The minimum wage

[Pessimistic]

% of median wage


Do you actually understand reversion to mean? Google it. Then China hard landing. You cant regulate/ manage away the business cycle (only magic pudding sorts believe that). Bigger the boom, typically bigger the bust. That isn't ideology, that is historical reality.

See evidence given to UK low pay commission when Tony Blair introduced a minimum wage.

"your constant, inaccurate, ideologically-inspired scare-mongering"

Inaccurate. Lol, you have zero clue on economics and finance. Shown to be wrong time and time again. Yet still you clog threads with your cheerleading. Pavlovian. Pathetic.

You remind me of all the Goldilocks economy twits pre GFC.

Theres a change to the economy when you introduce a minimum wage ? of course there is.

Can you also understand there'd probably be a bigger change when you take it away ? your medicine in the OP would be far worse to the economy than the hypothetical diseise it may catch if you don't

 

[RUNVS]

and how exactly can people pay their huge rental prices if they can't even earn the current minimum wage? Australia is one of the least affordable countries in the world and as a result we need a very high minimum wage so people on it can at least afford to put a roof over their heads.

 

[RUNVS]

I've spent plenty of time in the real world and have worked for the minimum wage.

Conclusion - If you're on the minimum wage (and you're not a student) you're either too lazy or too stupid to increase your pay grade.

Hopefully the people working in your nursing home in the future are aware of your attitude here.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Where has reducing the minimum wage ever lead to greater economic equality?

Lowering it is just code for putting more money into the pockets of those who already have plenty of it.

 

[B4Bear]

and how exactly can people pay their huge rental prices if they can't even earn the current minimum wage? Australia is one of the least affordable countries in the world and as a result we need a very high minimum wage so people on it can at least afford to put a roof over their heads.

You can boil the argument down to '* em all'.

People who call for the minimum wage to be lowered or allowed to fall behind purchasing power are ALWAYS the well off.

Where has reducing the minimum wage ever lead to greater economic equality?

Economic equality also equates to a more even distribution of power (Power Equality), something the 'Lifters' (is there a bigger arse-clown than Hockey?) will never allow. After all, who really thinks that a 'leaner' (yeah, Hockey is an arse-clown) has the right to a decent wage whereby they can be both happy and productive in Australia.

So the Proles will just have to get used to being controlled by noxious toads like Gina.

$2.00/hr here we come.

P.S. If you have a negatively geared house, * off you leaner and give my taxes back to the government; there is an economic catastrophe occurring don't you know?

 

[Gus Poyet]

Lower taxes significantly so a lowering of the minimum wage is more feasible.

 

[medusala]

Lowering it is just code for putting more money into the pockets of those who already have plenty of it.

More money will go to those who are priced out of the labour market.

People who call for the minimum wage to be lowered or allowed to fall behind purchasing power are ALWAYS the well off.

Another person who doesn't understand the argument.

$2.00/hr here we come.

Another economics thread full of epic misology

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

More money will go to those who are priced out of the labour market.

$12 an hour jobs? Welfare pays more.

 

[RightorKhan]

Except it already is the "minimum wage" that's why the bogans who made that image are so incredibly stupid. What you're proposing is to reform the minimum wage to an amount that's technically below the minimum wage. Now that's clear this would also mean the standards of education, motivation, skills etc would have to drop equal to the amount the wage does for workers not to be underpaid.

The black hole in productively comes from greedy low iq leaners at the top paying less of their wage in tax than the less fortunate working class. Big companies are the cancer as they refuse to pay their fair share in tax and wages. 1 person can't output his product to 5 million customers, and that's why 1 person doesn't deserve the revenue from 5 million customers yet we allow it. If people stopped stealing other peoples livelihood in the name of greed then we'd have more smaller business rather than a handful of corporations. Paying a lot more than 7% tax.

 

[Puddy]

We have the higest cost of living in the world, thats why we have a higher minimum wage. We need to target beaurocrats, not the working class

 

[Maggie5]

Reduce the minimum wage, increase homelessness and poverty, great idea.
Nobel prize worthy.
Think that those that advocate it should as an experiment give it a try for 6 months and come back and report to the forum.

 

[Play by Numbers]

If the big employers want to lower the minimum wage, stop tax avoiding and denying the country billions in tax revenue.

As it is, they siphon billions to tax havens, are increasing automation, especially in retail, supermarket and service sector, so this means less jobs and any savings made from wage cuts will just be banked.

 

[swans37]

% of median wage


Do you actually understand reversion to mean? Google it. Then China hard landing. You cant regulate/ manage away the business cycle (only magic pudding sorts believe that). Bigger the boom, typically bigger the bust. That isn't ideology, that is historical reality.

See evidence given to UK low pay commission when Tony Blair introduced a minimum wage.

".

I'm unsure of what historical reality you are living in, but i'm not really aware of many reputable economists who take the Austrian view in regards to business cycles. Empirical evidence seems to mostly point towards booms having no effect on the size of the bust, (see milton friedman's plucking model). Unless you think friedman is a magic pudding sort?

On the minimum wage front the current literature mostly supports that view that small increases in the minimum wage have a negligible effect on employment levels. (obligatory card krueger reference) I'm not sold on the way your are connecting minimum wage levels to macro stability i think it seems all a bit tenuous.

 

[CyrilDaSquirrel]

and how exactly can people pay their huge rental prices if they can't even earn the current minimum wage? Australia is one of the least affordable countries in the world and as a result we need a very high minimum wage so people on it can at least afford to put a roof over their heads.

If you look at the top of the chart, you'll see "PPP" which stands for "purchasing power parity". That means they've adjusted the wages for the cost of food, energy, housing, etc. across the different countries to give a fair comparison.

 

[medusala]

. Empirical evidence seems to mostly point towards booms having no effect on the size of the bust, .

See housing markets in Japan, Ireland, Spain, US etc.

Plenty of evidence for reversion to mean.

I'm unsure of what historical reality you are living in, but i'm not really aware of many reputable economists who take the Austrian view in regards to business cycles

Depends on who you consider reputable. I'm not aware of any reputable economists for example who believe in the Keynesian magic pudding.

 

[swans37]

See housing markets in Japan, Ireland, Spain, US etc.

Plenty of evidence for reversion to mean.



Depends on who you consider reputable. I'm not aware of any reputable economists for example who believe in the Keynesian magic pudding.

Milton Friedman is a keynesian now? That is certainly news to me. Again you are wrong the intensity of the recession is generally a good predictor of the intensity of the recovery as the empirical evidence in regards to real gdp (which is the correct measure) shows. Here is a one of many papers providing continued evidence for the plucking model and covers the gfc ( http://home.gwu.edu/~tsinc/Asymmetry.pdf). Again nothing i'm saying here is remotely "keynesian" this is straight out of chicago. The monetarists at least bother with empiricism and austrian business cycle theory fails the empirical test.

 

[Gough]

Friedman's great, to get your economy in gear all you have to do is torture, and murder tens of thousand of your citizens first, the South American experiment is the only place Chicago School economics has even approached success. Milton enjoyed it though, plebs had it coming.

 

[medusala]

Milton Friedman is a keynesian now?

Noone is claiming that. As for the GFC, odd that so few predicted it (a number of Austrian types did)

The monetarists at least bother with empiricism and austrian business cycle theory fails the empirical test.

There is a reason they don't bother. They see economics as a social science.

Again you are wrong the intensity of the recession is generally a good predictor of the intensity of the recovery

As in reversion to trend?

Friedman's great, to get your economy in gear all you have to do is torture, and murder tens of thousand of your citizens first, the South American experiment is the only place Chicago School economics has even approached success. Milton enjoyed it though, plebs had it coming.

Yawn. The usual cliché and conveniently forgetting Milts advice to the Chinese etc. Monetarism influenced policy elsewhere eg UK under Thatcher.

You would be better served targeting your bile at the rabid Jew hating pervert. Or does he get a free pass?

"[Jews] have in them deep-rooted instincts that are antagonistic and therefore repulsive to the European, and their presence among us is a living example of the insurmountable difficulties that exist in merging race characteristics, in making cats love dogs"

 

[swans37]

Noone is claiming that. As for the GFC, odd that so few predicted it (a number of Austrian types did)



There is a reason they don't bother. They see economics as a social science.



As in reversion to trend?

It is a reversion but the causality is reversed that is rather important. Austrians cry that the sky is falling in every year, if you make the same predictiction every year you get it right by chance every now and then. People forget all the years they are wrong . Look if you don't like empirical methodology i guess you can just you can just put your head in the sand and ignore the real world while you prax it out. But I think the austrian schools rejection of mathematical methodology speaks more to the shortcomings of the armchair austrian then it is a serious criticism of the field. There were relevant in the 30's move on. There is plenty of fair better economic analysis floating around that still matches to your political priors!

 

[medusala]

Look if you don't like empirical methodology i guess you can just you can just put your head in the sand and ignore the real world while you prax it out.

Economic models and the real world are hardly great companions.

http://www.bdlive.co.za/articles/20...0045DDC0F9AFC6D12A2DC331546BD81.present2.bdfm

"The evidence on the folly of forecasting is overwhelming," says Montier. "Economists haven't a clue. The three blind mice have more credibility than any macro-forecaster at seeing what is coming. The analysts are no better. My colleague, Rui Antunes, has examined the accuracy of analysts. In the US, the average 24-month forecast error is 93%, and the average 12-month forecast error is 47% over the period 2001-06. The data for Europe are no less disconcerting. The average 24-month forecast error is 95%, and the average 12- month forecast error is 43%.

 

[swans37]

Don't cite guys from GMO if you want to push an austrian viewpoint,montier has articles where he talks about deriving profits from a kaleckian (neo-marxist/post-keynesian) viewpoint, i thought you didn't like practitioners of magic pudding economics? Montier is about as far from an austrian as you can get. That article was a criticism of analyst forecasts at banks and i agree analysts at banks are bad at predicting anything accurately. This is not a criticism of modern mainstream macro modelling but is rather a more specific criticism of approaches taken within the finance industry for investment, a macro model is not necessarily constructed with the goal of being an short term price predictor nor does it have to be to have use. (personally i think they shouldn't have called bank analysts economists )

 

[medusala]

Don't cite guys from GMO if you want to push an austrian viewpoint

The point is simple. Economic forecasting is typically rubbish.

This is not a criticism of modern mainstream macro modelling

Sure it is. Treasury, CBO etc are hardly better (and arguably worse due to political interference).

i thought you didn't like practitioners of magic pudding economics?

Nope but Montier is worth a read. I used to work at Dresdner when he and Albert Edwards were there. Albert well worth a read too.

I don't quite know how you can say economic models / forecasting are rubbish and be a Keynesian. Seems rather contradictory to me.

Edwards on China

“Unfortunately, the world has seemed so reliant on China as a growth engine, I think this will accentuate the disappointment even more when it hard lands.”

Once the bubble bursts, “Canada might be a lightly done muffin, but Australia will be absolutely toast.”

 

[Todman]

Reduce the minimum wage, increase homelessness and poverty, great idea.
Nobel prize worthy.
Think that those that advocate it should as an experiment give it a try for 6 months and come back and report to the forum.

Grandstand statement, Can you prove it?

 

[Gough]

Grandstand statement, Can you prove it?

What would you work for mate? $10 an hour would see you right? Or is it just others who should settle for less?

 

[Todman]

What would you work for mate? $10 an hour would see you right? Or is it just others who should settle for less?

The question is
Does a lower minimum wage increase homelessness and poverty?

Why do governments increase their taxes and charges every year? It adds to the cost of living and its hard to avoid paying.
Why do governments cross subsidize segments of the same industry? it pushes up the costs to consumers.