Certified Legendary Thread The Random Non Footy Chat Thread - General Non Footy talk

[Anzacday]

Low crime rate
High living standards
High levels of education
Freedom of speech
Our cities are regularly voted most liveable on Earth
Excellent infrastructure
Free from an oppressive government
Safe from war
Clean water is easily accessible
Fairer treatment of Women
A World class Health care system
Boy oh boy.. do I need to go on?
Compare Australia to Africa, The Middle East, India, Asia and most of Europe and it really is no contest, if you think Australia isn't a great country you're simply wrong. Literally only a handful of countries on Earth who can claim they are "better"

And without appearing flippant - THE AFL!

 

[Kappa]

Do you think the program will show white people killing Aboriginal people?

You still haven't answered the original question, which is why showing Aboriginals hunting is disgusting and racist?

 

[jmac70]

Low crime rate
High living standards
High levels of education
Freedom of speech
Our cities are regularly voted most liveable on Earth
Excellent infrastructure
Free from an oppressive government
Safe from war
Clean water is easily accessible
Fairer treatment of Women
A World class Health care system

Boy oh boy.. do I need to go on?

Compare Australia to Africa, The Middle East, India, Asia and most of Europe and it really is no contest, if you think Australia isn't a great country you're simply wrong. Literally only a handful of countries on Earth who can claim they are "better"

You have completely missed my point.

 

[Kappa]

You have completely missed my point.

You asked me to tell you why Australia is a great country, and I did.

What is your other point?

 

[jmac70]

You asked me to tell you why Australia is a great country, and I did.

What is your other point?

Do you ever consider how people who are less fortunate might view this country?

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Do you ever consider how people who are less fortunate might view this country?

What country doesn't have less fortunate people?

 

[jmac70]

You still haven't answered the original question, which is why showing Aboriginals hunting is disgusting and racist?

The promo shows Aboriginal people throwing spears. It does not show what they are throwing spears at. It is the only reference to Aboriginal people in the promo. Do you think this is an accurate portray of Aboriginal people?

 

[Kappa]

Do you ever consider how people who are less fortunate might view this country?

You mean the people living off one of the most generous welfare systems on Earth? I'm sure plenty of them aren't happy... and what on earth does that prove? Australia has unhappy citizens? We'll gee that proves it then, we're a crap country. Not like other countries have those people too

 

[jmac70]

What country doesn't have less fortunate people?

So does that make it ok to treat them like s**t?

 

[jmac70]

You mean the people living off one of the most generous welfare systems on Earth? I'm sure plenty of them aren't happy... and what on earth does that prove? Australia has unhappy citizens? We'll gee that proves it then, we're a crap country. Not like other countries have those people too

No worries Tony, good luck with The Senate.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

So does that make it ok to treat them like s**t?

No.

But I can't see how you've drawn that conclusion from a documentary showing Aboriginals throwing spears.

 

[Kappa]

The promo shows Aboriginal people throwing spears. It does not show what they are throwing spears at. It is the only reference to Aboriginal people in the promo. Do you think this is an accurate portray of Aboriginal people?

Do you think a 1 second clip of Steele Sidebottom sling tackling a North Melbourne player is an accurate portrayal of the AFL?

It's a 30 sec promo that has to show Australia's ENTIRE HISTORY, and you want them to accurately portray one of the oldest cultures on Earth in that time? (plus fit in everything else) Wow.

They showed a part of Aboriginal culture, hunting, which just so happens to be one of the biggest parts.. as that is how the aboriginal people survived for thousands of years, and how many still live today. You are still yet to explain why this is racist and disgusting

 

[jmac70]

No.

But I can't see how you've drawn that conclusion from a documentary showing Aboriginals throwing spears.

You need to learn about the real history of this 'great' country. It is founded on genocide.

 

[Kappa]

No worries Tony, good luck with The Senate.

Ah okay, I state the fact (not opinion) that we have a generous welfare system, relative to the rest of the world, and I must be a huge Tony Abbot fan. Not the first time you've drawn an outrageous conclusion lately.

So does that make it ok to treat them like s**t?

So because we don't do everything perfectly, let's forget the fact we are world leaders in most, if not all, measurable areas of living standards internationally and bemoan what a horrible country we are.

 

[jmac70]

Ah okay, I state the fact (not opinion) that we have a generous welfare system, relative to the rest of the world, and I must be a huge Tony Abbot fan. Not the first time you've drawn an outrageous conclusion lately.



So because we don't do everything perfectly, let's forget the fact we are world leaders in most, if not all, measurable areas of living standards internationally and bemoan what a horrible country we are.

Happy with the asylum seeker policy?

 

[TheFreshBanana]

You need to learn about the real history of this 'great' country. It is founded on genocide.

2 parts to this:

Just because of "this", how does that mean a documentary can't show an Aboriginal throwing spears? Do you mean it's not representing a true detail of events?

Secondly, I would think that despite our "real history", we can move forward without forgetting, and that we can learn from it and ultimately make amends. I know through uni there is a LOT of attention paid on Aboriginal culture.

I think it is irrelevant, pointless and unhealthy to let the past weigh us down.

 

[jmac70]

2 parts to this:

Just because of "this", how does that mean a documentary can't show an Aboriginal throwing spears? Do you mean it's not representing a true detail of events?

Secondly, I would think that despite our "real history", we can move forward without forgetting, and that we can learn from it and ultimately make amends. I know through uni there is a LOT of attention paid on Aboriginal culture.

I think it is irrelevant, pointless and unhealthy to let the past weigh us down.

During a break in the tennis channel 7 showed another very short grab of the program. The first scene was of Aboriginal people throwing spears and the second was of a digger in the trenches. The intent of the imagery was unmistakable. Even Bruce noticed it.

Aboriginal culture is now a feature of uni education which is great. It's just a shame that government policy doesn't follow suit.

 

[Kappa]

You need to learn about the real history of this 'great' country. It is founded on genocide.

So Australia can never be a great country because 200 years ago English Settlers killed Aboriginals? That logic.

No one will suggest that genocide isn't terrible, but it's just as silly to suggest Australia hasn't grown into a fantastic place since. If you go back far enough in history there isn't a country on Earth who hasn't killed others for some reason.
Does this mean every country is forever dragged down by sins of the past, despite what actions have happened since? Of course not.

Happy with the asylum seeker policy?

You really don't seem to get it. Your logic is because we aren't perfect at everything we aren't a great country, which is just nonsense.

Now for the question you seem determined to avoid, why is Aboriginals throwing spears racist and disgusting?

 

[jmac70]

So Australia can never be a great country because 200 years ago English Settlers killed Aboriginals? That logic.

No one will suggest that genocide isn't terrible, but it's just as silly to suggest Australia hasn't grown into a fantastic place since. If you go back far enough in history there isn't a country on Earth who hasn't killed others for some reason.
Does this mean every country is forever dragged down by sins of the past, despite what actions have happened since? Of course not.



You really don't seem to get it. Your logic is because we aren't perfect at everything we aren't a great country, which is just nonsense.

Now for the question you seem determined to avoid, why is Aboriginals throwing spears racist and disgusting?

Australia has never dealt with our history. We cannot even recognise Aboriginal people in the constitution let alone agree on a treaty. Until this happens we will never reconcile our past. Portraying a stereotypical image of Aboriginal people as spear chuckers is racist because it reinforces a view of Aboriginal people as primitive.

 

[Kappa]

Australia has never dealt with our history. We cannot even recognise Aboriginal people in the constitution let alone agree on a treaty. Until this happens we will never reconcile our past. Portraying a stereotypical image of Aboriginal people as spear chuckers is racist because it reinforces a view of Aboriginal people as primitive.

Okay, so when showing the history of Aboriginal people we should just lie about what they did, or instead just show nothing for fear of being labelled as racists? That's a great direction to head. "No children, Aboriginal people never hunted with spears, that's racist." Racism and showing history are very different things, which you are getting mixed up.

Reconciling the past is a lot more complicated than putting meaningless words on paper that change nothing. It's about reducing the education gap between white and aboriginal Australians, reducing the differential in health care and providing more employment opportunities, as well as any of the other many programs the Government is running. THAT'S how you reconcile the past, not by putting a word on a piece of paper, and I'm pretty sure Australia is doing just that. Action, not words.

 

[ottoman]

Low crime rate
High living standards
High levels of education
Freedom of speech
Our cities are regularly voted most liveable on Earth
Excellent infrastructure
Free from an oppressive government
Safe from war
Clean water is easily accessible
Fairer treatment of Women
A World class Health care system

Boy oh boy.. do I need to go on?

Compare Australia to Africa, The Middle East, India, Asia and most of Europe and it really is no contest, if you think Australia isn't a great country you're simply wrong. Literally only a handful of countries on Earth who can claim they are "better"

I would go one step further Kappa and say overall no country can say they are better.

 

[ottoman]

Sorry Jmac but you got this one wrong.
I totally agree with you that there are many wrongs which need to be made right regarding Aboriginal people. This will take a long time as the early settlers and the generations after them wiped out a culture. However unlike most countries which do such things at least Australia is owning up to it. Partly because of people like yourself. This is a good thing.
However showing an Aboriginal throwing a spear is not racist. Especially when a lot of Aboriginals still feel a bond to the land and their traditional culture. Actually spears and boomerangs and shown off all the time in their dances. I don't think it is something which they are ashamed of. Quite the opposite I think they are proud of their ability to live off the land.
However if the program is trying to show Aboriginals as being uncivilsed primitive people then you have a point. But from the sounds of it they are just showing Aboriginal culture.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Sorry Jmac but you got this one wrong.
I totally agree with you that there are many wrongs which need to be made right regarding Aboriginal people. This will take a long time as the early settlers and the generations after them wiped out a culture. However unlike most countries which do such things at least Australia is owning up to it. Partly because of people like yourself. This is a good thing.
However showing an Aboriginal throwing a spear is not racist. Especially when a lot of Aboriginals still feel a bond to the land and their traditional culture. Actually spears and boomerangs and shown off all the time in their dances. I don't think it is something which they are ashamed of. Quite the opposite I think they are proud of their ability to live off the land.
However if the program is trying to show Aboriginals as being uncivilsed primitive people then you have a point. But from the sounds of it they are just showing Aboriginal culture.

Was going to chime in but thought better of it this time. All I'll say is that I get frustrated by people making decisions and chiming in on something that they know nothing about and trying to manage "What's right for the people" from thousands of km's away in the midst of these luxuries we have. This isn't directed to anyone on this board as open debate is interesting to see peoples views. Some of these so called experts who claim to be helping progression should have a look at the wider problems facing Aboriginal people both living in remote communities with some traditions still alive and kicking and those living, or trying to live in a society that is moving so quickly they fail to keep up, be accepted or accept themselves progress.

It's so complex where there isn't a one solution fits all IMO.

If the Aboriginal people are happy to have their cultures and past recognized and portrayed as this clip supposedly does then who are we to argue. FWIW I'm happy to have my past portrayed with ANZAC's fighting for what we have right now - something I'll always be proud of and grateful.

 

[ottoman]

Was going to chime in but thought better of it this time. All I'll say is that I get frustrated by people making decisions and chiming in on something that they know nothing about and trying to manage "What's right for the people" from thousands of km's away in the midst of these luxuries we have. This isn't directed to anyone on this board as open debate is interesting to see peoples views. Some of these so called experts who claim to be helping progression should have a look at the wider problems facing Aboriginal people both living in remote communities with some traditions still alive and kicking and those living, or trying to live in a society that is moving so quickly they fail to keep up, be accepted or accept themselves progress.

It's so complex where there isn't a one solution fits all IMO.

If the Aboriginal people are happy to have their cultures and past recognized and portrayed as this clip supposedly does then who are we to argue. FWIW I'm happy to have my past portrayed with ANZAC's fighting for what we have right now - something I'll always be proud of and grateful.

2 points I would like to make
Firstly I may be thousands of miles away at the moment but I did live in FNQ for 10 years and as I am sure you are aware there is a very large Aboriginal community in those areas so I do have some first hand experience regarding some of the issues they face.
Secondly I would never make any assumptions regarding what needs to be done to help solve the issues related to Aboriginals. It is not my place to presume what needs to be done. My belief is that we need to listen to the Aboriginal community and act on what they want. Not tell them what is good for them.
Liked your post by the way. This post is not against your points. I agree with you. Just clarifying some of my thoughts.

 

[NT.Thunder]

2 points I would like to make
Firstly I may be thousands of miles away at the moment but I did live in FNQ for 10 years and as I am sure you are aware there is a very large Aboriginal community in those areas so I do have some first hand experience regarding some of the issues they face.
Secondly I would never make any assumptions regarding what needs to be done to help solve the issues related to Aboriginals. It is not my place to presume what needs to be done. My belief is that we need to listen to the Aboriginal community and act on what they want. Not tell them what is good for them.
Liked your post by the way. This post is not against your points. I agree with you. Just clarifying some of my thoughts.

Please don't think that this is anyway directed at you, jmac70 Kappa or anyone else on here, because it certainly isn't and wasn't meant to be.

It's more at these higher profile and influential lobbyist and activist and also towards policy makers and the government that haven't seen first hand or listened to the needs or wants of Aboriginal people across a range of demographics. The problem is that there are a large number of Aboriginal people that would like opportunity and assistance to be able to contribute and interact with the rest of Australia and there already is. But at the same time there are a large number of people that want their simple life of customs and remoteness and to feel connected to the land and than there are those that want a portion of both. We can't stereotype the Aboriginal culture or people as across Australia they have all had to deal with a range of combined and separate issues. The Aboriginal community differs right across this country and so do their individual needs and wants to some degree IMO.