Opinion The Official Brad Scott Thread - Back, at the club (Relax - bumped thread)

[B4Bear]

I think the game plan need to stay but think we do need to freshen the 22 up a bit (Daw, Dumont, Atley back, Wood wing) and clean up our execution.

I do not care what the gameplan is per se. I am mostly talking about the execution.

It is like most of the team has forgotten the basics.

See Ball

Get Ball

Kick it between the big sticks

Rinse

Repeat

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

But that's the thing. I don't think we condone poor performances as such. I think the coaches rate highly other aspects of performance along with what players do when they have the ball in hand and this is why we as supporters are left scratching our heads because we aren't involved in the background and don't know what these measures are nor how they are applied. Clearly there are only a limited number of players who are trusted to play a role at the minute to those standards, hence the selection process we all know and love so well.

Overall the team output is shiteful, but you heard Scott talking about statistics and how even they were in game. It is clear that we as a team are happy to concede the uncontested ball as long as we make the most of our opportunities but we have been ******* horrid in that regard lately, spurning our opportunities to create opportunities for our opponents. Scott would rather we stick to the way we play with the players we trust in those roles but clean up our usage and running. I tend to agree with that approach to an extent because it is harder to change a game plan, the personnel used and work on execution and application than to just work on execution and application. I think the game plan need to stay but think we do need to freshen the 22 up a bit (Daw, Dumont, Atley back, Wood wing) and clean up our execution.

That is why teams who can hit targets destroy us.

We don't do enough to win it back.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Well, the ease of which opposition teams can move the ball from end to end shows one of three things.

The structure is s**t.

The players don't understand it.

The players aren't working hard enough.

What it shows mostly is that we kill ourselves with turnovers. Almost every ******* week.

For the most part our defence again is generally excellent at limiting the number of scoring shots from inside 50's and that is partly down to the way in which teams bring the ball inside 50 thanks to our pressure, but when we capitulate and put in a shocker, as we did on the weekend, we look like utter tripe. You an argue that this should not happen, and I agree it shouldn't, but what that shows is that as a group we are Richmond heavy strength when it comes to sticking to our game plan. We are a 5-8 team playing like a 10-14 team at the minute.

 

[GarnerSmash]

I do not care what the gameplan is per se. I am mostly talking about the execution.

It is like most of the team has forgotten the basics.

See Ball

Get Ball

Kick it between the big sticks

Rinse

Repeat

Game plan and execution go hand in hand mate. The Hawks, the Swans and Freo don't play see ball, get ball, score goals footy, although because they are so well drilled it seems like they do.

Frustrating as *.

 

[Wild Bill]

Maybe he should try something novel; like maybe, pick the best 22 from the senior/VFL lists. Then fit them into the starting 22.

Because until there are consequences for s**t performances on the field, we will continue to be mediocre.

Goldy
Zeibull
Boomer (play him forward FFS)
Higgins
Firitto
Swallow (injury not withstanding)
Brown (injury not withstanding)

They are the only Senior players I would say are a lock if the team was picked purely on performance.

All the rest should be on notice.

Will it happen? Not on your life; What you ignore you condone, and we condone mediocrity.

Thomas, Thompson, Cunners, Hanson are locks as well. Not sure how you see any of these two not being the team - if fit.

 

[GarnerSmash]

That is why teams who can hit targets destroy us.

We don't do enough to win it back.

In a way I agree. Primarily the type of turnover we hit is so bad that it leaves us scrambling to get a hand on the opponent let alone lay a tackle. Its ****ed up how s**t we can be some times. I do agree that a lack of genuine toe through the middle and on the flanks hurts us defensively when the ball hits the deck. Once a team gets a step on one of our guys he generally seems to be able to draw another North player and give off to a free man. So s**t.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

We rely on other teams ******* up.

We should be forcing them to * up.

 

[GarnerSmash]

We rely on other teams ******* up.

We should be forcing them to **** up.

That's why we allow the pressure to come on to the backline, because we aren't necessarily good at applying pressure in the middle of the ground or up forward. We are trying to play a rebounding game but have been so slow in implementing a rebound that we ultimately have been putting ourselves under pressure and even when we do get out we cough it up. That's why Boomer was down back, but IMO Ately should have been down there too.

 

[tazaa]

I looked at our fixture.
Am I naive to think that we are a genuine chance in every single game for the rest of the year? I dont think well start over $3 in any game remaining.
No Hawthorn. Sydney at home. Freo at home. No Port. Geelong at home. Essendon at home. Richmond at home. West Coast at home. No Adelaide.
I actually want to choke our players if they continue to * this up.
So ropeable right now.

 

[Saintly31]

I actually want to choke our players if they continue to **** this up.
So ropeable right now.

To be fair, I think our players do enough choking of their own....

 

[B4Bear]

So the question is: Who is our Will Minson.

Big name gets dropped by a rookie coach.

Could anyone imagine Luke Beveridge putting up with what we are dishing out?

 

[Only Forwards]

I looked at our fixture.
Am I naive to think that we are a genuine chance in every single game for the rest of the year? I dont think well start over $3 in any game remaining.
No Hawthorn. Sydney at home. Freo at home. No Port. Geelong at home. Essendon at home. Richmond at home. West Coast at home. No Adelaide.
I actually want to choke our players if they continue to **** this up.
So ropeable right now.

We are a chance.

There is opportunity.

We have to take it.

We struggle to do that.

 

[tazaa]

To be fair, I think our players do enough choking of their own....

The more frustration the supporter base has thrown on them, the more angst towards the current regime and as to why we are here.

 

[Saintly31]

The more frustration the supporter base has thrown on them, the more angst towards the current regime and as to why we are here.

Of course mate, I was only being facetious.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Jacobs is the worst.

He's not the only one.

This is a fans view. It is not reality. How often do you see this from other teams? It is usually an indication that the coach and players have poor communication. You are also assuming that the guys in the VFL are doing everything asked of them - which may not be the case, so what message does promotion send.

Don't pull the condescending "this is a fans view, not reality" s**t. If players aren't doing what's asked of them in the VFL then they shouldn't be promoted, and again our development staff need to work out why. But this idea that "no one is dominating the VFL so no one should be dropped from the seniors" just creates the sort of discontent that the same guys are allowed to underperform in the ones week after week.

Gibson is clearly a guy who follows team rules but is the most common player people call to be demoted around here. Brown and Turner worked hard, played their role and got games in the finals.

I'm very aware of what Sam brings to the team and am also aware that until we find someone else with his tank and work ethic, he is playing ones. He's also a pretty good example of where we're lacking compared to the top tier sides.

...and Scott was roundly criticised for giving Warren a game because Warren did not perform.

Was he?

 

[tazaa]

We are a chance.

There is opportunity.

We have to take it.

We struggle to do that.

Like Scooby said, could have been mistaken for thinking it was 2012.

 

[Tas]

The expansion teams have cost us at draft table over the last 4-5 years. We now need to pull out a miracle trade or two to try and compensate for it, which I can't see happening. After we recruited Ziebell and Cunnington with top 10 picks, we would have thought most of the pieces of the midfield are in place, given Swallow was also at his prime. However, we still needed to add the top level polish to that, but that's where top 10 picks have dried up.

If we were able to add one top liner per year (say pick 10) for the past 5 drafts, at least 3 of them would likely be in our best 22 right now, if not all 5. Instead, we drafted McKenzie at 18 in 2011, as the likes of Taylor Adams and Devon Smith went to GWS. Garner at pick 15 in 2012, Luke McDonald in 2013 at pick 8 (hope Luke doesn't let us down at the end).

We had tried to patch it up with Dal and Higgins, but we are missing 2-3 talented mids from the last 5 drafts IMO.

Drafts that were compromised were 2009-2012, although 2012 not by too much.

The problem was we had no real relationship with GC or GWS, clubs that dealt with them were able to get in on the mini-draft or exchange player and picks for upgrades. We over-rated our talent from inside the club and our development has been pretty poor by comparison to the better clubs, our players take a lot longer to come on and very few penetrate the solid category to go into the elite category.

We have also not had much luck on the injury front, most of our better young players have been sidelined for the better part of two years due to long-term injuries.

Pre-compromised Draft:

2005: Riggio #28 (gone) Swallow #43 (171 games) Green #45 (gone) Hutchison #69 (gone) Thurley (gone) pre-season [Lower Whyman rookies)

2006: Hansen #3 (120 games) Urquhart #21 (gone) Goldstein #37 (133 games) Thomas #53 (161 games) Warren #69 (gone) Edwards #82 (gone) Ross pre-season (gone) [Adams Hughes Campbell Hutchison rookies]

2007: Tarrant #15 (45 games) Greenwood #32 (gone) Thompson #37 (144 games) Smith #62 (gone) B.Grima #72 (gone) [N.Grima Garlett Obst Wundke Wilsen rookies]

2008: Ziebell #9 (108 games) Wright #27 (92 games) Anthony #43 (gone) O'Keefe #59 (gone) Benjamin #71 (gone) [White L.Delaney Speight Obst Meredith rookies]

Compromised Drafts:

2009: Cunnington #5 (107 games) Bastinac #21 (111 games) Black #25 (48 games) MacMillan #37 (68 games) Kennedy #41 (gone) Norris #53 (gone) [Daw Scott rookies]

2010: Atley #17 (94 games) Harper #27 40 games C.Delaney #69 (gone) Mabon #71 (hone) [Pedersen Mullett rookies]

2011: McKenzie #18 (22 games) Curran #40 (gone) [Warren Mangan Lynch Gibson Urquhart rookies]

2012: Garner #15 (2 games) Jacobs #47 (28 games) Wood #41 (7 games) Wilkins #47 (gone) Currie #56 (0 games) Hine #61 (gone) [McGenniss Speight Richardson rookie]

Post-Compromised Drafts:

2013: McDonald #8 (29 games) Dumont #30 (2 games) Brown #47 (17 games) [Tippett, Turner rookies]

2014: Durdin #16 Nielson #25 Vickers-Willis #36 [Preuss Fordham Warren Nahas rookies]

10 year draft snapshot gives a pretty good indication where a club is at and how it performs, even during the leanest period in 2010 and 2011 of the compromised drafts, our club was pretty happy with 2011 in particular and it had been noted that we had done well in 2011. Mullett polled well in the Rising star and in 2012/2013 Atley and Harper were playing a game plan which suited speed and flair, they weren't thrown into the middle where neither has been comfortable.

Oue football department was reviewed in late 2006 after the spectacular failure that was trading for players like Hay, it also saw us overhaul the recruitment department, adding the current gentleman that run it today and the eventual demise of the previous staff. As Laidley talked during his resignation in 2009, we didn't have the resources to develop players well but had started to see more resources late in his reign and he felt that things would improve in the future, and we have seen us gradually improve spending on the football department, to hitting the $20m mark last year, with half of that being player payments.

What is noticeable is apart from rookies and late picks, we have had a pretty strong player retention, the vast majority of exiting players have been players recruited previous to this period and low probability recruits. Another highlight is that players demoted to the rookie list is just not providing us any return, the club should de-list anyone they contemplate demoting to the rookie list because it is just delaying the inevitable and denying us the opportunity to find another quality player via the rookie system.

The elephant in the room is the lack of midfield class recruited, the compromised drafts didn't provide a lot of opportunity, nor did our mid-table finishes.

I think we have focused too much on players with similar attributes, similar strengths and weaknesses. I've mentioned almost every time I have posted about players, particularly our midfielders, that it isn't necessarily the player that is the problem, it is their combination in our midfield.

You just can't afford to go through the motions, we lack class midfielders, we aren't going to find them where we are finishing, we have to improve our draft position to target a midfielder we want or we have to be aggressive in trying to lure good prospects from other clubs, we need to find $1m plus in our salary cap to throw at a player with real class, we have given Dal Santo and Higgins good cash to come over, but we should have been looking at one $1.2m pure class young midfielder who is going to be a 10 year player rather than two $600k players who are relatively short-term.

I just don't think we have done enough to address the major weakness. When you look at those players on the list we should only have Goldy and Swallow who are on really good coin, most of the others aren't producing to a level which should demand major currency, we are overpaying on present output. We have a lot of players who are fringe, I think we need to look at where the money is going.

Archer has come onto the board and his role is to oversee the football department, he needs to be critical of every aspect of player development, across the board our players are poor in the core strength, our development stagnates after 1-2 years, we are not getting good quality kids up to a standard in 4-5 years, Hawthorn turns lesser footballer into better consistent players in 1-2 years. We are just too far off the mark in too many different areas at present.

 

[Event Horizon]

All the effort has to be put into luring one of the GWS talented mids over to us. Won't be easy to get the trade over the line, but once a player commits to us, we are half way there.

 

[hilly]

Not sure why a player has to dominate the VFL for weeks on end to be considered a replacement for players who demonstrate below-par performances in the AFL.

 

[kelman]

If my Aunty had balls though...

The Geelong comparison is false because five of our best 6/7 players are coming to the end and our younger midfield do not have the talent to adequately replace them. Even if we have a Geelong 'eureka moment' that's all it will be because Harvey, Wells, Dal Santo, Petrie and Thompson will not be here for a threepeat or a back to back run. We don't have the class to replace them, and don't have the depth right now to support Cunners, Swallow and JZ when they take the mantle.

It may be up to the players and maybe we do have an awesome coach, but that means that we just aren't good enough as a unit, so when things start going against us we crumble.

It looks that way right now, but it didn't going into last year's prelim. Our list is in good shape. Cunnington and Ziebell definitely have the talent, the problem is they do not produce it every week like real top liners do. When your midfield is inconsistent, so is your team.

 

[BowWow1978]

That is the list over two seasons? Ask any supporter of another team and they will have similar selection gripes. We don't have all the info.

No, that wasn't a comprehensive list, it was just a few that came to mind after 0.02 seconds thought...

 

[kelman]

He's not the only one.

There can only be one who is the worst and I think he is it.

Don't pull the condescending "this is a fans view, not reality" s**t. If players aren't doing what's asked of them in the VFL then they shouldn't be promoted, and again our development staff need to work out why. But this idea that "no one is dominating the VFL so no one should be dropped from the seniors" just creates the sort of discontent that the same guys are allowed to underperform in the ones week after week.

Everyone seems to want a scapegoat or two after a big loss, i get that. however the amount of outrage over a guy like Ayden Kennedy illustrates the point. the forum watchers thought it was such an injustice and Scott is playing favourites. There was panic over him walking. We de-list him and no-one even rookies him, suggesting his talent and form were not great. Fan perception vs. reality.

Who is it you want out to send a message and for who?

Was he?

Definitely. He got about one touch, we lost and hindsight kicked in about giving games to guys who had no future with the club.

 

[Woodson]

Our list is in good shape. Cunnington and Ziebell definitely have the talent, the problem is they do not produce it every week like real top liners do. When your midfield is inconsistent, so is your team.

I tend to agree with you Kelman but it's more to do with the system regards to clearances… where are the blockers for such players to get that direct kick to advantage of our fwds? It annoys me continually that Goldstein is busting his rump to win the tap out ALL FOR F****** NOTHING!! What's the deal with breaking leads from the fwds when we see North get that CLEAN centre clearance?? Aside Jack bombing it over everyone's heads and going down the guts to SEAL the game vs the red and black team last week… it's just a lottery… for all the fwd 50 entries… some poor decisions have come back to haunt North.

No AFL game is a error free game… that ELIMINATES talk of such 'class'.. the better players WILL and CONTINUE to make errors… under the pump. I just want goers SWITCHED ON!! Willing to tackle, run to space and create options. When Wells is described as a Rolls Royce… it's quite RICH for my liking..*smh.. *facepalm* I'd rather have every player regardless how 'skilful that should be' to just DO THE TEAM THING.. body and mind in the game. Look at Freo on the weekend.. Fyffe plays like a blue-collar and so do many of their team. Bottom line : No passengers because they've a system. What's Brad Scott's excuse?

 

[Thewlis Dish]

There can only be one who is the worst and I think he is it.

Does it not trouble you that far more senior players make the same mistakes? Deciding Jacobs is worse and deserves the heat just allows much more experienced players a chop out.

Everyone seems to want a scapegoat or two after a big loss, i get that. however the amount of outrage over a guy like Ayden Kennedy illustrates the point. the forum watchers thought it was such an injustice and Scott is playing favourites. There was panic over him walking. We de-list him and no-one even rookies him, suggesting his talent and form were not great. Fan perception vs. reality.

People want a scapegoat after three 10 goal losses in nine weeks, not after one game. And scapegoat is just an exaggerated way of saying some of the guys who get picked every week should feel the heat a little bit more.

The view that "everyone wanted Ayden Kennedy in, thus arguing guys in the VFL should be promoted is not valid" is just a s**t one. I'm sure you can debate a bit better than with crap like that.

Who is it you want out to send a message and for who?

For starters I don't understand how Atley has kept his spot for two months. Given we're pretty much playing him as a sub anyway, I don't see why DUmont couldn't come in and try to help address our stoppage issues. Daw is doing everything asked of him but I think Waite and Brown has been quite good, and Drew will have a spot under Scott until the day he retires.

Definitely. He got about one touch, we lost and hindsight kicked in about giving games to guys who had no future with the club.

I'm confused about what you're inferring - are you saying that because Warren didn't look up to it we shouldn't promote VFL players? Or are you confusing me saying I'd be for someone like Warren to get a promotion based on team things (as opposed to needing 40 a week) with me suggesting I specifically want Max Warren in the seniors?

 

[Tas]

All the effort has to be put into luring one of the GWS talented mids over to us. Won't be easy to get the trade over the line, but once a player commits to us, we are half way there.

All we have to do is have the player nominate us and for us to put something reasonable on the table, enough so they would rather that than to send him into the draft for nothing. They are never going to get market value on trades, I think the clubs would be pretty keen as a whole to screw them over and level the playing field.

We just need to put a cheque on the table with enough zeros on the end of it that GWS can't match it or if they do then it means you just go down the list of mids at the club and keep offering massive cheques, they will either have players leave or inflation will kill them in the long-run. Similar to what they did to a lot of clubs who had to overpay their players to keep them.