The militarisation of the police

[MaddAdam]

At 3am on 28 May, Alecia Phonesavanh was asleep in the room she was temporarily occupying together with her husband and four children in the small town of Cornelia, Georgia. Her baby, 18-month-old Bou Bou, was sleeping peacefully in his cot.

Suddenly there was a loud bang and several strangers dressed in black burst into the room. A blinding flash burst out with a deafening roar from the direction of the cot. Amid the confusion, Phonesavanh could see her husband pinned down and handcuffed under one of the men in black, and while her son was being held by another. Everyone was yelling, screaming, crying. “I kept asking the officers to let me have my baby, but they said shut up and sit down,” she said.

As the pandemonium died down, it became clear that the strangers in black were a Swat team of police officers from the local Habersham County force – they had raided the house on the incorrect assumption that occupants were involved in drugs. It also became clear to Phonesavanh that something had happened to Bou Bou and that the officers had taken him away.

“They told me that they had taken my baby to the hospital. They said he was fine he had only lost a tooth, but they wanted him in for observation,” Phonesavanh said.

When she got to the hospital she was horrified by what she saw. Bou Bou was in a medically-induced coma in the intensive care unit of Brady Memorial hospital. “His face was blown open. He had a hole in his chest that left his rib-cage visible.”


http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/jun/24/military-us-police-swat-teams-raids-aclu

 

[Floor Pie]

Holy s**t.

The Swat team that burst into the Phonesavanh’s room looking for a drug dealer had deployed a tactic commonly used by the US military in warzones, and increasingly by domestic police forces across the US. They threw an explosive device called a flashbang that is designed to distract and temporarily blind suspects to allow officers to overpower and detain them. The device had landed in Bou Bou’s cot and detonated in the baby’s face.

 

[MaddAdam]

Smiling Buddha - as you know I don't agree with your "dez gonna take our gunz" bullshit but the increasing militarisation of US - and elsewhere - "law enforcement" is of major concern IMO.

Holy s**t.

Yep, horrific.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Is there a time in human history when the government of a people had a monopoly on firepower and didn't abuse it? An example where 'things got better' and gov/police rescinded the firepower (and disregard for civil liberties) they had built up ostensibly to 'protect' the people?

Seriously, is there an example?

 

[MaddAdam]

Is there a time in human history when the government of a people had a monopoly on firepower and didn't abuse it? An example where 'things got better' and gov/police rescinded the firepower (and disregard for civil liberties) they had built up ostensibly to 'protect' the people?

Seriously, is there an example?

This isn't a thread about the philosophy of an armed populace.

Given Australian police tend to follow US trends slavishly - right down to the VicPol changing their unforms to "NYPD style" black - I wonder if we will see similar here. Certainly VicPol at least tend to deploy the Soggies a lot more.

But we don't have the same mountain of used gear like MRAPs to dump on our police. Or the same multitude of police forces.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

This isn't a thread about the philosophy of an armed populace.

Given Australian police tend to follow US trends slavishly - right down to the VicPol changing their unforms to "NYPD style" black - I wonder if we will see similar here. Certainly VicPol at least tend to deploy the Soggies a lot more.

But we don't have the same mountain of used gear like MRAPs to dump on our police. Or the same multitude of police forces.

Maybe, but we don't have the money or equipment. I think federal grants at the county level total nearly 100 billion over the last couple of years. These are for serious military grade hardware, much repatriated from Iraq and Afghanistan.

They also have crime/drug trafficking problems that have been used as a cover. So unless Abbott goes on a crazy spending spree and radically changes laws governing police armament and protocols, then we should avoid the same degree of militarisation. Who knows though given his desire to bring in new anti terror laws and beef up "security".

 

[MaddAdam]

Maybe, but we don't have the money or equipment. I think federal grants at the county level total nearly 100 billion over the last couple of years. These are for serious military grade hardware, much repatriated from Iraq and Afghanistan.

They also have crime/drug trafficking problems that have been used as a cover. So unless Abbott goes on a crazy spending spree and radically changes laws governing police armament and protocols, then we should avoid the same degree of militarisation. Who knows though given his desire to bring in new anti terror laws and beef up "security".

I think we'll see the same trend continuing, just on a lower scale. As in, we'll have the same stuff, just not deployed as widely.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Chilling

 

[pokerspiv]

Is there a time in human history when the government of a people had a monopoly on firepower and didn't abuse it? An example where 'things got better' and gov/police rescinded the firepower (and disregard for civil liberties) they had built up ostensibly to 'protect' the people?

Seriously, is there an example?

Perestroika maybe?

 

[pokerspiv]

This isn't a thread about the philosophy of an armed populace.

Given Australian police tend to follow US trends slavishly - right down to the VicPol changing their unforms to "NYPD style" black - I wonder if we will see similar here. Certainly VicPol at least tend to deploy the Soggies a lot more.

But we don't have the same mountain of used gear like MRAPs to dump on our police. Or the same multitude of police forces.

The US and Australia are very different in that US Police are charged with enforcing law on an armed populace. Australian police have no justification for asking for similar abilities since they are comparatively extremely unlikely to encounter any armed civilians in the course of carrying out their duties.

 

[Long Live HFC]

This isn't a thread about the philosophy of an armed populace.

perhaps not, but it's kind of implicit to the discussion don't you think? The kind of armed resistance you may encounter as a police officer in the US is far greater than most comparable nations, and this engenders a civil arms race of sorts. Doesn’t excuse misuse of power/technology/policy, or bad intel, but explains the militarisation to an extent.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

It's only a matter of time, end of the day as governments gain more and more power they will return to what they were when they had almost unquestionable power.

People forget the rights and controls we have today are fairly new concepts. In fact throughout history permanent police forces have almost exclusively been used to protect the ruling body from the people. An ideal that still exists today in Australia.

Let's look at a police officers role in Australia, since 1901 every constable of NSW has sworn and oath. "to find criminals and bring them before the court"

This is a far cry from the Hollywood line of "serve and protect" it simply is not in the mandate of policing, police are here to take down anyone the government decrees to be a "criminal" and they do a fair bit of brainwashing to recruits to get it.

It is incorrect to say the police are being militarised because there's no mandate that police be this nice little bobby from the UK and it flies in the face of what policing has been for a long time (manly beating the s**t out of people)

In fact the military was originally shifted from policing duties because they had a nasty habit of deserting when asked to quell uprisings of their own people.

The More extensive the police force, it's powers and the level of force they is tied to the power welded by the government.

If cops are getting out of hand it's a good indication that the government has almost unbridled power.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Holy s**t.

"The Swat team that burst into the Phonesavanh’s room looking for a drug dealer had deployed a tactic commonly used by the US military in warzones, and increasingly by domestic police forces across the US. They threw an explosive device called a flashbang that is designed to distract and temporarily blind suspects to allow officers to overpower and detain them. The device had landed in Bou Bou’s cot and detonated in the baby’s face."

Yeah. This was the damage done to the child's face.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...-flash-grenade-into-playpen-during-drug-raid/

"They said he was fine he had only lost a tooth", eh?

 

[hardon]

Yeah. This was the damage done to the child's face.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...-flash-grenade-into-playpen-during-drug-raid/

"They said he was fine he had only lost a tooth", eh?

i reckon the police have a lifelong little fan there eh? honestly, it's not hard to imagine he will grow up to despise the pigs.

 

[scotty13]

Thats disgusting!

I hope the family seek justice and sue the s**t out of the police department!

 

[Aed0s]

Policeman: "Excuse me, but do you have any narcotics on you? This is a routine check-up. Place your paws on the wall and where I can see them. I repeat, this is a routine check-up".

Dog: "Roof roof" (I hope he doesn't find the stash of cocaine in my bottom end!).

 

[medusala]

read this on a couple of blog sites. What are they going to do? Shoot everyone twice?

http://www.businessinsider.com/dhs-...-million-200-million-40-caliber-rounds-2013-1

Last March we found 450 million rounds of .40 caliber ammunition slated for delivery to the Department of Homeland Service and its agencies.
Weeks later we found an additional request for 750 million rounds. The news wasn't reported much, though the order forms are still floating around.
It's not as demand for ammunition by the DHS is terribly new. Manufacturer Winchester posted an award to its site in 2009 agreeing to deliver 200 million rounds for the agency over five years. But if that's accurate it's an additional order that's still coming in on top of the others

 

[Long Live HFC]

They advertise for tender for maximum purchases of ammunition because it saves the government money.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

The old 'saves the government money' line.

 

[Long Live HFC]

so, these purchases have been going on for quite some time. what nefarious schemes have the purchased ammunition ended up being used for exactly?

 

[clogged]

perhaps not, but it's kind of implicit to the discussion don't you think? The kind of armed resistance you may encounter as a police officer in the US is far greater than most comparable nations, and this engenders a civil arms race of sorts. Doesn’t excuse misuse of power/technology/policy, or bad intel, but explains the militarisation to an extent.

Further, it negates claims that arming the populace is necessary to prevent against tyranny, because the state will always be able to arm itself better if it chooses to do so.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Further, it negates claims that arming the populace is necessary to prevent against tyranny, because the state will always be able to arm itself better if it chooses to do so.

exactly.

The whole “second amendment protects civilians from tyranny” is so stupid. If enough of “the people” really want to overthrow the government, they don’t need any weapons. additionally, it’s kind of assumed that the civilian populace would be “as one” resisting their government. Why? I would suggest it is likely that some of those people would be supportive of their government, and prefer to bear arms against those that oppose it (civilian civil war).

The difference between sedition or treason etc would really depend on the numbers. As above, if the numbers are on the side of the populace, they don’t need any weapons. And if the numbers are not, on what basis/right/foundation can the bearers of arms legally/rightfully declare their government illegitimate? And as you rightly point out, if the populace do not have the numbers, the state will always be able to bring more force to bear than any militia.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Would you be willing to storm peoples houses if you knew they owned guns and weren't afraid to use them?

Tyranny depends on foot soldiers doing the establishment's bidding.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Would you be willing to storm peoples houses if you knew they owned guns and weren't afraid to use them?

um, see OP?

 

[Smiling Buddha]

What?