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The Live Strategy and Content Thread

Discussion in 'Poker' started by ashley12, Nov 15, 2011.

Put it out there
  1. checkraiseulite

    checkraiseulite All Australian

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    Ya, he should just be trying to get a cheap showdown if he has A10s, given my value range here crushes A10 and i'm folding all my bluffs.

    I doubt he was actively turning A10 into a bluff, he probably knew nothing about me and my b/f tendencies. It's just not worth it that deep when we had a bona fide fish on the table spewing BI's and he was old so I don't think he was that smart generally lol.

    I so wanted to shove but I couldn't bring myself to do it.

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  2. JuddsABlue

    JuddsABlue Club Legend

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    Guess I'll throw something up

    This is more of a line check though, dont think I was in any difficult spots throughout the hand

    Playing 2/3 while waiting for 2/5, havent played 2/3 in about 8 months so not really in tune with the standard.

    Villian 1 is a bad old reg, seen him there plenty of times.
    Villian 2 is a new face to me but seems to be worse than V1 just through his table mannerisms

    Stacks are $300 effective with V2 covering our equal stacks

    Hero is dealt 8:spade:8:diamond:
    V1 opens to $15 from UTG1, Hero calls (MP), V2 calls (CO), folds.

    Flop ($50) A:spade: Q:spade: 2:diamond:
    V1 pauses for a moment and checks, Hero checks, V2 doesnt look like he knows what to do and checks

    Turn 8:heart:
    V1 bets $40, Hero?

    At the moment it feels like I'm trying to draw blood from a stone, not sure how to get max value out of 2 V's who dont seem that interested in the hand. Also small chance V1 is slow playing top/middle set.

    So anyway, betting advice considering a bad V2 behind and another street etc
  3. ashley12

    ashley12 WompingRins

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    I raise to $110 or so attempting to set up a river shove.

    Personally I think that your comments RE: V2 its likely that he has some kind of draw, that giving a cheap card too is probably bad, since almost every river card will be a bet/call for the most part.

    Not folding at any point, happy to get this hand against both players.

    Im curious as to what other people think though.

    HU I would probably call, and bomb the river if checked too to rep a busted draw.
  4. checkraiseulite

    checkraiseulite All Australian

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    Tank and then say "alright old man, let's gamble" and shove.

    Or just raise to $90 with the intention of shoving all non-spade rivers if v2 comes along too.

    If he shoves over the $90 I'd possibly consider folding, checking this flop when he's opened utg1 in such a limp friendly game is suspicious.
  5. ashley12

    ashley12 WompingRins

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    Assuming he opens AQ everywhere, and treats it the same way as AA and QQ, combinatrically we have to call down I think if we raise and he shoves.

    And thats before we consider LOLplayed AKs.
  6. JuddsABlue

    JuddsABlue Club Legend

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    I think raising wouldve been better in hindsight, at the time I felt like V2 was done with the hand and nobody had indicated at all they were on a flush draw. I doubt V1 is checking flop and leading turn with a bare f/draw. If we are putting V2 in a flush draw we are just plain guessing, checking behind means nothing obv.

    After V1s lead I put him on something weakish like AT/AJ that he didnt want to play a big hand with, maybe KK

    I flatted the $40 and V2 came along...

    River ($130) 6:spade:
    V1 checks pretty quickly, Hero bets $90, V2 folds and V1 pauses and calls and I'm good

    River is pretty std once V1 checks, I dont think I wouldve gottan $110 from V1 though
  7. ashley12

    ashley12 WompingRins

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    I was going to say nuke river, then saw the flush draw got there, so I am not quite sure what to say.

    I like the river bet sizing, and the fact you bet in general. So many people (bad players) would do the ZOMG CHECK AND CALL!!! which is a horrific line vs a standard 2/3 or 2/5 player for the most part.
  8. checkraiseulite

    checkraiseulite All Australian

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    What are the ethics when a player is constantly unintentionally showing me their hand preflop?

    Do I have an obligation to tell them more than once? Or to tell the dealer?

    The first time it happened I told him to protect his hand better, he hasn't taken my advice so what's the deal after that?
  9. JuddsABlue

    JuddsABlue Club Legend

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    Terrible spot lol

    Most will say once you've warned him once and he continues to do it then it's his problem but nobody actually sitting in the chair would be comfortable

    It usually happens in the 5/6 seat so if possible I'd move just to end it becuase it can become very distracting

    I played a hand knowing someone's cards when he kept showing. I was folding too often because of it (didn't want to play speculative hands if he limped becuase I often knew one or two of his cards) until eventually I had KQ against a bare ace of his

    I flopped a queen and Cbet and took it down and said again (already said once) I knew you had an ace be careful

    He didn't hang around much after, can't remember if I saw anymore of his cards

    Def a real pet hate and distraction at the table
  10. checkraiseulite

    checkraiseulite All Australian

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    I'm not leaving the seat as it's a pretty huge advantage anyway given how bad this guy was (I'm to his direct left).

    He's bluffing a heap and being very active in general.
  11. ashley12

    ashley12 WompingRins

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    Im telling him once, and exactly once, and if he wants to not listen then that is his problem.

    Im not going to make a huge effort to see someones cards, but if they hold them up and im trying to watch the actual action (so Im in the 6 seat, he is in the 5, and im watching the 3 make action) then that isnt my fault, and I dont feel that bad about it.

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  12. b0ydman

    b0ydman Team Captain

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    most of us play because we think we are either better or more clever than our opponent

    stuff like this just validates it

    if he puts in money and then says "oh hang on, can i change my mind" would you let him do it...just once?

    would you let a mugger pick up his knife if you were being mugged or in a knife fight?

    until you realise a cash game is a fist-fight, just non content while sitting down using chips and cards- you wont win

    dont even tell him.

    in fact i will use ANY advantage and would PAY someone to swap seats with them to use such an advantage

    that said i play home games and have marked the deck. i know every card and act as dealer, making it even easier to know who has what. i play with donkeys for fun and its a $30 night all up. %4 unlimited rebuys until blinds eat up the buy in.

    i do it because i specifically want to see if it makes a difference knowing the cards. answer: sometimes, but rarely. still cant predict the cards that will come out. and as we know the river gives, and the river takes away (edit: at end of night if i clean up and win i split the money back and thank everyone for the company- and i provide 5 times as much food and drink than the $10 they might be losing to me if the split doesnt even out)

    don't tell him, unless you don't look for tells

    i mean isn't a tell exactly the same thing? you know when he rocks his right foot and sits up that he's.....

    get over the scruples.
  13. checkraiseulite

    checkraiseulite All Australian

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    a decently sized cash game with a huge fish in it is nothing like a fist-fight (except maybe to get in the game).

    would i grant a fish some leeway? i wouldn't think twice about it.
  14. b0ydman

    b0ydman Team Captain

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    agree re their showing cards . yes, once only,. it is_our_decency

    of course do we tell everyone else at the table if we knew those cards?

    do we fold that hand where we have seen his cards?

    do we tell him when he has a tell we think we picked up on?
  15. ashley12

    ashley12 WompingRins

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    Depends on the leeway.

    Another good Ash storytime moment...

    There was a complete n00b at poker that came across to play that was in his words "A Caribbean Stud professional" (CSP). So he sits in LHE with around $300, runs pretty hot despite playing 80/12 and when we get down to only the two of us left, he has around $1500, and asks to play HU.

    Despite the outrageously terrible rake structure, I decide **** it, Il play, mainly because since we were 5 handed he hadn't yet folded preflop over a 3 hour sample, and CSP has been horrible with regards to calling down way to lightly.

    About two hours in, there was a hand where I opened A4s, he called from the BB.

    Flop A43 and I bet/3bet. He calls

    Turn was an 8. He check calls

    River was a 4.

    I bet and get in a 3bet. He 4s and before I can 5, he shows me 84o.

    I chose to just flat rather then 5! (he knew I had seen his cards, so there is no way anyone could 6!) to keep up being a good sport and keep getting action, since I was such a big favourite. He thanked me, bought me a drink, and we played on for around 6 hours, and I took him (and the later third person that joined) I think for around 50BB, or $1000.

    Am I being results orientated? A little bit, but the old saying "you can shear a sheep many times, but only skin a sheep once" applies just as well to poker then any other industry or game.

    This story ends sadly, because the next night CSP comes in again, we have a full game that is just awesome, and on one hand he calls the river. Player Z opens up some hand which is one pair, CSP shows me and one other guy bottom two, and then mucks facedown, and reaches for the pot. Dealer obviously rules the pots Z's, and the floor agress (the right decision) and CSP spits the dummy and leaves, never to be seen again. Limit HoldEm died about 2 months later...:(

    /cool story bro
  16. checkraiseulite

    checkraiseulite All Australian

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    Definitely.

    If this happened on a $2/3 table I'm probably going to relentlessly crush the guy using the knowledge of his cards against him because it's unlikely we're ever going to get a whole heap of play against each other in the future. If he loses a few k and quits $2/3 then I don't really care about it, i'd rather make as much as I can as quickly as I can at that particular moment in time.

    On a $5/5, $5/10 or even a $2/5 table I'll be little more tactful about how I go about it.

    I guess, like pretty much everything in poker, it's situational.

    Generally though I'll err on the side of letting the fish do whatever he wants to maximise his enjoyment of the game. I'm not going to cry about string-betting, acting out of turn or make a huge deal about making them show first or whatever 95% of the time.
  17. checkraiseulite

    checkraiseulite All Australian

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    definitely not.

    depends, i wouldn't be hero calling him with bottom pair when we know he's bluffing. but if we have a credible hand then why not?

    no, but whether it's an actual tell or not is another thing.
  18. ashley12

    ashley12 WompingRins

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    Provided I had already warned someone once, I would still at least call with 100% of my range that beats his. And on the flipside, I am folding the second nuts if he has it.

    Ash fun hand #2 for the day from about a year ago.

    Ash opens 99, gets limped called in one spot by J4o, and I see his hand. I had warned him prior and anyway, what can you do.

    Flop misses us both, something like T62 or something. He checks, I check back trying to induce (he had been bluffy) knowing I am giving him a free-shot at a 3 outer.

    Turn is a king, he bets 2/3 pot I just call, again to induce.

    River is an ace. He checks :(. I think for a bit, and bet since there is a non-zero chance he raises (albeit small).

    He calls, I win, everyone has a collective look of WTF? Ash scoops a nice medium size pot and collects another soul...
  19. ashley12

    ashley12 WompingRins

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    Interesting spot from tonight.

    Villian I have played with the last two nights. He is probably top 10% of players in the pool, he is relatively tight and aggressive for the most part, and isnt limp happy like most. Have seen him value bet hands less then top pair, and bet-fold flops, but not turns or rivers (small sample)

    Im stereotypically Ash12, more aggressive then most, kinda LAGgy, rarely limping, raising only 4x which is the bottom end of the table in terms of PFR size.

    He has $400, I cover.

    I open in MP 8 handed with XxXx. Only he calls HU from the BB.

    FLOP: $42: JT4 with two diamonds, the 4 is not a diamond.

    He checks, I check back.

    TURN: $42: 8r

    He bets $35, I call

    RIVER: $112: 7 flush misses

    He bets $40, I make it $165 with every single hand I get to the river in this fashion.

    Good, bad, or meh?

    I had QTo for what it was worth...
  20. ashley12

    ashley12 WompingRins

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    Another hand, less exciting.

    Random player, standard 35yo tradie type, limps, I raise to 25 with JJ, a few calls, he calls. He is playing around $500, the others between 300 and 500.

    Flop is 4 or 5 ways.

    FLOP: $100: KKJ two spades

    Tradie donks $25 first to act, Im next to act.

    Call or raise?
  21. b0ydman

    b0ydman Team Captain

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    call

    call call call
    every day of the week

    you are going to take 1000 to 1500 on this hand



    FWIW the red card is because i said on a thread that 2 of our players (oshea and jacobs) are the worst players ever to play AFL

    that kind of gets a warning on my marshamallow sensitive board

    then i said why did i get a warning for that?

    which was 2 warnings

    then i said but this joker here called pearce a **** person

    which was 3 warnings.

    ergo another red card

    as long as i make it to an hour after the game without a red card im happy

    this post here will probably get me another yellow

    that sentence above will make it red

    cya
  22. ashley12

    ashley12 WompingRins

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    Do you think he is going bet, and then fold a king to a raise? (Presuming he has a king)
  23. checkraiseulite

    checkraiseulite All Australian

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    What is he donking into 5 people with?

    What is he donk/folding into 5 people with?

    I'd raise to $75ish in the hope of inducing a re-raise from either him or someone else behind you.

    The old 'he'd never raise with a boat' mentality might cause people to spaz.
  24. ashley12

    ashley12 WompingRins

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    Basic thought process was he always has a king, is never folding, and I need to get the money in now rather then getting a card like the Ts on the turn.

    I made it $85, folded back to him, he open folds T7o :rolleyes:.

    CRuL, thoughts on the other hand above it?
  25. checkraiseulite

    checkraiseulite All Australian

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    I quite like it.

    You have quite a few hands you can credibly rep here and it's very tough for him to call without a 9.

    Tough to definitively say without having some insight into what he's likely to defend with v you though.

    On the whole I guess why not? It's good for image building regardless.