The next country

[FPPF]

It has been exploited by the West for the better part of a thousand years.

Not by an American lead western world.

 

[MaddAdam]

Well yeh, and it's now being exploited by the West.

Its also being pushed by the proponents too.

The thread is about "the next country".

Well, "Shiastan, or the Shia Crescent now exists de facto, if not de jure, in the ME.

Read an article today about how Hezbollah and Jabhat/Ahrar Al Sham are organising literal population swaps, hundreds of thousands of people moving to "safer" areas, aka, agreed ethnic cleansing, to reflect these realities.

Lines on the map don't mean s**t and neither does being recognised at the UN.

The Kurds learned that long ago.

What counts is being bad arse enough to keep the neighbours away from your lawn.

 

[FPPF]

Its also being pushed by the proponents too.

The thread is about "the next country".

Well, "Shiastan, or the Shia Crescent now exists de facto, if not de jure, in the ME.

Read an article today about how Hezbollah and Jabhat/Ahrar Al Sham are organising literal population swaps, hundreds of thousands of people moving to "safer" areas, aka, agreed ethnic cleansing, to reflect these realities.

Lines on the map don't mean s**t and neither does being recognised at the UN.

The Kurds learned that long ago.

What counts is being bad arse enough to keep the neighbours away from your lawn.

Do you think we will see borders being redrawn in the Middle East?

 

[MaddAdam]

Not by an American lead western world.

The Brits and French did it massively?

The whole Syrian fight can be traced - partially - to the French putting the Alawites in charge.

 

[MaddAdam]

Do you think we will see borders being redrawn in the Middle East?

They have been redrawn. Greater Israel now exists. Kurdistan now exists. Iraq is lines on a map and so is Syria.

 

[FPPF]

They have been redrawn. Greater Israel now exists. Kurdistan now exists. Iraq is lines on a map and so is Syria.

Where does greater Israel exist?
Greater Israel is far bigger then Israel and a few occupied Palestinian territories.

Kurdistan sort of exists, in northern Iraq. They've definitely gained a lot of attention and support, as well as sympathy as they've been fighting toe to toe with the head chopping lunatics over there, and they were the ones who went in on the ground and rescued that minority group who were forced to flee up a mountain.
Some believe the bombings and attacks in Turkey are part of a wider plan to draw Turkey in to the conflicts there, possibly stir up a civil war in Turkey, which will be part of the eventual redrawing of the middle east map.
If a full blown civil war erupts in Turkey it will be far worse then the last 40 years of fighting with the PKK. This time, it wont be confined largely to the south east of Turkey, but will be in major Turkish cities.
The Kurdish issue is something the Turks will have to deal with and settle it within their own circles soon, because it's already being exploited and used by the West and it's allies(even Israel is arming and training Kurds..), and if civil war breaks out, it will be taken advantage of to it's fullest.

But the Kurds have been promised a Kurdistan before, and been sold out.
I don't think they've ever been this organized or well armed before though. So maybe this time will be different for them.

They are one of the biggest, if not the biggest ethnic group with out their own country.

 

[medusala]

. Now sending rebels in to take on Assad in Syria and providing them with air cover from Turkey and keeping the Kurds just strong enough to stand up, but not strong enough to actually win.

Another in a long list of Obama foreign policy stuff ups. Re Kurds, Turkey allegedly about to enter the fray as well re ISIS

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/31/w...te-opponents-reported-kidnapped-in-syria.html

ANTAKYA, Turkey — A Pentagon program to train moderate Syrian insurgents to fight the Islamic State has been vexed by problems of recruitment, screening, dismissals and desertions that have left only a tiny band of fighters ready to do battle.

Those fighters — 54 in all — suffered perhaps their most embarrassing setback yet on Thursday. One of their leaders, a Syrian Army defector who recruited them, was abducted in Syria near the Turkish border, along with his deputy who commands the trainees. They were seized not by the Islamic State but by its rival the Nusra Front, an affiliate of Al Qaeda that is another Islamist extremist byproduct of the four-year-old Syrian civil war.

Obama (who has said publicly he doesn't forget what happened in Kenya in the 50s) using masterly British empire tactics that Bush, who used 1940 German tactics, could have learned from.

His ME policy has been a trainwreck. Total confusion over Libya, Egypt, Iran and Syria. Can't even keep Israel onside / in check.

 

[MaddAdam]

His ME policy has been a trainwreck. Total confusion over Libya, Egypt, Iran and Syria. Can't even keep Israel onside / in check.

I think his policy is indeed to create confusion for the reasons I explained above.

 

[medusala]

I think his policy is indeed to create confusion

He has certainly succeeded. Politics equivalent to Gerard Neesham.

In fairness it cant have been easy for him with Rodham running foreign policy on the basis of who would "donate" to her foundation.

Re Scotland: can definitely see another vote sooner rather than later but cant see any reason why the snp will do better than last time. Have you come across Kezia Dugdale?

 

[MaddAdam]

He has certainly succeeded. Politics equivalent to Gerard Neesham.

In fairness it cant have been easy for him with Rodham running foreign policy on the basis of who would "donate" to her foundation.

Re Scotland: can definitely see another vote sooner rather than later but cant see any reason why the snp will do better than last time. Have you come across Kezia Dugdale?

I knew Kez back when she was just a researcher and actually once reduced her to tears in a pub - bit of a prickish act really - by asking how she could so ardently support a party that had the blood of a million Iraqis on its hands.

But she's smart, she's tough (now) and she can play the game. She's not as good as Sturgeon but she's Labour's best hope.

SNP can win - the Tories down south their best ally. The EU vote will be what decides. If England votes out and Scotland in, that's basically indyref2 right there.

 

[medusala]

SNP can win - the Tories down south their best ally. The EU vote will be what decides. If England votes out and Scotland in, that's basically indyref2 right there.

Cameron and his big business stooges will throw a huge amount of money to stop the UK leaving. Cameron is a gutless wonder, hasn't even bothered to put up a fight re open immigration.

Problem for SNP is their dominance in Scotland. Generally gets followed by hubris. She is overplaying her hand and acting like she is the opposition at Westminster. Every Scot you meet down her despises her with a passion, oddly you never really heard that re Salmond.

I wonder if Corbyn gets the Labour leadership, whilst destroying their chances in England, it may actually do them a world of good in Scotland.

 

[MaddAdam]

Cameron and his big business stooges will throw a huge amount of money to stop the UK leaving. Cameron is a gutless wonder, hasn't even bothered to put up a fight re open immigration.

Problem for SNP is their dominance in Scotland. Generally gets followed by hubris. She is overplaying her hand and acting like she is the opposition at Westminster. Every Scot you meet down her despises her with a passion, oddly you never really heard that re Salmond.

I wonder if Corbyn gets the Labour leadership, whilst destroying their chances in England, it may actually do them a world of good in Scotland.

Every Scot up there loves her, which is why they won 56 seats and are sitting at 60 per cent approval for Holyrood.

 

[MaddAdam]

Well, 60 per cent of Scots love her.

 

[medusala]

Every Scot up there loves her, which is why they won 56 seats and are sitting at 60 per cent approval for Holyrood.

Yes and they conveniently disenfranchised all the Scots not living in Scotland. How they got away with that is beyond me.

 

[MaddAdam]

Yes and they conveniently disenfranchised all the Scots not living in Scotland. How they got away with that is beyond me.

The most bullshit argument ever.

 

[medusala]

The most bullshit argument ever.

Denied how many people the vote? Over a million? What % of total was that? Blatant attempt to rig the result as was allowing 16 year olds to vote and the attempted rigging of the wording. Grubby as all hell.

And to think people claim Republicans try to stop black people voting by demanding (as most countries do) some sort of id being shown at the polling booth.

 

[MaddAdam]

Denied how many people the vote? Over a million? What % of total was that? Blatant attempt to rig the result as was allowing 16 year olds to vote and the attempted rigging of the wording. Grubby as all hell.

And to think people claim Republicans try to stop black people voting by demanding (as most countries do) some sort of id being shown at the polling booth.

Where do they stop?

"Scots" living in Australia and America too?

How do you define Scottish anyway? Anyone called Hamish or Kirsty gets a vote?

Also, the academic research has shown the vote was swung by English people living in Scotland voting no.

So far from your tenuous bullshit argument about "Scots being denied the vote", actual Scots voted YES and foreign interlopers denied them natural justice.

 

[medusala]

Where do they stop?

"Scots" living in Australia and America too?

So far from your tenuous bullshit argument about "Scots being denied the vote", actual Scots voted YES and foreign interlopers denied them natural justice.

Australians living in the UK can vote in Australian elections, do you want to ban them? If not why not?

Are their not less English in Scotland than Scots in England? If your claim had any merit, the yes vote would have dominated away from Edinburgh and the borders - it didn't. IIRC Glascow and Dundee and that was it.

As below, twice as many Scots in England as vice versa

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29052665

There are almost half a million English people in Scotland

 

[MaddAdam]

Australians living in the UK can vote in Australian elections, do you want to ban them? If not why not?

Yes I do. When I lived in the UK and I knew I wasn't going to be living in Australia for the period of the election I didn't vote, it is fundamentally anti-democratic.

 

[medusala]

Yes I do. When I lived in the UK and I knew I wasn't going to be living in Australia for the period of the election I didn't vote, it is fundamentally anti-democratic.

Neither did I but that's because I think compulsory voting is a disgrace.

Anyhow lets hope Corbyn gets the leadership, which will heat things up, probably entrench the Tories and encourage Osborne to grow a spine and thus enrage the Scots in to independence.

 

[Allan Shorty]

Where does greater Israel exist?
Greater Israel is far bigger then Israel and a few occupied Palestinian territories.

Kurdistan sort of exists, in northern Iraq. They've definitely gained a lot of attention and support, as well as sympathy as they've been fighting toe to toe with the head chopping lunatics over there, and they were the ones who went in on the ground and rescued that minority group who were forced to flee up a mountain.
Some believe the bombings and attacks in Turkey are part of a wider plan to draw Turkey in to the conflicts there, possibly stir up a civil war in Turkey, which will be part of the eventual redrawing of the middle east map.
If a full blown civil war erupts in Turkey it will be far worse then the last 40 years of fighting with the PKK. This time, it wont be confined largely to the south east of Turkey, but will be in major Turkish cities.
The Kurdish issue is something the Turks will have to deal with and settle it within their own circles soon, because it's already being exploited and used by the West and it's allies(even Israel is arming and training Kurds..), and if civil war breaks out, it will be taken advantage of to it's fullest.

But the Kurds have been promised a Kurdistan before, and been sold out.
I don't think they've ever been this organized or well armed before though. So maybe this time will be different for them.

They are one of the biggest, if not the biggest ethnic group with out their own country.

Punjabis are 130 million perhaps. Kurds maybe 30 million. The Oromo people protest in Melbourne occasionally for recognition. They are 25 million strong.

 

[blackcat]

Hence the nicey nicey lately with the Iranians - keep your friends close and your enemies even closer.

ahmedinejad has created a massive liability for Rouhani and Tehran.

*** caveat is, I dont know how much control he had over every policy lever