if they do break through our press. As long as the effectiveness of our press and attack outweighs the downside of getting caught out the other side, it doesn't bother me too much.

There is no perfect defence, and if we changed things up, we would probably concede more inside fifties, but have opponents score less efficiently. But we would almost certainly have less inside fifties, and less pressure on their defence. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

This we are in the business of scoring not defending

 

[Upgrayedd]

We certainly leaked on the flanks.

 

[Brant]

This we are in the business of scoring not defending

Commentators last night (Richo in particular, I think) was quoting a HFC stat that we were running at 82 wins for 1 loss since 2010, when scoring more than 100 points. The 1 loss was when Tubby Porkins kicked that 55m bomb after the siren a couple of years back.

At (now) 83-1, I'm backing that system in.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Commentators last night (Richo in particular, I think) was quoting a HFC stat that we were running at 82 wins for 1 loss since 2010, when scoring more than 100 points. The 1 loss was when Tubby Porkins kicked that 55m bomb after the siren a couple of years back.

At (now) 83-1, I'm backing that system in.

Fricken hell you would be crazy not too given the back to back going for 3peat thing

 

[Pino]

It's typical slingshot where it occasionally comes out from our press. It doesn't win games but it will catch defenders out and make them look poor as they scramble. Yet it doesnt score enough reliably enough to matter, because its a rebound off our attack.

And one that seems to be almost "acceptable" in the 1st half, as we tend to score rapidly in the last 10 mins of the 3rd these days. I have been thinking it is almost a Mohammed Ali "Rumble in the Jungle" strategy.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Sydney Hawthorn
51 Inside 50s 52
2.32 In50s Per Scoring Shot 1.68
7.29 Inside 50s Per Goal 2.26
35.3% % In50s Score 59.6%
13.7% % In50s Goal 44.2%

This was in our Sydney game, and we all know how that ended up.

 

[Blaze Storm]

I hate to say it, but Spangher is needed.

doc is one of my first picked. unlucky atm

Doc is vital at the moment First picked for mine would be:

Mitchell, Hodge, Shiels, Doc, Lake (in that order)

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Doc is like the perfect Goo replacement we never had, and somehow he's on the outer

 

[Wundo]

Didn't we smash freo & Footscray by 12+ goals each?

I know it's a sliding scale, but what constitutes 'dangerous' these days?

Clarko would say any team not Hawthorn.

 

[TyHawk]

Sides are pushing the ball down flanks to open up our forward half zone. This makes our back flankers chase their opponents which opens up space behind them, which allows the oppos smartest and quickest forwards or mids to get plenty of time to have shots on goal or spot up a teammate on the move. And that's where we are struggling the most, when sides have forwards and mids constantly on the move. This is why we have been beaten with the contested footy, sides know this and take it as a great opportunity to get the Hawks on the back foot but I also think that the Hawks inside mids are told to be a step outside to make up for the quick release from the opposition as we don't have blistering pace in the guts and also to when we get the ball so that we have players as overlap options away from the stoppages. Remember people, Hawks were actually quite high in numbers with contested footy early in the season but we were getting sucked into the contest too much. Clarke has definitely changed this up realizing our defenders are getting burnt.

 

[HairyO]

How often have our back 6 played together this year?

They have 3 weeks to sort themselves out.

Stratton to towel Chad this week?

 

[threesixpio]

Is it just me or is our defence better when we pick, for a full game, a small defender in Duryea ?

Yes

 

[badgrill]

As Lakey said on one of the footy shows yesterday, they knew it would happen and we're happy to concede a few occasions where he was 1-1 on Hawkins or whatever, knowing they wouldn't be able to maintain it for the whole game.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Lots of sensible posts on this thread (what is going on? ). I agree our game style makes our defense a bit leaky at times but we back ourselves to kick a winning score at the other end. Usually works

 

[Davo23]

Lots of sensible posts on this thread (what is going on? ). I agree our game style makes our defense a bit leaky at times but we back ourselves to kick a winning score at the other end. Usually works

There's a lot of over analysing on this thread.

I also think other team's boards have many posters saying "why does Hawthorn just cut through our defence and score such easy goals?"

 

[Gralin]

Our structures are pretty sound really
We've allowed the third least inside 50s while having the most inside 50s
Allowed the second least amount of goals while kicking the most
Allowed the fifth least amount of marks inside 50 while having the most.

We try to play the game in our front half and more often than not succeed, our setup can allow easy goals if they we turn it over in the wrong part of the ground or they get past our press but most of the time teams don't and with how highly we score unlike Freo we can survive a few goals being kicked

It's not always pretty and I would expect a few extra wrinkles come finals but I reckon the highest scoring offense and second stingiest defence is pretty good, and we could end up first in both by the end of the year.

WC are second and third freo are 9th and 1st

I know who I'm more worried about out of those two

 

[MC_9]

As people have said, it is related to our game plan. Not our personal.

Because we press forward so hard that if a team can get through the press, they generally get over the top of our defence, into an open forward line allowing them to score easier.

 

[Jones Boy]

West Coast and Freo.. Even the doggies looked dangerous against us in Tassie, we simply dominated the inside 50s.

We are a brilliant side, we do have some slight weaknesses.. Big deal

Yep Superman does have his kryptonite!

 

[Clarkos_Soldier]

Im not sure analysing our game for opponents is a good thing. I personally think some opposition coaches are blind to our style. Anyway, Hawthorn plays a system that uses the middle of the wing area. That is, between the edge of the square and the sideline. This allows the team to have players with the option to choose the sideline or midfield as we progress forward. This has been incredibly effective. However, no plan is perfect. The issue with this style is that we combine it with a zone. This requires our backline to be high up to keep the ball in our offensive zone. That means the best way to kick goals against us is to slingshot from defence and take risks. When it comes off, Hawthorn defense is vulnerable because it is running back towards the defensive goals. Teams with smart forwards can kick goals by out manauevering our defenders.

To reduce the risk with this style, our defence covers the corridor on the way back, as you should. However, we give away the pockets. That's why opposition teams have lots of inside 50s but can't score as effectively as Hawthorn.

 

[QuietB]

I think it's almost completely to do with our game style. As mentioned above, we pressure the ball, and try to lock it in our forward line. This is highly effective, but the downside is it means there is less pressure if they do break through our press. As long as the effectiveness of our press and attack outweighs the downside of getting caught out the other side, it doesn't bother me too much.

There is no perfect defence, and if we changed things up, we would probably concede more inside fifties, but have opponents score less efficiently. But we would almost certainly have less inside fifties, and less pressure on their defence. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Good post. The alternative is Melbourne or Essendon. You can play as many defenders as you like to keep the opposition scoring efficiency down, but don't expect to score yourself.

 

[crazywildhorse]

Port highlighted this again, in the finals West Coast could rip us apart here. Especially in Perth.

 

[TyHawk]

Sides are pushing the ball down flanks to open up our forward half zone. This makes our back flankers chase their opponents which opens up space behind them, which allows the oppos smartest and quickest forwards or mids to get plenty of time to have shots on goal or spot up a teammate on the move. And that's where we are struggling the most, when sides have forwards and mids constantly on the move. This is why we have been beaten with the contested footy, sides know this and take it as a great opportunity to get the Hawks on the back foot but I also think that the Hawks inside mids are told to be a step outside to make up for the quick release from the opposition as we don't have blistering pace in the guts and also to when we get the ball so that we have players as overlap options away from the stoppages. Remember people, Hawks were actually quite high in numbers with contested footy early in the season but we were getting sucked into the contest too much. Clarke has definitely changed this up realizing our defenders are getting burnt.

Re posting this for good measure.