The old suburban VFL/AFL grounds

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In 2002 the ground was contracted to host 9 matches. In 2002 Carlton only played 4 home matches at Optus and flirted with Etihad by playing 4 home games there. This meant that the Bulldogs, Melbourne and North played home games at Optus to make up the difference and unfortunately the crowds were atrocious and some drew less than 10k from memory. People just aren't willing to venture away from the CBD to watch footy matches anymore.

Yeah because everyone comes from the CBD or wants to go there :rolleyes: Have you seen the traffic and rail after an Etihad game?
Optus needed work to make it appealing.
As it was, hard to go there by car OR public transport.
Both of those could have been addressed. Eastlink opens up the Eastern Freeway on one side, whilst the road networks out the other side are much better than they were. But some sort of parking facilities are required. Also improved pedestrian access from the Stadium to Parkville station.
 

Teagueeee15

Premiership Player
Sep 15, 2004
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Yeah because everyone comes from the CBD or wants to go there :rolleyes: Have you seen the traffic and rail after an Etihad game?
Optus needed work to make it appealing.
As it was, hard to go there by car OR public transport.
Both of those could have been addressed. Eastlink opens up the Eastern Freeway on one side, whilst the road networks out the other side are much better than they were. But some sort of parking facilities are required. Also improved pedestrian access from the Stadium to Parkville station.

I agree that road infrastructure has improved since 2005 and will continue to improve with the East West Link. Not sure why you have a :rolleyes: or what your first sentence has to do with my post. I'm not sure where the fallacy of Princes Park being difficult to get to via public transport comes from. Footy supporters in Melbourne are just fickle and don't like anything that isn't the MCG. Heck if people don't go to Etihad because it's s**t, they won't travel 3-4km outside the CBD to go to Carlton regardless of the stadiums quality.

Public Transport options are adequate and plentiful:

- Number 19 tram which goes from Flinders Street Station and stops right outside the front gate. This is the view from the actual stop.

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- Number 1 and number 8 trams that stop in Lygon Street, 400 metres from the Legends Stand.

- Upfield Line Train to Royal Park station, a 10 minute walk to the ground.

- A bus to the University of Melbourne bus terminus. A 10-15 minute walk.

Parking facilities on match days for a suburban ground were excellent, with a permit available that allowed the club to use the adjacent ovals and parkland as a car park. On a per capita basis, the car park at Princes Park held more cars than the MCG car park does and the drainage on the ovals was good enough that heavy rain didn't force it to be completely closed (unlike the MCG). Here are some examples of where people could park on the adjacent ovals (there's plenty more) and it seems ample enough for a stadium of its size.

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Haha the :rolleyes: was for those of us who avoid the CBD like the plague if we can :D. I'd kill to have Waverly park still there.

Yeah the Station is close. Its a pain to use, but a proper walkway bridging the road and providing well lit access to the Station would surely be possible.

As a suburban commuter I like going to Etihad , parking in the Casino is directly off Citylink. Also easy to park in Kings Street ( great for Sunday's - free ) or near Costco.
The G really has no alternative to the mudpuddle, I mean carpark. OK to get into , seems to take hours to get out.

Public transport from my place is what I imagine it was like for Bourke and Wills. They really need some decent park and ride's along the way.
 

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Silent Alarm

sack Lyon
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The G really has no alternative to the mudpuddle, I mean carpark. OK to get into , seems to take hours to get out.
Whenever I leave a game from the 'G I always notice this. Signs say you have to wait 20 minutes or something to let people leave by foot. Then there's the carnage of the fact people just want to leave, they've probably seen a miserable game, and they're raring to head home and so I'm sure sitting at waiting for people to let you leave is pretty hard. Melburnians heap whatever they can onto Etihad – anything. But they never place any negativity on the MCG. That parking is total bedlam. I couldn't think of anything shitter than 5pm, in a car, your team's been done and it's freezing and home's still 40 minutes away. Just take the train and hope you see a good looking girl in a footy scarf to give you some hope...
 
Whenever I leave a game from the 'G I always notice this. Signs say you have to wait 20 minutes or something to let people leave by foot. Then there's the carnage of the fact people just want to leave, they've probably seen a miserable game, and they're raring to head home and so I'm sure sitting at waiting for people to let you leave is pretty hard. Melburnians heap whatever they can onto Etihad – anything. But they never place any negativity on the MCG. That parking is total bedlam. I couldn't think of anything shitter than 5pm, in a car, your team's been done and it's freezing and home's still 40 minutes away. Just take the train and hope you see a good looking girl in a footy scarf to give you some hope...

It really needs a decent highrise carpark feeding directly onto punt road. The rest of it could then be turned into some really nice parkland instead of the mud puddle.
 
Sep 21, 2002
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Whenever I leave a game from the 'G I always notice this. Signs say you have to wait 20 minutes or something to let people leave by foot. Then there's the carnage of the fact people just want to leave, they've probably seen a miserable game, and they're raring to head home and so I'm sure sitting at waiting for people to let you leave is pretty hard. Melburnians heap whatever they can onto Etihad – anything. But they never place any negativity on the MCG. That parking is total bedlam. I couldn't think of anything shitter than 5pm, in a car, your team's been done and it's freezing and home's still 40 minutes away. Just take the train and hope you see a good looking girl in a footy scarf to give you some hope...

You see .... this is why people in Adelaide leave the game 10 minutes early if the result is beyond doubt. They avoid all this, and people put s**t on them for being smart.
 

muppet007

Debutant
Jun 8, 2014
101
66
AFL Club
Essendon
Why do the away football clubs that play at Windy Hill use the Cricket rooms as the change rooms and not the away rooms underneath the Cricket rooms? Are they not suitable for use? I've always wondered why they don't.
 

mianfei

Club Legend
May 10, 2009
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When did gate pooling commence?
In its fullest form it commenced in the 1960s, but it had been used widely from 1945, when the league feared a return to free competition would produce the extinction of the poorer clubs.

It’s revealing to discover from fan “biographies” that, even in the 1960s, very few of the people in the eastern suburbs supported Hawthorn – they all went for the “big five” of Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Geelong or Richmond, who would without country zoning have probably been the only surviving clubs in the league by the end of the 1970s. No doubt the same was even more true of South Melbourne in the southeastern bayside suburbs, of North Melbourne in the Broadmeadows corridor, or of Fitzroy in the Epping/Preston corridor

The trouble is that the league knew attendances – and even more TV viewership – were too dependent on those clubs winning often for them to allow a significant proportion of the clubs to fold.

Although the modern system of rationalised grounds is ludicruously unfair, I have recognised, “Rusty_Brookes” that it is economically very efficient because it maximises TV revenue, and a truly fair system would necessarily take many people away with fewer wins for the popular clubs (genuine home advantages for weaker clubs and/or fewer or no weak opponents).
What’s the plan for Windy Hill now? Will they demolish it? I recall watching the Essendon league grand finals there a few years back. will they still be held there or are they moving on as well?
I’ve always imagined that Windy Hill must have been one of the worst of the suburban grounds (if not the worst) and that without the revenue-sharing pathways of the postwar period Essendon would, like St. Kilda, have sought a new ground and would have had the wealth to potentially do so in the 1960s.
 

Silent Alarm

sack Lyon
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A bit of a celebratory post for the grounds less generously refurbished; the aforementioned Windy Hill and Arden Street.

WindyHillAerial.JPG

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http://www.riverinafl.com/Windy Hill.html

I think it's a real shame the way Arden Street went. I know the old grandstand was beyond repair, but I feel like the reconstruction was done a little cheaply. I thought they should've somehow refit the old stand the way they have down at Lake Oval, leaving that nice old roof and reusing the bricks.

arden-st-lawton.jpg

http://scoreboardpressure.com/2011/06/22/north-melbourne-victoria/
This old scoreboard is pretty nice if unremarkable. The little thing I like at grounds are the sponsor boards. Even as a kid, my club used to have a few old signs from ill-fitting sponsors – like Burger Rings – and I used to like the way they faded and peeled. It gave the fence some character. I wish the Kangaroos keep this fence you can see around the outside and kept, especially the old Adidas, signs.

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standing.jpg

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The old weights room seems to have a bar in it too – this was used into the early 2000s.

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http://theholybootsfootballemporium.com/2012/04/25/home-away-4-arden-street-oval/

This old entrance is a beaut too, love the old cylindrical columns. Also, the signs here are in pale and royal blue – the colourway the Kangas used a fair bit in the 70s or 80s, I can't remember, but the classic old logo was interchanged with these colours for a while. I really wish they kept this somehow, it looks like something from a soccer ground in England more than a footy ground in Australia.
 

Teagueeee15

Premiership Player
Sep 15, 2004
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Carlton
I have some pictures at Windy Hill taken from just about the same spot as those. There's been some drastic changes in some of them, but others are almost identical.

I would have loved to explore that Showers Stand if it were still there.

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It's really cool how some of the old signs remain. I really want to souvenir them because you get a great sense of the venues history as spectators back in the day were looking at the very same signs.

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Teagueeee15

Premiership Player
Sep 15, 2004
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Arden Street is a different kettle of fish. You just don't feel any history about the place as it's just about all gone and just looks like your average suburban Melbourne Park. I will never understand why they demolished the Henderson Pavilion and haven't replaced it with anything other than a patch of grass as the community could have got some use out of it as a function centre. It also smells badly like manure each time I visit.

All that's left is this sign and part of the players races

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The rest is pretty bland to look at but it's always full of people at least.

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I took this video of me walking a lap around there last year.

 

Silent Alarm

sack Lyon
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I will never understand why they demolished the Henderson Pavilion and haven't replaced it with anything other than a patch of grass as the community could have got some use out of it as a function centre. It also smells badly like manure each time I visit.
I've read that the grandstand was basically rotting, the metal and steel was a health hazard and the mostly wooden beams and structure was just about ready to fall over from termites.

But what was the Henderson Pavilion? Is it that little shed in the pocket that, so I've read, used to be the old club shop for a while? The one here with the Tabarat ads on it (as someone who never grew up in Victoria nor its seemingly 80s/90s heyday, what was Tabarat?). Seemingly used to host Hotham's finest young punks on a Saturday evening too... hard to imagine anyone clubbing westward of Fitzroy or north of the Markets, but I guess if you follow King Street long enough you'll get to North Melbs...
IMGP0327.jpg

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http://www.panoramio.com/photo/41913325
"Site of the former North Melbourne Grandstand (2010). The Social Club in the Harold R Henderson Pavilion, that was built here in the 170s, was a popular nightclub"

I have some pictures at Windy Hill taken from just about the same spot as those. There's been some drastic changes in some of them, but others are almost identical.

I would have loved to explore that Showers Stand if it were still there.

It's really cool how some of the old signs remain. I really want to souvenir them because you get a great sense of the venues history as spectators back in the day were looking at the very same signs.
They should've kept the roof of that old stand in the pocket and used that as the roof for the gym, because what's there now is just ugly. The rest of the stands are brutalist as well, and always look dreary, dank, and freezing but at least they were home to some AFL football and have history.

I always like keeping things as you've found them. There are other people interested in the same realms as you, who'd appreciate the little signals of previous life you do. But the clubs are seemingly very choosy about what to preserve. Even at Vic Park, which should be modelled in the rest of the country for how to redevelop historically meaningful ovals, has a few issues: the scoreboard was demolished because it was cheaper than redoing it; the fences torn down and signage removed or painted over, and some turnstiles totally torn down as well as an entire outer. So I do wish I could go down one night and take some little trinkets because you don't know when they'll be taken down by someone else.

Personally, I reckon someone will log onto BF one day and post in here about the old Glenferrie Social Club being torn down on the week prior. It's been rumoured by the council to be their next big project. Hopefully the Hawks salvage some stuff from inside, I reckon they will, but there'd be some things consigned to skip bins that I'd love to grab. I hope they turn that area into a nice, open park for the Swinburne uni and residents, too.
 

Teagueeee15

Premiership Player
Sep 15, 2004
3,861
2,698
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Carlton
I've read that the grandstand was basically rotting, the metal and steel was a health hazard and the mostly wooden beams and structure was just about ready to fall over from termites.

But what was the Henderson Pavilion? Is it that little shed in the pocket that, so I've read, used to be the old club shop for a while? The one here with the Tabarat ads on it (as someone who never grew up in Victoria nor its seemingly 80s/90s heyday, what was Tabarat?). Seemingly used to host Hotham's finest young punks on a Saturday evening too... hard to imagine anyone clubbing westward of Fitzroy or north of the Markets, but I guess if you follow King Street long enough you'll get to North Melbs...

They should've kept the roof of that old stand in the pocket and used that as the roof for the gym, because what's there now is just ugly. The rest of the stands are brutalist as well, and always look dreary, dank, and freezing but at least they were home to some AFL football and have history.

I always like keeping things as you've found them. There are other people interested in the same realms as you, who'd appreciate the little signals of previous life you do. But the clubs are seemingly very choosy about what to preserve. Even at Vic Park, which should be modelled in the rest of the country for how to redevelop historically meaningful ovals, has a few issues: the scoreboard was demolished because it was cheaper than redoing it; the fences torn down and signage removed or painted over, and some turnstiles totally torn down as well as an entire outer. So I do wish I could go down one night and take some little trinkets because you don't know when they'll be taken down by someone else.

Personally, I reckon someone will log onto BF one day and post in here about the old Glenferrie Social Club being torn down on the week prior. It's been rumoured by the council to be their next big project. Hopefully the Hawks salvage some stuff from inside, I reckon they will, but there'd be some things consigned to skip bins that I'd love to grab. I hope they turn that area into a nice, open park for the Swinburne uni and residents, too.

The Henderson Pavilion is where that Gym and Bar is in your pictures. The cricket club used it over summer before they got booted to a nearby oval. Tabarat means pokies venue and you can just make out Kangas Kasino next to it, but I have no idea about the nightclub history behind that place.

It's criminal what happened to the scoreboard at VIC Park. Originally when the development was granted it was on the proviso that the scoreboard was to be kept, but it had to be moved three metres because it was blocking pedestrian access supposedly :rolleyes:. Obviously due to it being left to rot it was in no condition to be moved. There is a great site called www.victoriapark.net.au where I read about this.

That Ferguson Pavilion at Glenferrie has been talked about as being condemned but they haven't done anything about it for years. It looks decent on the inside but an eyesore on the outside

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Teagueeee15

Premiership Player
Sep 15, 2004
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I always like keeping things as you've found them. There are other people interested in the same realms as you, who'd appreciate the little signals of previous life you do. But the clubs are seemingly very choosy about what to preserve. Even at Vic Park, which should be modelled in the rest of the country for how to redevelop historically meaningful ovals, has a few issues: the scoreboard was demolished because it was cheaper than redoing it; the fences torn down and signage removed or painted over, and some turnstiles totally torn down as well as an entire outer. So I do wish I could go down one night and take some little trinkets because you don't know when they'll be taken down by someone else.

I was looking through my Vic Park Pictures and there were more signage realms there than I had remembered. I went past on the train recently and the big magpie is back on the back of the Bob Rose grand stand (no picture unfortunately). I think it's an excellent and classy tribute to the history of the place, unlike Princes Park which sadly looks messier than a cheap brothel.

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Cole Dammett

Backyard Cricket Hero
Apr 7, 2007
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Man I get so jealous seeing all these pictures you guys have of VFL grounds, it just isn't the same at the SANFL grounds here.
 

Oval Avenue

Draftee
Sep 2, 2014
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10
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Joined the forum just for this thread. I'm massively into ground porn as well and love the romance associated with old suburban grounds. To me, they resemble the true spirit of the game when football clubs were pillars of a local community and that tribal aspect was the heartbeat of football. Anyway, it's a bygone era. I'm only 22 so I'm disappointed to have missed the best of it.

I spend a lot of time in Melbourne and I've lived there a bit over the last three years - having grown up and since come back to SA - and I've done the grand tour of almost all of the grounds. Punt Road was locked up the day I went there, Waverley will require a day in itself and I'm saving Kardinia Park for an actual game (be nice if Carlton actually get sent there this century).

My pics are not much different to what's already posted here so I won't share them. I would like to go back to them all with a DSLR though. There are some amazing photos around online which were seemingly taken just before a lot of the grounds underwent partial demolition. A vague concept in my head is to film a doco of sorts going around the grounds but I fear it may be slightly too late to really produce such a thing. A shame - especially as since the late 90s/mid 2000s when a lot of history was erased, football clubs, much like society in general, have rediscovered their love of nostalgia.

Not that suburban romance is totally dead. The other week I went to watch Port Adelaide v Norwood at Alberton. I think the crowd was just over 4,000 - plenty of red and blue as well as black and white, a tough contest and everything beautiful about local footy was on show. I notice the Footscray game at Whitten Oval on the weekend was quite a throwback to the good old days too.
 

Teagueeee15

Premiership Player
Sep 15, 2004
3,861
2,698
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Joined the forum just for this thread. I'm massively into ground porn as well and love the romance associated with old suburban grounds. To me, they resemble the true spirit of the game when football clubs were pillars of a local community and that tribal aspect was the heartbeat of football. Anyway, it's a bygone era. I'm only 22 so I'm disappointed to have missed the best of it.

I spend a lot of time in Melbourne and I've lived there a bit over the last three years - having grown up and since come back to SA - and I've done the grand tour of almost all of the grounds. Punt Road was locked up the day I went there, Waverley will require a day in itself and I'm saving Kardinia Park for an actual game (be nice if Carlton actually get sent there this century).

My pics are not much different to what's already posted here so I won't share them. I would like to go back to them all with a DSLR though. There are some amazing photos around online which were seemingly taken just before a lot of the grounds underwent partial demolition. A vague concept in my head is to film a doco of sorts going around the grounds but I fear it may be slightly too late to really produce such a thing. A shame - especially as since the late 90s/mid 2000s when a lot of history was erased, football clubs, much like society in general, have rediscovered their love of nostalgia.

Not that suburban romance is totally dead. The other week I went to watch Port Adelaide v Norwood at Alberton. I think the crowd was just over 4,000 - plenty of red and blue as well as black and white, a tough contest and everything beautiful about local footy was on show. I notice the Footscray game at Whitten Oval on the weekend was quite a throwback to the good old days too.

Footscray VFL have been a massive success. The official crowd was something like 7,120 on the weekend and when I saw the Northern Blues play there in the H & A season the crowd was over 3,000.

I think a ground documentary would be good if you were able to get access inside the change rooms, board rooms, social clubs, gyms and the like because these are rarely accessed by the public.
 

Silent Alarm

sack Lyon
10k Posts
Jul 9, 2010
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A documentary would be a very cool idea. My dream is a nicely shot on about the Clairefontaine soccer academy in Paris. Just something in my head. But I've always thought someone like Vice could've done a nice little, crisp looking video on soccer grounds. The interest is applicable to everyone who likes the sport and adored by a sub-section bigger than you'd expect.

Everyone likes grounds, really.
 

Silent Alarm

sack Lyon
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Jul 9, 2010
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What's the pronunciation of 'Princes Park?'

I've always said and intended to say 'Princess Park,' simply because 'Princes' sounds essentially the same when conjoined with 'Park.' About a month ago I was talking about it to some people who weren't hugely clued up on Optus Oval, and they were calling me out for arguing it was pronounced as 'Princess.'

I'll stand correct. But can anyone give me an origin of the name? Much like most of Melbourne and old Australia, I can understand the regal vibe, but why is it plural but not possessive? It's just awkward. If you were to name it prince as a general noun, then sure, but surely it's the park for all the British Princes? As in, it's for them... Princes' Park, Prince's Park...

Also, did anyone go to the Big Day Out there in 06/07?
 
May 31, 2008
5,696
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What's the pronunciation of 'Princes Park?'

I've always said and intended to say 'Princess Park,' simply because 'Princes' sounds essentially the same when conjoined with 'Park.' About a month ago I was talking about it to some people who weren't hugely clued up on Optus Oval, and they were calling me out for arguing it was pronounced as 'Princess.'

I'll stand correct. But can anyone give me an origin of the name? Much like most of Melbourne and old Australia, I can understand the regal vibe, but why is it plural but not possessive? It's just awkward. If you were to name it prince as a general noun, then sure, but surely it's the park for all the British Princes? As in, it's for them... Princes' Park, Prince's Park...

Also, did anyone go to the Big Day Out there in 06/07?

I'm pretty sure it's pronounced "Prince's". People who say Princess are either lazy or don't know any better I think.
 

Gibbsy

Cakewalk
Oct 12, 2009
23,614
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Geetroit
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Collingwood
What's the pronunciation of 'Princes Park?'

I've always said and intended to say 'Princess Park,' simply because 'Princes' sounds essentially the same when conjoined with 'Park.' About a month ago I was talking about it to some people who weren't hugely clued up on Optus Oval, and they were calling me out for arguing it was pronounced as 'Princess.'

I'll stand correct. But can anyone give me an origin of the name? Much like most of Melbourne and old Australia, I can understand the regal vibe, but why is it plural but not possessive? It's just awkward. If you were to name it prince as a general noun, then sure, but surely it's the park for all the British Princes? As in, it's for them... Princes' Park, Prince's Park...

Also, did anyone go to the Big Day Out there in 06/07?

Princes as in "Prince's". Just like the highway
 

RogersResults

Premiership Player
May 7, 2009
3,174
1,370
Wagga Wagga
What's the pronunciation of 'Princes Park?'

I've always said and intended to say 'Princess Park,' simply because 'Princes' sounds essentially the same when conjoined with 'Park.' About a month ago I was talking about it to some people who weren't hugely clued up on Optus Oval, and they were calling me out for arguing it was pronounced as 'Princess.'

I'll stand correct. But can anyone give me an origin of the name? Much like most of Melbourne and old Australia, I can understand the regal vibe, but why is it plural but not possessive? It's just awkward. If you were to name it prince as a general noun, then sure, but surely it's the park for all the British Princes? As in, it's for them... Princes' Park, Prince's Park...

Also, did anyone go to the Big Day Out there in 06/07?
'Princes Park' was named in honour of Queen Victoria's first son -Albert Edward, Prince of Wales, later King Edward VII.

The smallest park in Britain is also named for him (but with a possessive apostrophe).
http://www.lichfielddc.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=984
 

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